Consider me officially hollowed. Also a poll

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    How often do you see a PvP player who does not use the Dark Wood Grain Ring?

    [ 0 ]
    0% [0%] 
    [ 1 ]
    4% [4%] 
    [ 1 ]
    4% [4%] 
    [ 1 ]
    4% [4%] 
    [ 9 ]
    33% [33%] 
    [ 8 ]
    30% [30%] 
    [ 7 ]
    25% [25%] 

    Total Votes: 27
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    Reaperfan
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    Consider me officially hollowed. Also a poll

    Post by Reaperfan on Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:56 am

    DISCLAIMER: I am posting this with the sole intention of venting frustration. I am not attacking anybody or anything, and do not want to start a flamewar, though if somehow this sparks actual discussion that's fine. I don't even know if what I'm saying will completely make sense because I'm thinking pretty wildly right now, and in hindsight will probably look back at this and realize I am just plain wrong on some things. This is just an announcement from me, drawn out in the form of a disgruntled rant.

    Something has snapped in me. Anybody who's known me here for a significant amount of time will know what this is. I haven't had much of a problem with it until recently when I thought back to all the times I've encountered other players in the past few weeks. Whether it be random invasions, summons for duels, or hosts I've invaded, in the past few weeks I've seen about 6 people who didn't use the Dark Wood Grain Ring, and 3 of those were under the 25% equip load, so their fighting style was no different from someone using it. I've seen 1 medium weight roller, and about two >50% players, all of which were hosts I invaded and were clearly playing the game for the first time.

    Then I realized the ways this has impacted the metagame, beyond it just being a broken singular item...by rereading our own FC rules. I respect our community, love it in fact. It's the only other entirely online community I've ever felt genuinely attached to besides my first Linkshell in Final Fantasy XI. It is because of this that I respect what we consider to be, as a community, worth disallowing in honorable fights. But by looking at what we chose and agreed upon as "unfair" in fighting, I realized so many problems with what we prioritize. We seem to have made dueling into nothing but a poke-fest. There is no variety, just players dodging around, fishing for a hit, then backing out to dodge around again, and the DWGR is at the heart of this boring style of fighting. We consider backstabs unfair because they are too easy to accomplish with the ring equipped. We consider spells (except for weapon buffs because those shorten the poke-fests by a considerable amount) unfair because of a single spell, Wrath of the Gods, which happens to be one of the few counters to constantly flipping around fishing for hits. We consider turtling unfair because we can't backstab people out of it due to previously stated reasons, and it elongates fights to the point of boredom as a result. The no healing midfight and bowing before and after are to ensure basic courtesy and signal that you are part of the group, but do not impact the actual style of the match. We have locked ourselves into a static fighting style, reinforced by the advantages the DWGR allows (for what those are, look up any previous posts by me in balance-related threads here or on the old forums, I'm feeling too broken up to repeat those here).

    The worst part is, this is all necessary because of what happens in PvP outside of the honorable duels. People abuse the DWGR to stack poise without losing mobility, making backstab-fishing possible. People abuse the family masks because they all benefit characters with semi-tanky loadouts, which the DWGR allows them to have with no consequences. People abuse Wrath of the Gods because it's the only genuinely effective way to stop backstab spam and dodge-happy pokers, and those tactics are only abused because of the freedom allowed by the DWGR. Nobody uses greatshields because they provide nothing a "medium shield + flip" doesn't.

    Without the DWGR, backstabs would be okay because you'd have to work to get them. Without the DWGR, there would be a reason to wear something without poise. Without the DWGR, there would be variety in shield and armor choice. Without the DWGR, spells would be viable because they wouldn't be so easy to dodge with every build. Without the DWGR, someone could effectively use a build with greater than 50% equip load. Without the DWGR, combat would be interesting.

    Until the day comes that the DWGR doesn't define everything we do with our characters, consider me hollowed. Farewell.


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    Re: Consider me officially hollowed. Also a poll

    Post by Maneater_Mildred on Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:17 am

    sad


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    Re: Consider me officially hollowed. Also a poll

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:27 am

    other playstyles are viable, just not with 'dueling' rules. I don't disagree with you though.


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    Re: Consider me officially hollowed. Also a poll

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:33 am

    Alright Reaper, you definitely need to get some duels in with me. Lately I've been duelling without it unless I am Cosplaying as the Ninja, I've actually even been invading in the forest without it with some success. I think the DWGR can actually be overcome, I'm not a fan of its existence either. In fact recently I've felt like it is a waste of a slot sometimes, when I can have Stamina Regen and the poise from Wolf while keeping my medium roll and decent armor and heavy hitting weapon, I'm not going to waste a slow on the DWGR. Please don't go hollowed friend, reverse hollowfication! Somebody gives him some damn humanity already!
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    Re: Consider me officially hollowed. Also a poll

    Post by CrescentCrux on Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:44 am

    Honestly I think its worse then you think.

    I will admit I do use it, though I don't fish for backstabs against proper pvpers, but I use it for a slightly hidden reason. With some minor trial and error it does seam it sets your Walk/Run speed back up to 0-24% weight, so not only can you roll (with a bigger stam drain then being at that %) It does make you walk faster! Alas walking faster is a minor thing but trust me when your over 50% and every step takes twice as long you will miss it dearly.


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    Re: Consider me officially hollowed. Also a poll

    Post by BLA1NE on Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:56 am

    I never use the ring anymore. But I am always under 25% equip weight, yes. And I feel the same way you do about the PvP style. I've started using piercing swords and, while I enjoy the change, I'm sure I'll get bored of them pretty quickly. It's just dodge-poke-dodge. And throw in a few extra fake dodges so you don't get parried...

    That's why I enjoy my Mage the most in PvP now. It's still a lot of dodging, but at least it's not dodge-poke-dodge.

    I don't really blame the DWGR though. I blame it all on the lag.


    Edit: by the way, I voted 50/50 on your poll... Because there are 2 people in every fight: my opponent, and me--I never use it, they practically always do, 50/50! silly Wait, farmers...


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    Re: Consider me officially hollowed. Also a poll

    Post by Stonedtrooper on Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:25 am

    Maybe you could suggest an anti-DWGR and/or greatshield FC event for one weekend. This would not please the low poise parry or dodge players but it might be interesting as a challenge for everyone.
    Only major issue I see is the majority of players would then switch over to high poise stunlock tank and just exchange hits without dodging at all in a boring slugging fest.


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    Re: Consider me officially hollowed. Also a poll

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:29 am

    Ever since I watched a Demon's Souls youtube vid about a dual kat guy I now avoid the DWGR simply because I want to move like they did. After practicing with the under 25 equip burden I now love how the roll works.

    If you'd fought me at FC today, and I saw your sign a few times, you'd have seen a yellow guy with a massive head rolling like a man ought to.


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    Re: Consider me officially hollowed. Also a poll

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:30 am

    untill they tried to "slug" a mage or power within+ hornets ring+ bandits knife ninja and got insta murderd by a riposte or css.


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    Re: Consider me officially hollowed. Also a poll

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:44 am

    just started using it alot of late... the mobilitys nice but... its kinda hard to control where i go.... should i switch to poise ring? or stamina ring or.... a defense ring?


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