Is Nito the only non-insane Lord?

by ExplodingPenguin Wed May 01, 2013 2:45 am

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Post n°26

Re: Is Nito the only non-insane Lord?

Post by ExplodingPenguin Wed May 01, 2013 2:45 am

Shkar wrote:As his history isn't examined in detail, or even of any kind of importance (currently) in terms of accuracy, I like to think that Nito was originally alive, and when he claimed the lord soul of death he became the way he is.

So, he grabbed the power needed to fight the dragons, and in doing so damned himself to "life" as a skeleton.

That would actually make sense- each of the Lords got a soul that attributed to their specific power that they fought with. The Witch of Izalith- Fire/Pyromancy which she then taught her children, Gwyn who gained Lightning, which he taught to his Knights, the Pygmy, who created the human race and humanity itself and Nito, who gained the power of Death and thus afflicted Everlasting Dragons with it.

I wonder if Nito and the Pygmy knew each other? Humans being the only other kind of Undead?

by DE5PA1R Wed May 01, 2013 12:20 pm

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Post n°27

Re: Is Nito the only non-insane Lord?

Post by DE5PA1R Wed May 01, 2013 12:20 pm

EverlastingRat wrote:Yo DE5PA1R, what made you think of that hypothesis btw, or i guess I'm asking what your thoughts on that is.

Call me pear. Too many numbers and letters and caps to be spelling it out every time.

To answer: I started a new game one day and watched the intro for the millionth time, then it occurred to me that the language introducing Nito was painstakingly, purposefully vague. Then I did some research and found that nothing contradicted the hypothesis. There's not much support either, but it's a nifty thought.

A Fierce Plankton wrote:But i think Nito is a central giant skeleton,and the other smaller ones are just hanging from it.Can't you see his legs during the fight with him?Also when he dies you can briefly see the shadow of a single giant skeleton cast on the ground while his body is vanishing.Also his arms are that of a giant, rather than a mass of small bones, as it should be if he was just a concetration of corpses.

Most of those could be hand-waved by saying they're gameplay mechanics and system limitations. Miyazaki said he was frustrated by how Nito turned out design-wise; he struggled to communicate his idea of what the aura should look like, for example. Or, maybe the main skeleton is simply the chief among chiefs so to speak.

Shkar wrote:As his history isn't examined in detail, or even of any kind of importance (currently) in terms of accuracy, I like to think that Nito was originally alive, and when he claimed the lord soul of death he became the way he is.

So, he grabbed the power needed to fight the dragons, and in doing so damned himself to "life" as a skeleton.

I think I addressed this someplace else recently. The skeletons that compose Nito were long dead by the time he/it/they obtained the Lord's Soul. A dead thing can't up and grab a Lord's Soul. This leads me to believe that Nito's Lord's Soul actually has/had a will or mind of its own which animated the skeletons.

by Sock Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:07 pm

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Post n°28

Re: Is Nito the only non-insane Lord?

Post by Sock Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:07 pm

Nito isn't insane, he's not the only owner of a lord soul that's sane

For instance: Witch of Izalith. She didn't become insane. She was asked by Gwyn to create a new fire to replace the First Flame once it would die down. She tried and failed, instead giving birth to demons. One could say that she died then, but I always like to imagine that she's the thing you kill inside the Bed of Chaos (Not saying she was spawning demons at will, but rather is used as 'fuel' to spawn the demons into the world from the Bed of Chaos).

Gwyn isn't mad, he simply became burnt out and is just a shell of his former self.

Nothing is really known about the furtive Pygmy (Who is or was an owner of a Lord Soul), so you can't say he became insane with surity.

Adding other dudes who has been in contact/owned a Lord Soul or a piece of one, Seath is confirmed mad, and the Four Kings are either mad, or simply drunk with the power of the Abyss.

But neither Seath nor the Four Kings are insane Because of the Lord Soul shards they possess, but rather from another, external force silly

by Latitoast Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:43 pm

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Post n°29

Re: Is Nito the only non-insane Lord?

Post by Latitoast Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:43 pm

Technically the Four Kings aren't insane, they were just corrupted by the Dark.

Nito just wants to chill in his coffin.

by Encore Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:51 pm

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Post n°30

Re: Is Nito the only non-insane Lord?

Post by Encore Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:51 pm

Insanity might come with corruption

by Wilkinson3424 Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:27 pm

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Post n°31

Re: Is Nito the only non-insane Lord?

Post by Wilkinson3424 Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:27 pm

Nito is dead, he has no emotions.

Even if he did have emotions...

We wouldn't know it!
He doesn't have vocal chords.
Or eyes
Or any way of producing tears
Or a real mouth... just bones...

You don't consider insanity an emotion or flaw in the brain?

He doesn't have a brain either.

Insanity: Trying something again and again the same way thinking it will produce different results.

He is sleeping 24/7 , So I guess he probably isnt insane (If that's possible).

by samster628 Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:19 am

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Post n°32

Re: Is Nito the only non-insane Lord?

Post by samster628 Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:19 am

Depends on your definition of sanity

Old Gwyn attacks you on sight which is never a good sign and is clearly but a shadow of his former self and has good enough reason to go mad after burning for so long. On the other hand maybe he seeks to test if you are worthy to light the flame or thinks you are there to extinguish it. Gonna go with mad as if it were the other two you would at least expect some dialogue first.
The which of isilith corrupted herself and her kingdom in chaos and hence became the bed of chaos itself (ever noticed how it looks like a person) and hence became the source of all deamons. it is pretty safe to chaos has corrupted her mind and sent her mad.
The pigmy has gone mad because he couldn't control the power of his ever expanding lord soul and had lost that what was most precious to him (which he probrably used to help keep his power in check).
Seath (not a lord) went mad trying to become immortal which to an extent he managed. All kind of crazy shiz in his home as to show his decentinto madness.
The 4 kings are also a moot point as to weather they are mad or not. The willingly chose to sell out to the abyss and serve it for personal power (old arty did not). Weather the became insane or just complete bar stewards is unknown but i am going to go with the latter however since the 4 kings and seath are not the origional lords (just bearers of fragments) i am going to answer yes to your question.

by Dibsville Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:24 am

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Post n°33

Re: Is Nito the only non-insane Lord?

Post by Dibsville Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:24 am

ExplodingPenguin wrote:

Dibsville wrote:Have to take off the ring mid fight, and you lose everything.
That's because you can't handle the abyss.
Artorias could, as could the Four Kings.

Well...they all went insane, so I don't think they handled it that well.

I know this is like a month late, but Artorias went insane because of Manus, not the abyss.

by Reaperfan Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:57 am

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Post n°34

Re: Is Nito the only non-insane Lord?

Post by Reaperfan Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:57 am

If you ask me, the Witch of Izalith never really went mad. She just happened to create something that possessed her, which is much different than wasting away and going hollow. Actually, had she been able to control the Chaos Flame, I doubt she (or any of the other gods) would have ever gone hollow because they'd always be able to simply make more fire to keep their age going instead of having to use their souls as fuel.

by samster628 Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:38 am

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Post n°35

Re: Is Nito the only non-insane Lord?

Post by samster628 Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:38 am

A fair point

by hey its andres Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:06 am

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Post n°36

Re: Is Nito the only non-insane Lord?

Post by hey its andres Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:06 am

Seath is insane, no question about it. The Witch of Izalith is not insane per se, but she is definitely being possessed by the Bed of Chaos. This possession does cripple her to the point that she may as well be insane (although the BoC does limit her power...). The Four Kings are insane, but mostly because they've become part of Manus' chaotic hive mind: The Abyss. I would definitely not consider Nito to be insane especially due to the fact that you can make a covenant with him early on. I'm sure he only attacks you once your receive the Lordvessel because he is weak and he knows you're a chosen undead. I mean, if you were weak and in a hospital bed and a friend of yours walks up to you with a sword pointed at you, then you'd probably flip out and try to impale him with your gravelord greatsword. Same thing with Nito Shrug

by TheMeInTeam Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:13 pm

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Post n°37

Re: Is Nito the only non-insane Lord?

Post by TheMeInTeam Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:13 pm

Dibsville wrote:

FirstOfTheDead wrote: There is something i don't get...Pinwheel took some of his power...but when I battled him he was weak..i mean I finished him in 3 strikes on first PT....If he stole power from Nito, why is he so weak?

And yeah, Nito as dead as he is...he is indeed the sanest Lord! I mean he is just standing there doing the heck we know...not trying to take over the world or something "wild"!

Pinwheel is an optional first boss, he's not meant to be killed so late in the game.

I've heard this said many times but I don't buy it for a second. Pinwheel himself is easy, but there's really no chance a rookie player will stumble down there and beat him first. It would take a determined player and likely a souls veteran to take out pinwheel before going the taurus demon route.

I would argue just reaching him is comparable to getting the very large ember. Experienced players can do this right from "go" pretty easily, but it's not really viable to expect someone in a first playthrough to bother attempting it, or even to know about it.

Most rookies would probably just bash the skeletons down, see them get back up and kill them, and give up. Very few would notice the shortcuts without a guide.

It's kind of like saying Quelag is an "optional first boss" with the master key. She, too, is pretty easy, especially if you bowlock her after summoning mildred. But who's going to reach her going there 1st as a new player? For that matter even moonlight butterfly could be a first boss, and is barely any harder than pinwheel.

by Dibsville Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:52 pm

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Post n°38

Re: Is Nito the only non-insane Lord?

Post by Dibsville Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:52 pm

He is an optional first boss; I.E., you don't need any specific items to get to him, much like the Tauros Demon. While it's true that rookie players may not be able to get to him right away, he is still optional nonetheless. Quelaag IS NOT an optional first boss. Why? Because she requires an item in order to become your first boss.

Also, you're able to go down there as soon as you have the Divine Ember, and it just so happens that the next boss after the Moonlight Butterfly is the one that triggers Reah's group.

Coincidence? Patches is in the Catacombs if you go there before Reah's group.

It's planned out so that you can go down there as soon as you've beaten the Moonlight Butterfly. And IME, with a Divine Weapon +0, Pinwheel can be relatively difficult. While he's not hard, he's on par with all the other bosses at the time. Somewhat difficult, but still easily defeated if you know what to do.

Everyone says Pinwheel is easy because they usually fight him after Anor Londo, when in reality he's supposed to be fought after the Moonlight Butterfly.

by δelta Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:36 am

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Post n°39

Re: Is Nito the only non-insane Lord?

Post by δelta Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:36 am

Hmm... Seath lost his mind over the scales of the everlasting dragons. The Witch of Izalith, I would argue, was not insane... she and her daughters were simply absorbed by the Bed of Chaos, and if you want to apply the question of sanity to fire, you won't find an answer. Gwyn went nuts because he completely lost his soul and set it to fry for a long time.

The Four Kings... I think they are not necessarily insane, just power-hungry. Consider, Kaathe offers them Lifedrain, which is basically absorbing humanity for power on an escalating scale. Suddenly, everyone they were supposed to rule becomes potential upgrade points... so they spawned Darkwraiths as part of an effort to gather more power at a higher rate. Kaathe even says "they were strong, but saw not the truth" i.e. chose to ignore it in the favor of something tangible. Basically what happens if you dole that sort of power out to anyone on the street.

Nito, on the other hand... we don't know enough to say if he's sane or not. Consider - he was asleep for a very long time, someone broke through his roof, he woke up and went "KILL!!!!!!" Again, the question remains if your concept of sanity can be applied to "the first of the dead".

by Encore Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:12 pm

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Post n°40

Re: Is Nito the only non-insane Lord?

Post by Encore Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:12 pm

The Darkwraiths were the knights of New Londo, that got corrupted and fused with their armor.

They served under the four kings. Four kings were great leaders of Londo. The abyss corrupted them

by TheMeInTeam Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:03 pm

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Post n°41

Re: Is Nito the only non-insane Lord?

Post by TheMeInTeam Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:03 pm

He is an optional first boss; I.E., you don't need any specific items to get to him, much like the Tauros Demon. While it's true that rookie players may not be able to get to him right away, he is still optional nonetheless. Quelaag IS NOT an optional first boss. Why? Because she requires an item in order to become your first boss.

Actually, you can head-shot ingward with hunter starting equipment, open the flood gates, and access any of the following bosses 1st without master key:

Quelag
Sif
Moonlight Butterfly
Taurus
Pinwheel

Now, while blowing by the ghosts in new londo and sniping ingward isn't exactly plausible for a beginner, neither is doing a runby through hordes of skeletons, making leaps of faith into short cuts, or running the catacombs w/o shortcuts with pure starting equipment. That you need an item is a rather arbitrary distinction. The first boss you fight is your first boss, and any of the above are "options", though for a beginner only the burg is really plausible.

Everyone says Pinwheel is easy because they usually fight him after Anor Londo, when in reality he's supposed to be fought after the Moonlight Butterfly.

That's one take. However, your immediate priority according to what the game tells you is to ring the two bells of awakening. This implies gargs and quelag, and the path to reach them. One could easily wander down into Valley of Drakes from the basin and go right to quelag. The crestfallen merchant implies its below the burg or some such, so the reasoning most people would use is to enter the depths through lower burg, which starts that path line. Regardless, at that point pinwheel isn't a first boss anymore, and the catacombs are still significantly harder than the depths regardless of whether you shortcut either.

Witch of Izalith was probably sane right up until she got consumed by chaos, and not after. Nito probably doesn't fit the definition of sanity, as we don't even know that he's a thinking being for certain or any of his motivations, if he has any and isn't just a force unto himself. Seath is definitely insane (even the game says so I think), and 4 kings...well, might or might not be depending on what kind of lore you believe. The might just be purely evil, but not necessarily insane.

by Dibsville Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:06 pm

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Post n°42

Re: Is Nito the only non-insane Lord?

Post by Dibsville Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:06 pm

TheMeInTeam wrote:

He is an optional first boss; I.E., you don't need any specific items to get to him, much like the Tauros Demon. While it's true that rookie players may not be able to get to him right away, he is still optional nonetheless. Quelaag IS NOT an optional first boss. Why? Because she requires an item in order to become your first boss.

Actually, you can head-shot ingward with hunter starting equipment, open the flood gates, and access any of the following bosses 1st without master key:

Quelag
Sif
Moonlight Butterfly
Taurus
Pinwheel

That would work, but the point is that you can get to those bosses without ANY specific items. You need the Key to the Seal (thus, needing a bow or suicide running the Ghost House, but it's a required item nonetheless) or the Master Key to access Sif, Quelaag, and the Moonlight Butterfly right away. You don't need any key whatsoever to access the Tauros Demon or Pinwheel.

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