Why Blue Sentinels???????

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    Dark Spirit EliteBiker20
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    Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Dark Spirit EliteBiker20 on Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:50 pm

    Well there goes our hope for no more ganking. I just read the game guide and it looks like one of the covenants will basically force other players to be summoned into your world when you get invaded. Heres what I know:

    If you are in the Way of the Blue covenant and you get invaded by another player, someone who is in the Blue Sentinels covenant will be forcibly summoned into your world to aid you in your fight.

    If you are in the Blue Sentinels covenant, you will be forcibly summoned into another players world whenever they get invaded.

    Basically its a free invitation to gank. I could also see this as being a very annoying waste of time in the game, especially for speed runs. It could also ruin the game in that, depending on where you are when you get summoned, you might not spawn back there if you would die while helping the other player....

    I do not know the full game mechanics, or how they fully plan to implement this idea, but it sounds like trouble no matter how you look at it. What are your thoughts?

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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Frank Poole on Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:05 am

    Speed runs should be played offline anyway. I say bring it.

    Do you think it should be a cakewalk for invaders? If you're invading you should expect the odds to be stacked against you.


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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Dark Spirit EliteBiker20 on Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:15 am

    Frank Poole wrote:Speed runs should be played offline anyway. I say bring it.

    Do you think it should be a cakewalk for invaders? If you're invading you should expect the odds to be stacked against you.
    I completely agree with your perspective of invaders, which is why i never really complained about gankers in the first dark souls. I was mainly just going against it for the sake of everyone else who hates ganking. In all truth though, it is kind of annoying if you run into it constantly.

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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by DarkGerald on Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:40 am

    Well there's a simple solution: don't join this Covenant, don't Invade, stay hollow, live gank-free winking


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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Faraam on Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:49 am

    Well there's a simple solution: don't join this Covenant, don't Invade, stay hollow, live gank-free winking
    Except you can get invaded while hollow now winking

    I think the blue covenant is a great idea, at least if you're an honest gamer trying to get through the campaign without being killed by OP griefer invaders every five minutes. Since you can now be invaded while hollow, the sentinels are a good way of leveling the playing field while also emphasizing how covenant interaction effects gameplay.

    There's always going to be those guys who use it to gank, but ganking is going to happen regardless. The server slots are still limited to two helpful phantoms either way. In fact, I think the time limit on whites and the banishing of blues upon defeating the invader will minimize the appeal of gankfests.

    I'm still hoping for something similar to indictments that can be used by invaders to mark hosts who are ganking or cheating. Or perhaps an item that calls an ally invader that only works if the host has already summoned help. This would ensure more fair fights, notwithstanding the lone wolf invaders who enjoy testing their mettle against multiple opponents. silly

    From a non-ganking perspective, having time limits on phantoms seems like sort of a waste of the new dedicated servers. I co-op'd the entirety of DS1 with a friend of mine, and I encouraged him to explore as much as possible to get the full experience. This often required me to stay in his world for hours at a time, and it was some of the most fun we ever had. It's almost like the devs are punishing us for taking our time.
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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by PyroElleh on Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:10 am

    Was thinking you needed to be wearing a ring while part of the blue sentinels to be summoned into someone's world. (Pretty sure??)  And on the other end of the spectrum, if you did not want help with invaders you could simply not join the blue covenant. (This seems likely??)

    And as far as "invitation to gank" goes (I'm probably going to get flack for this).... I'm thinking the term "ganking" has been a bit overused by some.  Personally, I only think camping around a spawn point for the purpose of trolling an invader as "ganking".  Or possibly camping with a couple of OP buddies.  I don't think the invasion mechanic was ever meant to be used as a friendly fun way to duel.  Not that it can't be, but....

    As someone who is terribly **** at PvP, I know I'm going to be joining the Way of the Blue ASAP.  In DkS1 I could avoid invasions by staying Hollow.  Won't have that option this time.  I know Souls games are meant to be tough, but some players are so far advanced in their skills that you can't possibly prepare for it while "learning" to fight AI opponents.  Those players also tend to be more aggressive and may be more likely to invade. (From my observations, anyhow.)  I don't mind dying to an invader here and there, but if I am constantly getting trolled I probably won't progress much in the quests without a guaranteed helping hand.

    My two cents.  Speculation.  Blah, blah, blah. happy
    Oh new post! Also what Faraam said! lol
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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Reaperfan on Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:27 am

    Ganking is only a problem if you're invading an area where dueling is expected as opposed to raw invasions. If you're looking for a 1-on-1 fighting game then yeah, ganking is bad (though frankly you should probably be playing other games for that experience), but as it's been said in any other situation you should expect to be at a disadvantage.


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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:16 am

    Because there're a lot of people who are afraid of invasions apparently.

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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Serious_Much on Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:28 am

    Not gonna lie, I'm tempted to be in cov that gets me sentinels first playthrough to deter invaders and then black crystal the blue out once invader is dead.

    Since honestly on my first playthrough I want pve mainly, guess I should probably hit offline though if I wanna do that


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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by announakis on Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:19 pm

    you won't have to black crystal the blue, he will be banished once the invader is vanquished anyway

    it is always the same: the mechanic can be great if used by fair players or can become horrible if exploited by the same guys that camp in the burg, summon you through red sign and troll you hard...

    it is not a problem of mechanics

    it is a problem of players mentality. this is a lost cause.


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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by DarkGerald on Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:57 pm

    just so I get it right - in DS2 there'll be no way to prevent being invaded, even when one lives sin-free?? I'd hate that very much, I'm not playing this game for PvP on don't wont to lose progress because of it. I sincerely hope they reconsider this.


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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Faraam on Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:35 pm

    just so I get it right - in DS2 there'll be no way to prevent being invaded, even when one lives sin-free?? I'd hate that very much, I'm not playing this game for PvP on don't wont to lose progress because of it. I sincerely hope they reconsider this.
    That is correct. Invasions happen regardless of status, at least according to EnB. You can always play the game offline though.
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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Dark Spirit EliteBiker20 on Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:51 pm

    DarkGerald wrote:Well there's a simple solution: don't join this Covenant, don't Invade, stay hollow, live gank-free winking
    These covenants that I explained are starting covenants for pretty much every class. I do not know when the first opportunity to join another one will arise. For all we know, you could be stuck in these covenants for a majority of the game.

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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Faraam on Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:37 pm

    You can join the Brotherhood of Blood if you defeat the Executioner's Chariot boss. I think that may be the only accessible covenant in the beta.
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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Dark Spirit EliteBiker20 on Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:17 pm

    Faraam wrote:You can join the Brotherhood of Blood if you defeat the Executioner's Chariot boss. I think that may be the only accessible covenant in the beta.
    i did not know that, mainly because i did not get to play the beta. but even with that option, we dont know what the covenant is even all about. depending on the benefits or consequences, most players could choose to avoid that covenant, if they even know about it in the first place.

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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Faraam on Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:49 pm

    What I know is that it's the equivalent of the Darkwraiths. For each successful invasion, you are awarded a Token Of Spite. These tokens can be used to raise your covenant rank or duel other members of the covenant in order to win their tokens. No word on if Red Eye Orbs will return, but the covenant NPC will sell you cracked ones.
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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by >Brave< on Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:54 pm

    Another thread about how invasions should be fair for the invader. If this is your logic on the matter then you shouldn't be invading or playing online in the first place. Ganking is normally done with friends or people with a similar motive. You'll find gankers everywhere in the forest since that's a free-for-all. The township is a ganker spot because it's popular spot for PvP.

    The blue sentinels are random people that go to worlds and remove the problem. You can only be summoned to another world if two requirements are met.

    - You must have the covenant ring equipped
    - The person must be in the covenant to receive help

    Once the invader dies, the blue spirit returns to their world. This is the equivalent of invasion for the good guys. You're there to prevent the invader from killing the host, not gank for 3 hours then call it a day.

    Since the white phantoms now have a timer, smart invaders can wait them out. I doubt FROM will allow phantom stacking because that would be truly unfair. (Phantom stacking: One host, 2 white phantoms, 1 blue phantom)




    To boil everything down into alphabet soup: We remove invaders with a smile.


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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:29 pm

    Of course all of this could backfire, if blue helpers become the norm then I feel like the random invasion meta will boil down to the invader bumrushing the host to kill him as quickly as possible before the blue phantom summons in.

    If the host is weak, and actually needs the assistance of a blue helper, he'll just die before the blue phantom can get into the fight. If the host can hold his own then blue phantom should be able to get there, so you may wind up with a dynamic where those who actually need the help won't actually be able to get it and those who don't really need it will.

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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:53 pm

    They'll need to work on summon speed. I wore my guardian ring the entire beta and didn't get summoned from it.

    And has been pointed out, it summons a random blue meaning you don't have time to cooperate and strategize, aka "gank." The blue is essentially thrown into the fire and protecting not camping out. And it does seem like victory makes you go bye bye. So some hosts could sit around and hope there's a steady stream of willing blues to help them camp but it's pretty risk. The white sign is still the better option because you can choose who you summon like always. The timer is s nice addition because of this reason.

    Also, what if the blues have an invasion timer like invaders in the first game?As in, after one's summoned it takes x minutes to be able to get another one?


    We don't know everything yet so it's hard to say the end result. What I can say is that, street playing the beta, they've really paid attention to the last game and the community. I'm expecting good things

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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by FexDS on Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:31 am

    I will be joining the Blue covenant and killing any invader into my world as quickly and cheaply as possible.

    If you want a fair fight, join a fightclub. If you invade my world, expect two phantoms and whatever cheap tactics I can come up with to get rid of you asap. That's the way the game is meant to be.

    *I don't sit around waiting for invasions - no interest in pvp.


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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Dark Spirit EliteBiker20 on Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:42 am

    Ok, i see where all of you are basically going with this. Your all assuming that I hate gankers and i want the game to be completely fair. Well that is not the case. I did not fully understand the concept of these covenants, nor did i know about the certain rings you need for them to work. I did not play the beta like i said before, so all my information was coming from bits and pieces of stuff i read on different sites.

    I was simply using the information that I had, which was not fully correct as I have come to realize, to bring about a topic that i know many DS players would have found extremely annoying.

    Now that I have been corrected, there is no need to further this thread anymore. It can be locked now if need be.

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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:08 am

    Dark Spirit EliteBiker20 wrote:Now that I have been corrected, there is no need to further this thread anymore. It can be locked now if need be.
    For my part, I don't understand the hostility directed at you and this thread. I actually agree with you in large part. As I understand it, it appears to me that the system may be highly susceptible to player abuse and will indeed be highly abused.

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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:32 am

    Hopefully, I didn't come across as hostile because it's a great topic. We know there are plenty of players who love them some ganking and this covenant seems like it adds to it. Hopefully an exploration of known mechanics (not really much honestly) can be fruitful.

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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by FexDS on Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:14 am

    I wasn't meaning to be hostile - nor was my "you" directed at the OP

    It's a general "you" for anyone who invades Fexland. silly


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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Dark Spirit EliteBiker20 on Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:20 pm

    i wasnt assuming that anyone was hostile, it just seemed that everyone had some kind of information that countered my thoughts. i have said multiple times now that i did not play the beta, nor did i have all of the correct info. i think some people just like to comment to get the extra posts, even if what they say has already been noted.

    this is not just in this thread, but i have noticed this in just about every thread that i read. if you wish to continue discussing this matter, then please by all means do.


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