Why Blue Sentinels???????

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    Rynn
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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Rynn on Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:13 pm

    I wonder if people will have to continue to wear the ring during an invasion, thusforth making them weaker.
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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Faraam on Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:32 pm

    I'm sure once the sentinel is summoned, they can do a quick ring swap. Unless it's like the fap ring and breaks upon removal. Now that would make things interesting.
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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by >Brave< on Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:45 pm

    Faraam wrote:I'm sure once the sentinel is summoned, they can do a quick ring swap. Unless it's like the fap ring and breaks upon removal. Now that would make things interesting.
    That would make the covenant useless until the next playthrough.


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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Faraam on Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:00 am

    I was thinking removing the ring would count as a penalty that could be atoned for, though that would make the assumption that DS2 uses the "sin" concept. Since the importance of covenants is greater emphasized this time around, I wouldn't be surprised if fealty requires sacrifice. The Brotherhood of Blood ring supposedly has no effects, but I'm willing to bet that there's a hidden game mechanic dependent on wasting that ring slot.

    All that said, I really doubt the ring will be breakable. It was just a fleeting thought.
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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Odinbear on Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:11 pm

    From what I know already, sounds like a way to keep ganking down. No more summoning and just waiting to be invaded..   Summons are timed.  Sweet.     Getting help when invaded, also a cool new mechanic.  No more rushing around panicked , looking for a summon sign, to summon a helper.  Great advancements, if you ask me.


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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Dark Spirit EliteBiker20 on Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:33 pm

    how does that sound like a way to keep ganking down? the player being invaded is getting summon help each time. So no matter what the invader is still facing multiple people.

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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Rynn on Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:11 pm

    The bigger question is why is this a problem?
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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Sneezer on Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:23 pm

    It's not a problem. Invaders have smarter AI enemies to help them out, which blues cannot fight.
    This adds a cool dynamic to invasions, and makes co-op better in general. If you have such a huge vendetta against gankers, learn to fight them. There is no problem with this change.


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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by skarekrow13 on Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:53 pm

    I don't see a huge ganker increase from blues (maybe zero increase actually). The white timer is pretty generous if this beta is an indication. It's still easier and more effective to summon a friend and occasionally have to redo it than it is to get stuck with a random player who may or may not play along AND has the disadvantage of coming in AFTER the invader. Meaning you'll need a heads up blue to come in and immediately make an impact. Using a blue can't be as organized as a gank thanks to randomizing your partner.

    Finally, maybe someone has seen evidence to the contrary but all of the summoning in the game besides the blues forces a terminated connection following success criteria. If the blues do this too then every invader will have a chance of triggering a different blue which is less than ideal for ganking.

    Edit: I just confirmed what I thought thanks to a very helpful individual posting the beta game guide and yes, blues return to their world upon success (the invader is killed).

    So while this can be used to gank it seems a lot less useful than the old method and I'd prefer the unorganized gank of the random blue with a host rather than they have a white buddy that have worked together consistently and MAY have a slight chance of disappearing thanks to a timer

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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:27 pm

    Until the Blue covenant gets filled with wanna-be gankers.. which, while less ideal then controlled ganking, would still be bad.


    I don't see a problem with it though, If you're gonna gank, you're gonna gank, either through a Blue Phantom or a White Phantom. If we want to get rid of Blue, then why not just rid all phantoms.

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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by skarekrow13 on Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:48 pm

    That's actually my thinking. They're gonna do it and from an invader's point of view the blue is preferable since there's no time to coordinate with the host. People who do it will do it regardless (and both games encourage it seemingly) so while there is a different method now it's not like it will change everyone's personality and create new gankers.

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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Leeroy_Jenkins on Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:53 am

    I don't think this has been mentioned but from my beta experience the blue phantoms spawn in preselected spots similar to how invaders spawn. I fought blue phantoms without seeing the host anywhere near and I fought hosts without blue phantoms... All in all i feel it will make invading more fun cause there will be more people to fight 1v1 in any given world unless the fight takes for days, then there is a higher possibility of 2v1 which in the end just equals more fun. cheers 


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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by tenuto40 on Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:19 am

    Hidey ho!

    From the videos I've seen, and with good community engagement, I think this won't be an issue. As it is still in the network test phase, we'll have to see on the 30,000 players to determine how fast you can pull off an invasion. If invasions are going to be as easy as the 5000 player test, then invade to your hearts content!

    To be fair though, the Blue Phantoms are absolutely necessary. It's extremely difficult to progress if you are constantly invaded half-way through by the same OP twinked black phantom. This is the accessibility issue they are trying to address. However, it's a fantastic way, as it requires the community to create this dynamic relationship, of invader/defender/hollow-in-distress, something they wanted to do via the Gravelord, but with no success.

    As a future blue phantom and in an isolated duel: prove your mettle against me and the fate of the host is yours to take!
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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by passivefamiliar on Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:48 am

    considering you can be invaded while hollow.(thats still a thing right?) then this blue phantoms auto summon is a must. playing offline is always an option, but takes away from the game. the randomness of the blues will make it a shot in the dark if they will even make it to help out anyway.

    the timer for whites is still...ify to me, but im ok with it. seems to be long enough so gankers will have to be more active not just sit around for hours.

    fingers crossed for beta today, but already have collectors edition waiting for me.

    not sure which coven i'll join though...cant wait to see what else is new.


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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:31 pm

    tenuto40 wrote:As a future blue phantom and in an isolated duel: prove your mettle against me and the fate of the host is yours to take!
    As a future invader, I'd love it if that's how most blues chose to play. That's 2 fights (provided I get past you silly  ) for the price of one.

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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Seignar on Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:44 pm

    I have no problems with the Blue Sentinels. They are random (in time, spawn and person) and are unreliable for gankers , but very convenient for questers. They can only interact with Invaders and are immediatly cast out upon their defeat.

    It is pretty intresting, the hunter can become the hunted, giving them an "imaginary" time limit to deal with the host to compensate for Whites having a timer.

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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by XuitusTheGreat on Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:58 pm

    maybe I'm missing something but when has there been any evidence that From doesn't want ganking? The time limit is to prevent whites from carrying someone through a level and the blue is designed to help new players, but I mean hell when you fight an npc through Invasion (Lautrec) he doesn't stand there and 1v1 you, he is standing there with two phantoms to gank you. If anything From seems to advocate ganking if nothing else. The blue phantoms show that this is true, as long as you are in the blue cov. you get a summon to help fight a red and you can still easily sit at a bonfire with a white and attack a red 3v1 and should your white time out the blue can distract the red so the host can re-summon the white. From has always stacked the odds against the red, like how reds have to use humanity to heal, as where the host can heal as much as he wants (people just get mad and assume healing is cheap....no it was an intentional game design mechanic to stack odds in favor of the host)

    Also, as a die hard darkwraith this makes me so extremely excited! The best fights are the ganks, when you come out the other end and win a gank....... it is easily the best feeling in dark souls for an avid pvper happy


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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:38 pm

    XuitusTheGreat wrote:From has always stacked the odds against the red, like how reds have to use humanity to heal, as where the host can heal as much as he wants (people just get mad and assume healing is cheap....no it was an intentional game design mechanic to stack odds in favor of the host)
    Well, they did just give the red the ability to also Estus up.

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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by XuitusTheGreat on Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:48 pm

    yes but a phantoms ability to heal with estus is slower than host and invading phantoms have 75% hp to the hosts 100%


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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:52 pm

    I think part of the reason why White's have timers, is for PvE.

    And it would be really really unfair to be invaded by a player with 75% health and strong equipment, while you're at half health and unupgraded.

    I'm hoping for some sort of invasion covenant that hunts down players who get help from Blues. So it triggers a blue, and allows you to fight two at once. (And also allows you to invade with full health too)

    It would be meant to punish those who are relying on blues to get them through PvP.

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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:26 pm

    ok so hp reduced while hollow or in phantom form... everyone can heal with the same items... its pretty much demons souls old system but with a cap on healing as you can only have so many flasks, wanna bet there are damage bonuses for red phantoms like there were in demons souls, heck it might be a covanent benefit, +10% damage while an invader in the red group etc


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    Re: Why Blue Sentinels???????

    Post by befowler on Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:57 pm

    One reason I like the blue sentinels is that in DKS, darkwraiths tend to be the best PvPers. Therefore, the best way to learn and polish your PvP skills I found was not invading, where often you'd get hosts or summons that weren't very good as opponents, but in doing coop and then soloing the invaders. This convenant should let you do that even faster and more effectively by eliminating the long coop runs and randomness of just hoping your host gets invaded. Now you'll get a steady stream of challenging opponents.

    The downside that I saw in the beta was that it took a long time for the sentinels to actually show up in your world, to the point I found and beat several invaders in the time between the sentinel msg and the sentinel actually appearing in the world. That'll need to be much faster.


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