The Claymore and the Bastard Sword

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    Derpwraith
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    The Claymore and the Bastard Sword

    Post by Derpwraith on Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:53 pm

    I have been testing the performance of these two greatswords, they are the same weight and have the same stat requirements. However, I have been comparing the damage these two swords dish out.




    Normal +15: The claymore inflicts 169 damage and the bastard sword inflicts 175 damage on skeletons.




    Crystal +5: The claymore inflicts 194 damage and the bastard sword inflicts 200 damage on skeleton



    Lightning +5: The claymore inflicts 209 damage and the bastard sword inflicts 299 damage on skeletons




    Magic +10: the claymore inflicts 156 damage and the bastard sword inflicts 163 damage on skeletons.




    Enchanted +5: The claymore inflicts 134 damage and the bastard sword inflicts 142 damage on skeletons.




    Divine +10: The claymore inflicts 165 damage and the bastard sword inflicts 173 damage on skeletons.




    Occult +5: The claymore inflicts 140 damage and the bastard sword inflicts 147 damage on skeletons.




    Chaos +5: The claymore inflicts 280 damage and the bastard sword inflicts 185 damage on skeletons.




    The bastard sword is relatively smaller and shorter meaning less reach than the claymore, but it seems that with all upgrade paths (with the exception of fire, I don't have that for them.) the bastard sword dishes out a little more damage than the claymore.




    The only real difference between the claymore and the bastard sword is the reach, damage, and their strong attacks when held with one hand.


     


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    Re: The Claymore and the Bastard Sword

    Post by GrinTwist on Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:39 pm

    The R2 attack for the claymore is usually the reason why people use the claymore over the bastard sword since it can also do thrust damage unlike the bastard sword's R2 attack.

    Also don't forget about the r1,r2,r1 combo that you can use with the claymore that the bastard sword doesn't have.

    The last thing I can think of is that people prefer the range so they can do an unlocked running attack which is effective against a lot of players in PVP.


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    Re: The Claymore and the Bastard Sword

    Post by Sentiel on Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:10 pm

    The hell is wrong with the damage numbers for Lightning and Chaos (forgot Humanity?)? O_O

    Bastard Sword is shorter and lacks both stab attacks of the Claymore, which are great to keep your distance and punish rolls. Bastard could do it as well, because it shares the roll R1 with MLGS, but it's way too short for that. That also affects it's running attacks.
    Lastly, as was already said, it can't combo as well as Claymore. At best you may do a R1 -> R2 and running R1 -> R1 -> R2. Bear in mind that I never did these, it's just a speculation.


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    Re: The Claymore and the Bastard Sword

    Post by Animaaal on Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:00 pm

    The only difference in the reach of the 2 weapons is the Claymore's thrust attack, outside of that, the Bastard Sword seems to hit beyond the tip of the blade, and the Claymore seems to hit at the tip of the blade, thereby giving them both the same reach with a standard attack.

    I tested this extensively before the past 2 or 3 patches. Unless it was patched, which I doubt, this is the only difference in range.
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    Re: The Claymore and the Bastard Sword

    Post by Devokai on Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:16 pm

    No offense intended but this kind of seems pointless as they both have the same scaling but the bastard has slightly higher base damage. These tests just seem like common knowledge as all upgrade paths aside from +15 and crystal (and even in this case they are since they have equal scaling) are generally all relative to base damage.

    Also this is much like sunlight straight sword vs longsword. Everyone uses the longsword because of it's massive combo potential, it's weight and the lack of 8-10 AR is no big deal when the potential to dish 1k+ combos out are there as opposed to the SSS which will never do this unless someone just happens to have a lazy thumb and doesn't mash out. Anyway, clay's r2 poke, and imo the even more valuable 2 hand roll r1 poke are invaluable tools that set it apart from every other great sword regardless of any slight damage penalty.
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    Re: The Claymore and the Bastard Sword

    Post by Sentiel on Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:29 pm

    Bad example. While Sunlight Straight Sword does more damage, it's also heavier. You get damage of the Broadsword with the moveset of the Longsword for that extra weight.
    However, SSS has slower attack animations, just like Darksword and SKSS, which ruins it's combo potential.

    Tested this myself quite recently.

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    Re: The Claymore and the Bastard Sword

    Post by jimmyc0341 on Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:27 pm

    I just started using the claymore because I'm on a kick of trying every weapon out in the game and finding one that's right for me and the claymore is amazing!!! I really really like it especially using the R2 for unlocked PvP. The dead angling is crazy on it. The Bastard sword i havent tried yet but I am looking forward to it. it's really fun testing out other weapons


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    Re: The Claymore and the Bastard Sword

    Post by Devokai on Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:10 pm

    Sentiel wrote:Bad example. While Sunlight Straight Sword does more damage, it's also heavier. You get damage of the Broadsword with the moveset of the Longsword for that extra weight.
    However, SSS has slower attack animations, just like Darksword and SKSS, which ruins it's combo potential.

    Tested this myself quite recently.

     How is it a bad example when you pointed out the exact flaws with the SSS that I did. People use 1 similar weapon over another because of minor flaws that the other doesn't have, which was the point of the comparison.
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    Re: The Claymore and the Bastard Sword

    Post by Jansports on Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:44 am

    The Clay and Bastard weigh the same and aren't as disparate as the longsword and SSS, SSS is in the class of slowest straight swords along meaning it has far less combo potential in addition to it's additional weight.

    A more apt example would be the longsword compared to the broadsword, same weight same scaling, one has slightly more AR at the expense of not having a thrust attack as it's 1hr2. And yet people love the broadsword, this isn't seen with the bastard sword.

    As a small aside I find it odd that the Darksword (what should be the comboiest combo machine of the straight swords) is so dang slow it can't combo it's own special attacks.
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    Re: The Claymore and the Bastard Sword

    Post by ChizFreak on Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:15 am

    Sentiel wrote:Bad example. While Sunlight Straight Sword does more damage, it's also heavier. You get damage of the Broadsword with the moveset of the Longsword for that extra weight.
    However, SSS has slower attack animations, just like Darksword and SKSS, which ruins it's combo potential.

    Tested this myself quite recently.

     Sorry to derail the thread but, Longsword AND Broadsword both can do good combos (stunlock on players)? If so, with which attack? Also does the Sunlight Straight Sword do it too? What about the sword that Oscar uses?


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    Re: The Claymore and the Bastard Sword

    Post by Devokai on Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:32 am

    ChizFreak wrote:
    Sentiel wrote:Bad example. While Sunlight Straight Sword does more damage, it's also heavier. You get damage of the Broadsword with the moveset of the Longsword for that extra weight.
    However, SSS has slower attack animations, just like Darksword and SKSS, which ruins it's combo potential.

    Tested this myself quite recently.

     Sorry to derail the thread but, Longsword AND Broadsword both can do good combos (stunlock on players)? If so, with which attack? Also does the Sunlight Straight Sword do it too? What about the sword that Oscar uses?

     The most common combo is the R2>R2>R1, provided the first advancing r2 animation lands (also this is all talking 2 hand, but the 1 hand does also work) Others are just r1 spams, can get a few of those in before they can break unless a swap out of course. A semi infinate combo w/ the broadsword (timed very well, against someone w/ low poise, and w/o dwgr) is 1 hand r2>r2>r1,slight pause R2>r2>r1 the advancing r2 while 1 handed allows you to catch them out of their roll because of giving them the pause to do so, and it's more effective 1 handed because less stamina provides more follow up attempts. And no the SSS can't do any of this reliably, the most you'll get is a R2>r1 or 2 consecutive R1s.
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    Re: The Claymore and the Bastard Sword

    Post by ChizFreak on Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:48 am

    Devokai wrote:
    ChizFreak wrote:
    Sentiel wrote:Bad example. While Sunlight Straight Sword does more damage, it's also heavier. You get damage of the Broadsword with the moveset of the Longsword for that extra weight.
    However, SSS has slower attack animations, just like Darksword and SKSS, which ruins it's combo potential.

    Tested this myself quite recently.

     Sorry to derail the thread but, Longsword AND Broadsword both can do good combos (stunlock on players)? If so, with which attack? Also does the Sunlight Straight Sword do it too? What about the sword that Oscar uses?

     The most common combo is the R2>R2>R1, provided the first advancing r2 animation lands (also this is all talking 2 hand, but the 1 hand does also work) Others are just r1 spams, can get a few of those in before they can break unless a swap out of course. A semi infinate combo w/ the broadsword (timed very well, against someone w/ low poise, and w/o dwgr) is 1 hand r2>r2>r1,slight pause R2>r2>r1 the advancing r2 while 1 handed allows you to catch them out of their roll because of giving them the pause to do so, and it's more effective 1 handed because less stamina provides more follow up attempts. And no the SSS can't do any of this reliably, the most you'll get is a R2>r1 or 2 consecutive R1s.

     What about the sword Oscar uses? The divine sword you find beneath the zombie dragon in Valley of Drakes.


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    Re: The Claymore and the Bastard Sword

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:18 am

    @Devokai
    Jans answered you for me.
    Thanks Jans. happy

    @Chiz
    I believe Billy is the most qualified to answer this question. big grin

    If you break someone's Poise with Longsword/Broadsword you can use their 2H R2s to dish out some impressive damage. I usually go for rolling R1 -> R2 -> R2 and finish it with a bs. It usually does over 1200 damage. The difference here is that Longsword is easier to catch into those R2s, because it's longer, but it's rolling R1 is a stab, which is harder to land, but punishes rolls more effectively. Broadsword has a horizontal slash rolling R1, which is great to combo people, but requires you got more close and personal than Longsword, which can get you killed if you don't break your opponents Poise with it. The other benefits of Broadsword is it's 1H R2, which is similar to it's 2H version, so it enables you to combo even one handed, which is very useful for no Poise and DWGR builds, plus it helps sticking close to the enemy while maintaining offence, which is essential for landing combos. On the other hand, Longswords stab enables you to keep distance and dish out a surprise attack instead.

    There's bound to be much more combos for these babies, but I mostly use this one in particular.

    Shortsword and Barbed can do this as well, but they're weaker and shorter.

    The rest of the class, either doesn't have the required moves to combo as well - BSS, can do the combos, but has tiny damage - ***...(Astora's Straight Sword lol), or has swing speed slow enough for people to be able to roll away from the combo - SSS, Darksword, SKSS. However SKSS has it's own little combos in it's special R2 attacks, that can be chained into R1s, but that's just a two-hit combo, which is hard to land, because both attacks are vertical and easily avoided.

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    Re: The Claymore and the Bastard Sword

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:19 am

    Comes down to the R2's for me on claymore, the 1HR2 and the rolling 2HR2, the rolling 2HR2 is just made for rolling throw pursuers or dark bead.


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    Re: The Claymore and the Bastard Sword

    Post by billy_bayonet on Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:48 am

    Sentiel wrote:@Devokai
    Jans answered you for me.
    Thanks Jans. happy

    @Chiz
    I believe Billy is the most qualified to answer this question. big grin

    If you break someone's Poise with Longsword/Broadsword you can use their 2H R2s to dish out some impressive damage. I usually go for rolling R1 -> R2 -> R2 and finish it with a bs. It usually does over 1200 damage. The difference here is that Longsword is easier to catch into those R2s, because it's longer, but it's rolling R1 is a stab, which is harder to land, but punishes rolls more effectively. Broadsword has a horizontal slash rolling R1, which is great to combo people, but requires you got more close and personal than Longsword, which can get you killed if you don't break your opponents Poise with it. The other benefits of Broadsword is it's 1H R2, which is similar to it's 2H version, so it enables you to combo even one handed, which is very useful for no Poise and DWGR builds, plus it helps sticking close to the enemy while maintaining offence, which is essential for landing combos. On the other hand, Longswords stab enables you to keep distance and dish out a surprise attack instead.

    There's bound to be much more combos for these babies, but I mostly use this one in particular.

    Shortsword and Barbed can do this as well, but they're weaker and shorter.

    The rest of the class, either doesn't have the required moves to combo as well - BSS, can do the combos, but has tiny damage - ***...(Astora's Straight Sword lol), or has swing speed slow enough for people to be able to roll away from the combo - SSS, Darksword, SKSS. However SKSS has it's own little combos in it's special R2 attacks, that can be chained into R1s, but that's just a two-hit combo, which is hard to land, because both attacks are vertical and easily avoided.

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    Re: The Claymore and the Bastard Sword

    Post by SadPanda on Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:11 pm

    The Claymore and MLGS are overrated. GLGS has great damage and 1 handed stun for minimal stat investment. Abyss Greatsword has insane reach with significantly less stat investment than maxing AR for a 27/40 Claymore. And Flamberge has insane phantom range and combo ability with high dex investment.


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    Re: The Claymore and the Bastard Sword

    Post by ChizFreak on Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:54 pm

    billy_bayonet wrote:
    Sentiel wrote:@Devokai
    Jans answered you for me.
    Thanks Jans. happy

    @Chiz
    I believe Billy is the most qualified to answer this question. big grin

    If you break someone's Poise with Longsword/Broadsword you can use their 2H R2s to dish out some impressive damage. I usually go for rolling R1 -> R2 -> R2 and finish it with a bs. It usually does over 1200 damage. The difference here is that Longsword is easier to catch into those R2s, because it's longer, but it's rolling R1 is a stab, which is harder to land, but punishes rolls more effectively. Broadsword has a horizontal slash rolling R1, which is great to combo people, but requires you got more close and personal than Longsword, which can get you killed if you don't break your opponents Poise with it. The other benefits of Broadsword is it's 1H R2, which is similar to it's 2H version, so it enables you to combo even one handed, which is very useful for no Poise and DWGR builds, plus it helps sticking close to the enemy while maintaining offence, which is essential for landing combos. On the other hand, Longswords stab enables you to keep distance and dish out a surprise attack instead.

    There's bound to be much more combos for these babies, but I mostly use this one in particular.

    Shortsword and Barbed can do this as well, but they're weaker and shorter.

    The rest of the class, either doesn't have the required moves to combo as well - BSS, can do the combos, but has tiny damage - ***...(Astora's Straight Sword lol), or has swing speed slow enough for people to be able to roll away from the combo - SSS, Darksword, SKSS. However SKSS has it's own little combos in it's special R2 attacks, that can be chained into R1s, but that's just a two-hit combo, which is hard to land, because both attacks are vertical and easily avoided.

    you rang?

    Could you explain me a bit about how the Astora's Straight Sword aka Oscar's Sword performs in PvP please happy?


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    Re: The Claymore and the Bastard Sword

    Post by SadPanda on Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:20 pm

    ChizFreak wrote:

    Could you explain me a bit about how the Astora's Straight Sword aka Oscar's Sword performs in PvP please happy?
    Pretty badly, almost any other +10 divine, +5 occult, or +15 straight swords will outdamage it.


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