Anime General Discussion

Yes, but like he said, I'd imagine the west's views on animation as a kids' medium will prevent that from happening. Anime, and by extension animation as a whole, already has evolved into a medium that's willing to tackle any subject under the sun. If tomorrow, that "kids' only" bias disappeared, I think anime would go "mainstream" immediately. But that won't happen, and until it does it won't catch on with the western public.

Video games were extremely nerdy and anything but mainstream barely over 20 years ago.

Give anime one more generation.  However, expect some more "western" material with borrowed inspiration to emerge to meet the extra demand, also.

The writing is on the wall.  Anime following now is much more mainstream and available than 10-15 years ago, where you basically only had stuff like DBZ and Sailor Moon.  What the next generation perceives as normal and acceptable just isn't going to be the same.

The problem with anime is it has to compete with the way animated television is perceived in the west. The fact is in the west it is either a) Kids TV shows or b) Adult comedy shows. I think until a western animated series is made that is mature, serious and heavily story driven and serial then anime won't be seen as anything but the two things i listed above.

Serious_Much wrote:The problem with anime is it has to compete with the way animated television is perceived in the west. The fact is in the west it is either a) Kids TV shows or b) Adult comedy shows. I think until a western animated series is made that is mature, serious and heavily story driven and serial then anime won't be seen as anything but the two things i listed above.

Did you just take that from Gigguk? Because I posted a video earlier about anime becoming mainstream, and that was one of the first things he says.

Lol. I've never even heard of gigguk

Serious_Much wrote:Lol. I've never even heard of gigguk

The guy who does Anime Zone Reviews... He's very fun to watch.

Yeah I don't really do that kinda thing so never heard of it. I kinda just form my own opinions on animes and use popular opinion to decide what to watch

Serious_Much wrote:Yeah I don't really do that kinda thing so never heard of it. I kinda just form my own opinions on animes and use popular opinion to decide what to watch

I normally like to watch people review shows I've already watched. That way I can see the way other people saw it. Look at it from a new view point.

Serious_Much wrote:The problem with anime is it has to compete with the way animated television is perceived in the west. The fact is in the west it is either a) Kids TV shows or b) Adult comedy shows. I think until a western animated series is made that is mature, serious and heavily story driven and serial then anime won't be seen as anything but the two things i listed above.

We have some, but they're always shut down or forced to keep their heads down in order to keep the appearance of a kid's show to stay successful.  Young Justice was able to keep things mature and appropriately serious while maintaining a solid and continuous storyline that kept you invested without feeling the need to tone it down for a friendlier atmosphere.  But it only ran for 2 seasons before being prematurely cancelled, and I can't help but feel it was because people saw it and wrote it off as "just another kid's superhero show" ala Ben 10 or Batman: The Brave and the Bold and so it never got the traffic it needed and deserved.

Then there's the Avatar series which I think are the closest the west has come to a genuine anime-level show, but are still bogged down with that "but we need to make it look like a kid's show so we'll be accepted" kind of feel.  In the first series alot of episodes had "moral of the week" kind ending scenes that really weren't necessary so they could have a MESSAGE moment for the kiddos.  Even with the newest season of the second series, by only episode 5 it's been made clear this is just going to be a political-scandal story just like the first season.  I can't help but feel this is so that people can see it and make it very easy to see "that's the bad guy, these are the good guys so we know who to root for" as opposed to actually making morally ambiguous characters that cause us to actually think about things.

Seriously, Unalaq went from "you all have lost your cultural and spiritual way and so can't help the main character anymore, allow me to help instead" and we were all "woah, this guy has a point, but can we trust him?"  Not but 2 episodes later... :

The west, please stop feeling like you need these kid-filters, and start acknowledging the shows that do so.

Serious_Much wrote:The problem with anime is it has to compete with the way animated television is perceived in the west. The fact is in the west it is either a) Kids TV shows or b) Adult comedy shows. I think until a western animated series is made that is mature, serious and heavily story driven and serial then anime won't be seen as anything but the two things i listed above.

The writers for anime are more experienced with it and the demand isn't high enough for people making other things here to risk their careers deviating from what is currently in demand in terms of production.

However, more people accept anime now than previously.  It's a matter of time.  Higher demand would push more of our own artistic talent in that direction as well possibly.

But the future is hard to forecast.  Anime itself might look very different in 2030 with change in cultural preference in Japan and whatever major technological changes have happened by then.  I'm pretty sure that western perception of animation will drop its kid label within 10-15 years though, though who knows what form that animation will take.

the reason is actually really obvious. japan doesnt do permits that would intefere with daily life, like closind streets as in 28 days later. this would then require extensive cg and gobs of money, or is extremely limiting. thus anime is the logical choice for many programs. the west is comparatively liberal in givin out these permits, so anime isn't as much a necessity for mature programs, getting it religated to kids shows for sillyness and money saving.

Forum Pirate wrote:the reason is actually really obvious. japan doesnt do permits that would intefere with daily life, like closind streets as in 28 days later. this would then require extensive cg and gobs of money, or is extremely limiting. thus anime is the logical choice for many programs. the west is comparatively liberal in givin out these permits, so anime isn't as much a necessity for mature programs, getting it religated to kids shows for sillyness and money saving.

I don't get the reference, but I'll assume you mean permits for disclosing permission to use real-world locations for live-action shooting, and that Japan is more strict in allowing shoots and so it's more expensive to afford a live action production there?

Whether true or not, I don't believe that to be the main reason animation is so big over there as opposed to the west. If the west could break the "kiddy stigma" associated with animation we'd see a massive drop in movies like Man of Steel or The Avengers being made because it's so much more expensive to do live action. In the west the "kiddy stigma" is the only thing that sends things like Batman: Under the Red Hood or Superman vs the Elite straight to DVD rather than getting theatrical releases because studios/producers/whoever-makes-the-decisions-for-movies know that those kinds of animated movies will not draw a wide enough audience to sell tickets.

If those movies DID sell tickets though, studios could save literally millions in production costs by making their movies animated and there'd be no reason for them not to do it. At that point, it would be be bad business and wasted cost to make live action movies instead. Maybe the price gap is smaller in America than in Japan, but that doesn't mean it still wouldn't be cheaper for Americans if that stigma didn't exist. It's not that live-action is cheaper here, it's just that animation is less profitable here. By simply getting rid of that stigma, Japan made animation profitable.

of course they could, but they don't have to, and never have, so kids shows intended to be as cheap as possible are the only ones who do, hence the stigma. its a viscous circle. in japan it's the only way to feasibly make a great deal of their media.

Just finished Toradora!

I'm thinking about watching K-on! next, but I dunno

Anyone got anything?

And yeah, I do prefer highschool anime to actiony mech anime with explosions

To be fair on america, if they can do serious stuff in drama rather than anime I'd much prefer them to. Simply because the acting is always better, emotions and expressions are much better presented with real actors as oppose to in anime and the twists and turns in dramas are far more meaningful to me and the characters also, simply because it's done with actual actors, not 2D drawings.

Much as I like anime, if they started turning something like breaking bad or mad men into anime I'd rather shoot myself than watch them. RL acting will always be a better medium than anime, no two ways about it.

Very excited for monster that it's getting turned into a drama by Guillermo del torro as it really deserved the step up. It's a quality series.

depends. some things just aren't doable irl. imo. eureka 7 is a good example, so is dragon ball/z. an attemp would detract from the quality of the product.

Both mediums have their strengths, and I agree that live action is better for drama pieces.  There's so much that instinctively goes into reading emotions that a real human face can better tell a character moment than anything animated.  When it comes to world settings and action scenes though, animation is usually stronger as it's only limited by the imagination of the artist.  Real life, even with sets and CGI, would have a hard time making things like the witch worlds in Madoka Magica feel aesthetically appropriate.

Latitoast wrote:Just finished Toradora!

I'm thinking about watching K-on! next, but I dunno

Anyone got anything?

And yeah, I do prefer highschool anime to actiony mech anime with explosions

What'd you think of Toradora?  I still haven't gotten around to it myself but I've been curious into trying it out.

As for K-ON! if you're into lighthearted high school stuff I'd say definitely give it a shot.  It's basically what defined the moe genre.  I've only just seen the first season though, so I can't say much about the second season.

Serious_Much wrote:To be fair on america, if they can do serious stuff in drama rather than anime I'd much prefer them to. Simply because the acting is always better, emotions and expressions are much better presented with real actors as oppose to in anime and the twists and turns in dramas are far more meaningful to me and the characters also, simply because it's done with actual actors, not 2D drawings.

Much as I like anime, if they started turning something like breaking bad or mad men into anime I'd rather shoot myself than watch them. RL acting will always be a better medium than anime, no two ways about it.

Very excited for monster that it's getting turned into a drama by Guillermo del torro as it really deserved the step up. It's a quality series.

For me, I would much rather have it as an animation. I tend to prefer the look of an animation then live-action. I just tend to have a preference towards them.

I actually rarely watch anything that's live-action because of that. I just can't stand the look of it.

Latitoast wrote:Just finished Toradora!

I'm thinking about watching K-on! next, but I dunno

Anyone got anything?

And yeah, I do prefer highschool anime to actiony mech anime with explosions

Watamote. It just came out recently, but it's really good.

It's a comedy about a girl who really really wants to become popular.

And I love their opening and ending themes.... They are amazing. 



Don't worry, it's not an action oriented show.

Looking for some members to write up some anime reviews for Fextra

Send me a PM please!

Forum Pirate wrote:depends. some things just aren't doable irl. imo. eureka 7 is a good example, so is dragon ball/z. an attemp would detract from the quality of the product.

Did you see that DBZ live action movie?
I still have emotional scars from watching it.

Sentiel wrote:

Forum Pirate wrote:depends. some things just aren't doable irl. imo. eureka 7 is a good example, so is dragon ball/z. an attemp would detract from the quality of the product.

Did you see that DBZ live action movie?
I still have emotional scars from watching it.

The fact they changed the plot so much and had really bad actors for the leads didnt help..

Animation becomes a better medium as the story leans further from things that are possible in reality.

Shows like DBZ, Batman/Superman/X-Men, series involving heavy usage of magic, and a lot of the more spectacular sci-fi stuff all have more potential creativity in usage via animation than live action. That comes from both a practicality standpoint (budgets to truly do a good Hunter X Hunter or especially DBZ fight scene justice would be enormous) and from a simple suspension of disbelief standpoint (these characters are supposed to have extremely unrealistic superpowers and in some cases bend laws of physics in the literal sense, so separating such from a realistic look in the first place has merit).

Drama based shows with a heavy human element that don't push too far from realism can make more sense in live action. Still, either media can capture this, and live action will lose even here unless the budget or talent scouting picks up good acting.

To illustrate the extremes in my point, something like Death Note (hopefully fixing some of the plot holes/plausibility of choices) or Monster would translate pretty well into live action, as long as the effects could handle the shinigami. Something like Sword Art Online and yes IMO DBZ would be *utterly nonsensical* to even try to do in live action.

Man DBZ pisses me off. So much time spent on nothing, but perhaps just as bad the characters just don't make practical choices very often, and are inconsistent even within their tendency to do so. Suspension of disbelief can only go so far, and DBZ went so much further.

In my opinion x men was actually pretty good.. Especially first class, the new cast they got is pretty impressive.

Yeah death note would make a fun film trilogy probably.. Sadly noone is gonna finance that though.

Serious_Much wrote:Yeah death note would make a fun film trilogy probably.. Sadly noone is gonna finance that though.

Japan did.

Yeah but japans was a) not a trilogy on the original story and b) rubbish