Any downside to leveling up?

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    JoDK

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    Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by JoDK on Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:09 am

    Hi all,

    I'm sorry if this has been asked before but I'm quite new to this game and only played a few hours of Demon Souls. There's something I'd like to know : I just don't see the reason why people don't lvl up. Is there any drawback?

    I see on many forum that players either only increased their stats to meet the weapon requirements or even don't lvl up at all. What's the point? Why not put more point in STR if you are using a weapon that scales with STR (well at least as long as you get a good tradeoff).

    Is there somethign I'm missing? I know you don't have to be a high lvl character to beat the game and PvP made me realise that even low lvl character can be quite powerful but still, I don't understand why you would refrain yourself from getting stronger. :S
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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by Tolvo on Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:12 am

    Who you can connect with is based upon your level, so if you become too high of a level you cannot play online with others easily. 120 is the common PvP level, meaning for PvP everyone can easily connect with one another at that level.

    EDIT: Also, welcome to the forum.
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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by JoDK on Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:19 am

    Thanks for the quick reply!

    I was already aware that PvP (and coop too I think) was lvl related.

    Execpt for the challenge, would that means that players stay at low lvl but get good equipement so they can likely kill other players more easily to farm humanity?

    And why is lvl 120 the "key lvl"? Is it related to the souls cost increase?

    Thx for your help!


    Last edited by JoDK on Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:26 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by Tolvo on Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:19 am

    No problem, glad I could help.
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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by Rin on Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:22 am

    Yes yes...Welcome to the brotherhood 8)
    As Tolvo said sl 120 is probably the best for pvp and co-op... I dont know if im right but i think the higher your sl the harder the enemies hit


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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by Tolvo on Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:24 am

    Enemy damage is based upon what NG you are in, not health.

    EDIT: I had a typo error which caused me to post some misinformation, I have corrected it.


    Last edited by Tolvo on Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by ublug on Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:08 pm

    JoDK wrote:And why is lvl 120 the "key lvl"? Is it related to the souls cost increase?
    Level 100-120 is kind of where a build comes together, if you know what I mean. At that level you have enough health and stamina to wear good equipment and survive a few blows, and you also have enough stats to maximize your damage dealing stat. And if you wan't to build a hybrid then you must make sacrifices, usually to either health or stamina.
    If you start to go above 120 your character becomes all purpose, and PvP would quickly loose its charm if all characters were equal. Level doesn't really matter for PvE and co-op, but you'll most likely see fewer players to summon or help at higher levels.
    The cost is also an issue. I think the cost for each level passses 100,000 at level 125, so leveling up a pvp character above 120 becomes too expensive, or time consuming.
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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by Tolvo on Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:09 pm

    Let's just say in regards to cost, my FC toon has 60 million souls on him at level 120, and I can only level up about forty times.
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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by meridam99 on Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:20 pm

    Great thread, moving to the player help section.


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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by Ironliftr3 on Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:32 pm

    Good questions and tips. I've been struggling with this as well. My current character is faith based and sl 63. I've done all but the final battle, and not sure where to go with it. I also have a intel based sl 90 in the same situation.

    My first character got to the second play through (I guess that's NG?), all but he final battle at sl 120, but it was my "I don't know what the hell I'm doing" character where I leveled faith and intel equally.

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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by PPG-3- on Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:57 pm

    Too much focus on the 120 SL. There's still lots of action at the higher levels. I know this keeps coming up...I was at one point against it but once I got higher you dont stop seeing signs, you don't stop getting invaded, and your ability to invade or be invaded through Forest Covenant or Darkmoon Covenant can keep you very busy. And the PVP is still very competitive at that level. All players should experiment with 1 high level character. It adds to the community as a whole in my opinion.
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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by Buggy Virus on Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:13 pm

    I normally don't even reach the 120 range, I normally get bored of my very strictly built characters after I get through NG+ and already feel they have enough stats in all their areas.


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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by BLA1NE on Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:19 pm

    There's another point I feel hasn't been explained much yet, in regards to low-level characters rather than just SL120: invaders. At low levels, it's much more efficient to level up your gear than your stats. Like you said in your OP, you can get ridiculously strong gear at starting level. But if you level up, on the other hand, at low levels you'll get destroyed by people who leveled up their gear rather than their stats.

    Also, Darkwraiths invade up. So if you level up, you'll still get invaded by the low level darkwraiths with ultra-powerful gear, and despite your higher stats you won't have a fighting chance. On top of that, you'll open yourself up to being invaded by more people because you'll be a higher level, and they'll also have ridiculous gear.

    So by keeping your level low, you cut down on the amount of people who can invade you, and by leveling up your gear instead you give yourself a better fighting chance where you would really have none at all otherwise. As much as possible, stay low and go with elemental weapons, until you can start leveling really quickly and then take full advantage of stat scaling.


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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by JoDK on Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:07 pm

    Great, you guys gave me all the information I was looking for. It will help me with my future characters!



    thx a lot!
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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by Tolvo on Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:08 pm

    Always a pleasure to help out.
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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by Sebastrd on Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:38 pm

    BLA1NE wrote:There's another point I feel hasn't been explained much yet, in regards to low-level characters rather than just SL120: invaders. At low levels, it's much more efficient to level up your gear than your stats. Like you said in your OP, you can get ridiculously strong gear at starting level. But if you level up, on the other hand, at low levels you'll get destroyed by people who leveled up their gear rather than their stats.

    Also, Darkwraiths invade up. So if you level up, you'll still get invaded by the low level darkwraiths with ultra-powerful gear, and despite your higher stats you won't have a fighting chance. On top of that, you'll open yourself up to being invaded by more people because you'll be a higher level, and they'll also have ridiculous gear.

    So by keeping your level low, you cut down on the amount of people who can invade you, and by leveling up your gear instead you give yourself a better fighting chance where you would really have none at all otherwise. As much as possible, stay low and go with elemental weapons, until you can start leveling really quickly and then take full advantage of stat scaling.

    No offense, but I think this logic is highly overrated. It's perfectly feasible to explore areas hollow, then "humanize" just to summon helpers for the boss. In fact, unless you're specifically looking for PvP, I think it's a waste of humanity to do otherwise.
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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by BLA1NE on Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:08 pm

    It's also perfectly feasible to do the whole game hollow without summoning helpers for bosses, so what's your point? What I said is it's better to be low level with great gear than high level with poor gear. You disagree with that?


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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by Sebastrd on Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:08 pm

    I didn't say I disagree. I said staying low level to avoid griefers or unbalanced PvP is overrated.


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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by callipygias on Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:03 pm

    JoDK wrote: I don't understand why you would refrain yourself from getting stronger. :S
    I don't either. My main character just keeps going and going, currently level 372. Obviously he's pve only, but I have 9 other characters set up for different co-op areas.

    At NG+ 50ish, and with such outrageously high stats, I can switch to any weapons/armor combos I want, most of which are fully upgraded at this point. It's really great to be so unlimited in what you can do with a character.

    The only negative I can think of is the one Blaine already mentioned, that if you go human you'll get invaded. On the plus side you're SUPER strong against invaders. Besides, the low-level, no-invasion soul level would have to be REALLY low, like... sl20 or under, I'd think, and I for one am not good enough to go through NG+infinity at SL20!


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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by BLA1NE on Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:30 pm

    ^I wouldn't attempt NG+infinity at SL20 either! But I did say once you have good gear and can level up fast, that you should do so then. In NG+ and beyond you get a boatload of souls from PvE, so you can level up really fast at that point. With good gear, it's really not unreasonable for almost anyone to beat NG under SL30 (minimal wielding stats for an elemental weapon, maxed armor, plenty of Vit and the Ring of Fap; almost anyone can beat the game under SL30 like that). Then you're in NG+ and you can level up really fast. You'll already have decent Vit and maxed armor, all you need is a regular +15 weapon (which you could already have made in NG) and you can start pumping scaling stats, and you're ready to take on NG+ and griefers at the same time.


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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by lextune on Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:30 pm

    Many good points here. I would just like to reiterate one; imo everyone should have at least one toon that they just keep leveling....

    I have 8 capped builds at different levels, for different purposes, (Anor invasions, Anor coop, Blightttown coop, 120 PvP etc.etc.). But I have 2 toons that I just keep leveling.

    My first guy, who was of course a mess of a build because I never played Demon Souls, (I'm on xbox), and I played through completely blind, (no wiki, no youtube, no advice at all), so every time I found a new weapon or spell that seemed like it might be cool I raised stats needed to use it. Well, months later after I know what I am doing, I don't want to abandon him, so up and up he goes, lol. He is into NG+7 now I think, and at level 306. I still get invaded of course, but surprisingly I learned that I can still actually invade! My last two run throughs I have left the Burg open, and found that there is some serious high level PvP there.

    And then there is my dragon. I have no plans to stop leveling him up....and he needs it, lol. I have run through the game much faster with him so he is also into NG+6 or 7 I think, but being naked makes him very vulnerable, He needs every stat he can get. silly He is currently at level 189 and was just 2 shotted by the Capra Demon in the lower burg. I don't remember the last time I lost to him.

    Point is that high levels can still be fun, and are still quite active, don't abandon the caps altogether, but have a high level toon or two as well.

    happy


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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by BLA1NE on Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:44 pm

    ^I very much agree with that, too. I always say everyone should try everything they can get their hands on in this game--weapons, spells, etc.

    I have a grossly over-leveled character too I used to use as guinea pig for making new builds. I'd equip everything I wanted on him (he has all the gear and spells in the game, and can use them all too) so I could know what stats I needed my new build to have. This isn't as important anymore since we have such a great build planning tool at our disposal now (http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/), but that is essentially what I used to use that character for before this planner was released.

    And even though we have the planner now, words and numbers on screen don't make up for in-game experience. A weapon can slightly outdamage another, but it's the moveset that's important, and unless you've tried both for yourself you won't know that by using a planner. So trying everything is still very important.


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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by bla on Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:57 am

    Probably has been asked before but I couldn't find it.
    It's not completely off-topic as well so I hope the OP won't mind me asking:
    Do enemies really hit harder if you have more vitality?
    I've never did a super vitality build but some meele builds of mine do have some, and sometimes I get the feeling I get big chunks taken away NG or NG+ etc.
    Can somebody confirm it?
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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:59 am

    Your vitality does not dictate how much damage an enemy does. What level of NG you are on does.

    Let's say an enemy hits for ten, and you have one hundred health. So ten hits and you are dead. Now raise your health to two hundred, they still hit for ten.

    Now, if you go into NG+, in this example, the enemy suddenly hits for fifty. Meaning you'll have to bump your health up even more to survive more. So, damage done is based off of NG, not your health.

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    Re: Any downside to leveling up?

    Post by bla on Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:01 pm

    Right, tanks. Just wanted to clear that up.

    And yeah ng+ and more hits harder indeed.

    Was trying my newly aquired dragon form going up from blightown's swamp to firelink in ng7 I believe and those club wielding bastards went to town much to my surprise and shame.

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