Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Share
    avatar
    Back Lot Basher
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 984
    Reputation : 34
    Join date : 2012-01-18
    Location : Canada

    Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:32 pm

    Most people in PvP are pretty mobile. It's not hard to evade someone with a weapon buff until it runs out. Doesn't this end up being a huge handicap if you like to use buffs? Or do people who buff just go for the throat right away and hope they get the jump?
    avatar
    Carphil
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 4921
    Reputation : 90
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 21
    Location : Brazil

    Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Carphil on Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:58 pm

    It's not hard to evade someone with a weapon buff until it runs out.

    What is the diference between evading someone with buff and without buff?


    _________________
    It may take a day or ten thousand years, but I will find her. This is a promise.

    I'm not the chosen one, I'm the one who chose to be more.

    Carphil_BR on PSN :bas:
    avatar
    Back Lot Basher
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 984
    Reputation : 34
    Join date : 2012-01-18
    Location : Canada

    Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:00 pm

    Carphil wrote:
    It's not hard to evade someone with a weapon buff until it runs out.

    What is the diference between evading someone with buff and without buff?

    I just mean that if you can evade someone who has buffed their weapon, and it runs out, they won't have as much attack power. Darkmoon blade only gets one use, so if the enemy doesn't take you out fast, their opportunity is gone.
    avatar
    Carphil
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 4921
    Reputation : 90
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 21
    Location : Brazil

    Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Carphil on Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:05 pm

    Yes but you can still kill without buffs. Scaling will be aways better than anything else, buffed or not. So when you buff, you have a 60/40 chance to win. When the buff wears off, you have 50/50 to win.


    _________________
    It may take a day or ten thousand years, but I will find her. This is a promise.

    I'm not the chosen one, I'm the one who chose to be more.

    Carphil_BR on PSN :bas:
    avatar
    RANT
    Tyler Durden
    Tyler Durden

    Posts : 7779
    Reputation : 268
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Location : Winterfell

    Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by RANT on Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:27 pm

    and you still have the spells from either faith or int like wog or hcss. i have slb and wog attuned on my str/fai toon but i never use them.


    _________________
    Night gathers, and now my watch begins.
    I am the sword in the darkness, I am the watcher on the walls, I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realm of men.
    I pledge my life and honor to the knight's watch for this night and all the nights to come.
    avatar
    Scudman_Slayer
    Obsessed
    Obsessed

    Posts : 595
    Reputation : 4
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 25
    Location : you'd like to know that wouldn't you?

    Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Scudman_Slayer on Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:21 pm

    don't forget the fact that lag gets mixed in it and you end up getting hit out of the nowhere when the guy wasn't even close to you


    _________________
    "Give in to the darkness"

    "Accept its powers"

    "stay out of the light"

    "and become my puppet!"

    "even if you resist as long as you hold dark powers each life you take will bring me close to owning you completely!


    *this plays*

    "you cannot escape,once you have been chosen to be host you cannot turn around and refuse me...i will make you my puppet!"
    avatar
    Toastfacekillah
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 173
    Reputation : 5
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Location : Sydney, Australia

    Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Toastfacekillah on Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:32 pm

    Carphil wrote:Scaling will be aways better than anything else, buffed or not.

    See, this is what I don't get. My +15 unbuffed iaito (A dex scaling) never does as much damage as my +5 Chaos (+10 humanity) Iaito at 45 dex.


    _________________
    PSN - Mister_Carnage. Add me if you like.
    avatar
    Carphil
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 4921
    Reputation : 90
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 21
    Location : Brazil

    Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Carphil on Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:34 pm

    Toastfacekillah wrote:
    Carphil wrote:Scaling will be aways better than anything else, buffed or not.

    See, this is what I don't get. My +15 unbuffed iaito (A dex scaling) never does as much damage as my +5 Chaos (+10 humanity) Iaito at 45 dex.

    Because of the humanity, chaos is an exception. The rest, all elementals, will do less damage. I mean, there is a thread about this, or just ask the guru.


    _________________
    It may take a day or ten thousand years, but I will find her. This is a promise.

    I'm not the chosen one, I'm the one who chose to be more.

    Carphil_BR on PSN :bas:
    avatar
    Shakie666
    Obsessed
    Obsessed

    Posts : 445
    Reputation : 12
    Join date : 2012-01-24
    Location : Nowhere you've heard of.

    Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Shakie666 on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:13 pm

    Err... i don't know about you, but my elemental weapons (including chaos) all do more damage than any of my weapons that rely on stat scaling. My highest level toon is sl202, and the most powerful stat scaling weapon i have on that is a Divine greataxe +10 which does 752 damage one handed with 50 str, 40 dex + 50 faith. A lightning greataxe +5 does 777 damage. Plus most enemies have far higher resistance to magic damage than lightning... can you see where i'm going with this?

    Also, Carphil, could you point me to that thread you mentioned? I would like to read it.


    Last edited by Shakie666 on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    ChizFreak
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2388
    Reputation : 135
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Location : Eye of Terror

    Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by ChizFreak on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:16 pm

    Most people carry a backup elemental weapon to use when their buffs fades off.


    _________________
    ChizFreak
    A.K.A
    The Ninja Assassin - 1st Leeroy Cosplayer
    Master Backstabber - Daddy Long Legs


    PSN ID: ChizFreak - Steam ID: ChizFreak - YT: http://www.youtube.com/user/ChizFreak
    avatar
    Carphil
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 4921
    Reputation : 90
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 21
    Location : Brazil

    Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Carphil on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:27 pm

    This is really true? ALL my scaling weapons without buffs does more damage than elementals at higher levels. Chaos, divine and enchanted are exceptions because they have something called: SCALING. Chaos scales with humanity. Divine with faith and enchanted with magic. I'm talking about fire and lightning.


    _________________
    It may take a day or ten thousand years, but I will find her. This is a promise.

    I'm not the chosen one, I'm the one who chose to be more.

    Carphil_BR on PSN :bas:
    avatar
    retention_sb
    Newbie
    Newbie

    Posts : 20
    Reputation : 0
    Join date : 2012-01-17

    Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by retention_sb on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:29 pm

    Toastfacekillah wrote:
    Carphil wrote:Scaling will be aways better than anything else, buffed or not.

    See, this is what I don't get. My +15 unbuffed iaito (A dex scaling) never does as much damage as my +5 Chaos (+10 humanity) Iaito at 45 dex.

    pine resin? no one ever uses it eventhough it provides an advantage without needing fith/int. what could be better than a bleed weapon with rotten pine resin.


    _________________
    troling tongue
    avatar
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee

    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 25
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:32 pm

    Car can you give me the thread where it says this in detail?

    Though I agree, never understood the rage about fire/lightning weapons, I always have either divine/occult if im faith or Chaos for any other build as backup..

    I find elemental underwhelming in my view though


    _________________
    PSN and other stuff:
    PSN: HolyPK9 "You are free to sever the chains of fate that bind you"

    Sage Andarta, Founder of the Crystal Seekers; The Noble Knights

    Principal GremSay of the Karmatic Gremlin Gang

    Moderator of the Wiki Chatroom- Come join the fun  cheers

    PRAISE. THE. SUN. lol!
    avatar
    Toastfacekillah
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 173
    Reputation : 5
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Location : Sydney, Australia

    Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Toastfacekillah on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:34 pm

    retention_sb wrote:pine resin? no one ever uses it eventhough it provides an advantage without needing fith/int. what could be better than a bleed weapon with rotten pine resin.

    As with the OP, most people just avoid you until it wears off. Poison isn't worth it as its effects are so weak - If it wasn't for the bar on the screen, I wouldn't even notice if someone poisoned me.


    _________________
    PSN - Mister_Carnage. Add me if you like.
    avatar
    Carphil
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 4921
    Reputation : 90
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 21
    Location : Brazil

    Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Carphil on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:35 pm

    I cant find the link, it was a Blaine thread! Maybe is in the old forums, but I do remember something about this. Gonna search all Blaine's threads


    _________________
    It may take a day or ten thousand years, but I will find her. This is a promise.

    I'm not the chosen one, I'm the one who chose to be more.

    Carphil_BR on PSN :bas:
    avatar
    strangejoy
    Obsessed
    Obsessed

    Posts : 557
    Reputation : 43
    Join date : 2012-01-17

    Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by strangejoy on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:36 pm

    I think the real disadvantage is that it takes a long time to apply a buff (the buff animation is really long). Some people will allow you to buff, and some won't.


    _________________


    Dedicated forestwraith.
    avatar
    retention_sb
    Newbie
    Newbie

    Posts : 20
    Reputation : 0
    Join date : 2012-01-17

    Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by retention_sb on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:39 pm

    As with the OP, most people just avoid you until it wears off. Poison isn't worth it as its effects are so weak - If it wasn't for the bar on the screen, I wouldn't even notice if someone poisoned me.[/quote]

    i was never implying that pine resins would not be avoided, i was just simply stating that pine resins can be largely stacked and puts you on middle ground with the people that chose other upgrade paths.


    _________________
    troling tongue
    avatar
    ChizFreak
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2388
    Reputation : 135
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Location : Eye of Terror

    Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by ChizFreak on Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:14 pm

    Carphil wrote:This is really true? ALL my scaling weapons without buffs does more damage than elementals at higher levels. Chaos, divine and enchanted are exceptions because they have something called: SCALING. Chaos scales with humanity. Divine with faith and enchanted with magic. I'm talking about fire and lightning.

    I used a Great Club +15, which does 650 pure phys damage, and when buffed does 905 damage, when the buffs fades off I switch to my Chaos Great Axe +5 which does 792 damage. But sometimes it's better to use the Great Club even unbuffed because no one has more than 450 phys defense, so it's 200 damage assured.


    _________________
    ChizFreak
    A.K.A
    The Ninja Assassin - 1st Leeroy Cosplayer
    Master Backstabber - Daddy Long Legs


    PSN ID: ChizFreak - Steam ID: ChizFreak - YT: http://www.youtube.com/user/ChizFreak
    avatar
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee

    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 25
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:22 pm

    chiz did he not say that divine, occult and chaos would all outdamage normal +15 without buff because of their scaling?


    _________________
    PSN and other stuff:
    PSN: HolyPK9 "You are free to sever the chains of fate that bind you"

    Sage Andarta, Founder of the Crystal Seekers; The Noble Knights

    Principal GremSay of the Karmatic Gremlin Gang

    Moderator of the Wiki Chatroom- Come join the fun  cheers

    PRAISE. THE. SUN. lol!
    avatar
    RANT
    Tyler Durden
    Tyler Durden

    Posts : 7779
    Reputation : 268
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Location : Winterfell

    Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by RANT on Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:29 pm

    ChizFreak wrote:
    Carphil wrote:This is really true? ALL my scaling weapons without buffs does more damage than elementals at higher levels. Chaos, divine and enchanted are exceptions because they have something called: SCALING. Chaos scales with humanity. Divine with faith and enchanted with magic. I'm talking about fire and lightning.

    I used a Great Club +15, which does 650 pure phys damage, and when buffed does 905 damage, when the buffs fades off I switch to my Chaos Great Axe +5 which does 792 damage. But sometimes it's better to use the Great Club even unbuffed because no one has more than 450 phys defense, so it's 200 damage assured.

    great club is pretty awesome, specially when buffed. what did you tested on? 40 str?
    avatar
    reim0027
    Moderator
    Moderator

    Posts : 6715
    Reputation : 381
    Join date : 2012-01-28

    Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by reim0027 on Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:09 pm

    Elemental weapons aren't as strong as +15 (for the most part). That is because of split damage reduction. You have 2 different defenses that lower the actual AR for elemental weapons. You can't go by the AR shown on the menu, because it doesn't take into account your opponent's defenses.

    Try an experiment. Go to the Forest and attack the mage. Look at the damage output with a lightning weapon, and compare it to the exact same weapon, but at +15 (if you have both of them). The +15 will win (in most cases).

    So, now you have a +15 weapon that is stronger and can be buffed (making it even better). The main advantage of an elemental is the lack of scaling means you can devote stats elsewhere (namely vitality).

    EDIT: about people letting you buff, I find most will let you buff - if you buff before you bow. Once you bow, many people consider the fight to have started and will attack you if you buff.


    _________________


    PSN usernames: reim0027_2,   reim0027_3,  and reim0027_5.  Skype ID: reim0027  
    Tour of Lordran Soul Levels  //  Official Wiki Fight Club // Forest Invasion Soul Levels // Low Level Invasion Rules
    avatar
    Blazefury
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 139
    Reputation : 1
    Join date : 2012-01-23
    Age : 31
    Location : Brazil

    Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Blazefury on Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:14 pm

    Fought a couple fellas using the Sunlight Blade buff, half of them didnt evade me. They RAN away. "Unfortunately", I had to switch to the BKGA.


    _________________
    PSN - leandropuc86, you can add me.
    Toons:
    SL 108 Pyromancer - VIT/END and +10 Fire Gargoyle Halberd
    SL 123 Warrior - STR/Faith Hybrid, +15 Man-Serpent Greatsword/Sunlight Blade

    Sponsored content

    Re: Don't weapon buffs have a huge downside?

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:59 am