I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

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    Rynn
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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Rynn on Tue May 29, 2012 4:07 am

    DoughGuy wrote:Its just something like Havel's has such high reductions it doesn seem like you could get that much damage in.
    I still do 38 damage per chip, with no viable form of retaliation unless you are a spear user.
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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue May 29, 2012 4:08 am

    Ok.


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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Rynn on Tue May 29, 2012 4:13 am

    Also, Havels shield is rare as ***. You never see it. Most other greastshields have crap for magic res, and overall, greatshields are a rarity I'm not caused to face all too often.
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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue May 29, 2012 4:17 am

    The solution really is to not let the build get anywhere near you.


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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Quarik on Tue May 29, 2012 4:28 am

    This is pretty terrifying. I've never seen a build like this, but it seems like the only counter would be a very good pike user that kept TWoP attuned as well.


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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Rynn on Tue May 29, 2012 4:30 am

    Similarily, I'm considering running this build in the nearby future.
    http://tinyurl.com/7363ovc
    I don't think I need to explain that.

    Quarik: I actually had a spear user do that. The fun thing about the darkhand, is trying to block with it results in massive knockback, easily clearing you of the range of TWoP to escape.
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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Quarik on Tue May 29, 2012 5:05 am

    That's interesting. If there was enough lag in the fight I don't doubt a pike could destroy anything, but under most circumstances that's amazingly powerful. There are ways around it (see: DMB+PW+RTSR+Anything), which can deal such an absurd amount of damage even through a shield. Also, if someone initiated an exchange they might be able to stunlock through 77 poise. A high-poise scythe could work if the user was really good.

    As Pirate said, you just have to keep it away from you. A parry master could probably take it out at close range, but otherwise getting close would spell your doom.

    Actually... back on the TWoP+Spear concept, if they spam TWoP and spear pokes your buff will run out, and then if you try to counter the spam to make sure that doesn't happen you either have to walk through a crapton of damage from the spear or get close enough to hit them with WoG. If the spear user casts GMB the WoG and DMB are mostly negated, and if you combine that with Havel's Greatshield you have A) High stability to prevent guard break, B) Enough magic resistance to make WoG and DMB a joke, and C) A nice wall to hide behind while you stab them with a spear. Also, let's not forget Stoneskin. You'd have to tank a lot of damage to use it, but you could stunlock with immunity if you had it active.

    Sorry about the fragmentation, this was very much typing whatever came to mind.


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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Rynn on Tue May 29, 2012 5:12 am

    Quarik wrote:That's interesting. If there was enough lag in the fight I don't doubt a pike could destroy anything, but under most circumstances that's amazingly powerful. There are ways around it (see: DMB+PW+RTSR+Anything), which can deal such an absurd amount of damage even through a shield. Also, if someone initiated an exchange they might be able to stunlock through 77 poise. A high-poise scythe could work if the user was really good.

    As Pirate said, you just have to keep it away from you. A parry master could probably take it out at close range, but otherwise getting close would spell your doom.

    Actually... back on the TWoP+Spear concept, if they spam TWoP and spear pokes your buff will run out, and then if you try to counter the spam to make sure that doesn't happen you either have to walk through a crapton of damage from the spear or get close enough to hit them with WoG. If the spear user casts GMB the WoG and DMB are mostly negated, and if you combine that with Havel's Greatshield you have A) High stability to prevent guard break, B) Enough magic resistance to make WoG and DMB a joke, and C) A nice wall to hide behind while you stab them with a spear. Also, let's not forget Stoneskin. You'd have to tank a lot of damage to use it, but you could stunlock with immunity if you had it active.

    Sorry about the fragmentation, this was very much typing whatever came to mind.
    SLB backup buffs for Great Magic Barrier.
    Also TWoP lasts about 10 seconds. I'll exchange blows the first time, then never give them the breathing room to re-cast it. The strategy is certainly your best bet at countering mine, but at that point the skill of the players starts mattering more, and without trying to brag, it's no exageration to say I'm better then a good chunk of the players you could match me against... so I'm liable to just parry him while he tries to turtle, or to just outright win the slugging match.

    (Daggers have nearly no recoil time inbetween a swing and a parry. I usually stop and try to parry the second swing; the one that causes me to be stunned.)
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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue May 29, 2012 5:15 am

    Just a couple of final things, I read that above 76 poise you get stunlocked by WoG rather than getting blown away, if im right how do you deal with that?
    And what happens if (god forbid) your buffs run out?


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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue May 29, 2012 5:28 am

    True. at 77 poise wog stunlocks, a clever caster could keep you that way in a similar vein to chain bsing


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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Rynn on Tue May 29, 2012 5:31 am

    DoughGuy wrote:Just a couple of final things, I read that above 76 poise you get stunlocked by WoG rather than getting blown away, if im right how do you deal with that?
    And what happens if (god forbid) your buffs run out?
    Block canceling is your friend, but even if I fail that, the second WoG knocks me down.
    If all my buffs run out, you've lived too long. If you're not too agressive, I bow and drop 3 humanities.
    If you're too aggressive I chainstab you with the rapier and accept the hatemail that comes along with it.
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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Quarik on Tue May 29, 2012 5:31 am

    Umm... On our second encounter after you kicking my *** via these unsavory (they kinda are) tactics, I'd watch you cast DMB, I'd cast GMB, and then as you casted SLB I'd attempt to destroy you.

    For the TWoP- I guess I'm missing something here (also, I think TWoP lasts 15 seconds, not sure though), but if we cast TWoP at the same time, you either stay in my TWoP and die (or spam WoG), or you block and leave. In either situation, you can't touch me. I recast TWoP just before it runs out (I assume you can do that, I've never used it), and we continue for 60 seconds until your buff runs out. When that happens, most of your damage is gone, you can't effectively chip through a shield, and a good player won't give you anything resembling a chance to rebuff. Then I have an advantage in range, damage, and I can turtle more effectively than you can with your rapier.

    Dough- This is fact. Unfortunately, it makes you more susceptible to WoG spam.

    And here I thought I'd get some extra sleep and go to bed at 2. This thread is really making me think... However, I value my sanity. Good night!


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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Rynn on Tue May 29, 2012 5:42 am

    Quarik wrote:Umm... On our second encounter after you kicking my *** via these unsavory (they kinda are) tactics, I'd watch you cast DMB, I'd cast GMB, and then as you casted SLB I'd attempt to destroy you.

    For the TWoP- I guess I'm missing something here (also, I think TWoP lasts 15 seconds, not sure though), but if we cast TWoP at the same time, you either stay in my TWoP and die (or spam WoG), or you block and leave. In either situation, you can't touch me. I recast TWoP just before it runs out (I assume you can do that, I've never used it), and we continue for 60 seconds until your buff runs out. When that happens, most of your damage is gone, you can't effectively chip through a shield, and a good player won't give you anything resembling a chance to rebuff. Then I have an advantage in range, damage, and I can turtle more effectively than you can with your rapier.

    Dough- This is fact. Unfortunately, it makes you more susceptible to WoG spam.
    TWoP can't be re-cast until it wears off. It would be truly broken if it could be. What I capitalize on in that situation is putting the pressure on you during those last 45 seconds. WoG isn't too big of a dissuasion for me as a result of having gankers use it too often.

    Re-buffing is actually insanely easy to do in the middle of a fight, the first moment a person rolls in the oppoisite direction as I attacked, I pop the buff. Even if you immediately roll back, you can't reach my back, and I can tank a blow to the front with that much HP without worrying. This also assumes every player I'm fighting has faith and is set up with someone like myself specifically in mind. The fact of the matter is 75% of builds are gonna get caught with their pants down by this one, and only 5% will have the tools to do anything but dodge until my buffs wear out.

    No build is infallible, if I was trying to be absolutely impossible to kill, I'm be insane. (If I succeeded I'd have broken game balance).


    Unfortunately, it makes you more susceptible to WoG spam.
    I personally think that's fortunate. It's a tool vs Gankers, and it also gives a weakness to "flipping tank builds", as well as a general weakness to tanking whatsoever.

    EDIT: 75% and 5% are pulled out of my ***... I don't keep statistics on builds I fight.
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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue May 29, 2012 5:59 am

    For the most part, Rynns build is competitive at best. I will point out though that great great hammers and ultra great swords could slam you to the ground with running attacks and bs you as you stand, a fatal combo in more than 1 case. My 80 would do 2400 that way, unbuffed.


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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue May 29, 2012 6:01 am

    Oh, I mean as you try to rebuff.


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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Wisp on Tue May 29, 2012 6:06 am

    I don't know how fast the painting guardian sword swings relative to the dagger, but if the speed is comparable, it has bleed.
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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Rynn on Tue May 29, 2012 7:27 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:Oh, I mean as you try to rebuff.
    That makes much more sense.
    I'll look into the painted guardian swords and see what I find whisp.
    Although don't they swing much slower unless you two hand it? I'm currently using my dagger one handed and parrying.

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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Wisp on Tue May 29, 2012 7:44 am

    I'm not sure, i've never used daggers. Out of the weapons i've used they have fastest swing speed both 1 and 2 handed. And yes their swing speed does increase when you 2 hand them.

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