Rapier vs Dagger pvp

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    Rapier vs Dagger pvp

    Post by xRamenatorx on Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:01 pm

    Rapiers vs Daggers

    For pvp which is best when combined with a katana? I like to use the dark silver tracer, estoc, or rapier. The criticals for the tracer and rapier are about the same. The estoc is behind by around 100dmg.

    Rapier class seems like the obvious choice because of the superior range, damage, and the ability to attack from behind a shield. In this aspect the estoc is probably better than the rapier because what you lose in criticals youll probably make up or in melee due to the estoc range. Then again the rapiers right trigger has range plus more damage than estoc's rb (the the behind the shield range for the rapier is small).

    For daggers i choose either bandits knife or the tracer. Though i prefer the tracers move set/toxic over the bandit knifes bleed. The daggers range is somewhat small but the startup for their attacks are faster than rapiers which allows for hit and run though only doing between 80 and 180dmg. Which the rapiers can attack outside of range if done right and do more dmg. However i tend to get people to parry more or do a swing in the middle of my dagger rb spam which makes for an easy backstab or parry.

    Comment with your thoughts please. If you choose rapiers then which one: estoc or rapier. If you choose daggers: bandits or tracers

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    Re: Rapier vs Dagger pvp

    Post by Myztyrio on Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:13 pm

    Rapier tends to do more crit damage because of its hidden piercing bonus, which does better against armor. The dagger, however, is lighter, and can be a nice way to finish off opponents with low health left(with its quick attacks). If you can spare the weight, rapier will almost always have slightly better results.


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    Re: Rapier vs Dagger pvp

    Post by xRamenatorx on Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:22 pm

    Yea in most cases rapiers are better i agree. However my main weapon is the katana. The rapier/daggers are there for surprise behind the shield hits or toxic from the tracer and criticals....i think youre right though. Ill use the estoc for serious fights and the tracer for fun. Haha thanks.

    Edit: Also estoc or rapier? Im more focused on surprise attacks to do 100ish dmg here and there. Aswell as doing any parry damage with my rapier instead of katana.
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    Re: Rapier vs Dagger pvp

    Post by WaffleGuy on Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:34 pm

    If you plan on buffing the weapons, then daggers are a better option. And then you'd best take the regular Dagger. It's faster than the Bandit's Knife


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    Re: Rapier vs Dagger pvp

    Post by xRamenatorx on Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:34 pm

    No buffs. Just a pyro dex build.

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    Re: Rapier vs Dagger pvp

    Post by User1 on Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:36 pm

    People underestimate the Bandit's Knife +15.

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    Re: Rapier vs Dagger pvp

    Post by xRamenatorx on Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:40 pm

    The bandits knife is really good. Though i found the silver tracer to be better. The plus 15 bandits knife had around 10 more AR. Also the right triggers of the tracer did more than the bandit knifes because of the thrust damage; though ill admit the bandits knife with a buff is better obviously.

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    Re: Rapier vs Dagger pvp

    Post by User1 on Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:44 pm

    Since I usually go with buffs, that was my choice. Knowing you aren't using them made me torn between the two of them. My judgement is still that Daggers are better.

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    Re: Rapier vs Dagger pvp

    Post by xRamenatorx on Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:51 pm

    Ive been testing them out. The rapier is, with no buff, a better weapon. The one handed r2 when timed right hits for 300ish damage. Though i will admit rapiers are harder to set up parrys or setup backstab punishments when your oppenent parries; daggers own in this field because most people will try to tank a hit and attack which leads to a parry or bs, or theyll tank a hit and parry which leads to a bs.

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    Re: Rapier vs Dagger pvp

    Post by User1 on Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:59 pm

    A lot of people expect the daggers to do nothing. Proving them wrong is great fun.
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    Re: Rapier vs Dagger pvp

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:02 pm

    If you just want a back-up BS weapon, DST. If you want an actually good back-up weapon, Estoc.


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    Re: Rapier vs Dagger pvp

    Post by User1 on Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:05 pm

    I use the DST in my off-hand. I use it to parry, and then finish with it. So, I think it is a good backup weapon. It is good for bleed and toxic too.

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    Re: Rapier vs Dagger pvp

    Post by xRamenatorx on Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:07 pm

    Yea though the normal rapier does like 10less damage on critical hits than the DST. So fir backstabs/backup weapon the rapier wins. The daggers come in handy when your oppenent has liw hp or to set up parrys.

    The DST doesnt cause bleed i believe

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    Re: Rapier vs Dagger pvp

    Post by User1 on Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:10 pm

    Does it not? Ah, well. Toxic is good for endurance fights.
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    Re: Rapier vs Dagger pvp

    Post by Emergence on Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:10 pm

    RenegadeCop wrote:I use the DST in my off-hand. I use it to parry, and then finish with it. So, I think it is a good backup weapon. It is good for bleed and toxic too.

    Interesting choice in the offhand. I'll use it main for the crit and toxic R2, if I'm going something small and fast like that too offhand, I'll go PGS for parry and that quick slash is a good bs punisher.


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    Re: Rapier vs Dagger pvp

    Post by User1 on Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:14 pm

    I've been told before the same thing. I don't know why anyone else uses it in the off-hand. It's surprisingly effective. I do try to keep my builds unique though. The Broadsword isn't used too much, and the DST is literally non-existant in other people's off hand weaponry selections.
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    Re: Rapier vs Dagger pvp

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:18 pm

    RenegadeCop wrote:the DST is literally non-existant in other people's off hand weaponry selections.

    Because it's strictly worse than other choices.


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    Re: Rapier vs Dagger pvp

    Post by User1 on Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:21 pm

    I may be a bit stupid with my weaponry choices, but wasn't that kind of unreasonably condescending?
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    Re: Rapier vs Dagger pvp

    Post by The Letter X on Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:31 pm

    Ramenator, go with the Estoc. No questions asked.


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    Re: Rapier vs Dagger pvp

    Post by xRamenatorx on Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:35 pm

    @ The Letter X yea i prefer the rapier class. Though after some testing i really prefer the actual rapier over the estoc
    Edit: actually i really dont know haha the rts of the rapier and estoc do around the same dmg and the range is about the same. So the estoc would be better because of its range
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    Re: Rapier vs Dagger pvp

    Post by lordgodofhell on Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:37 pm

    I always choose rapier over dagger. Why?

    Riposte combo damage. When I land a parry I always use a R2 prior to the riposte R1. The regular rapier does higher crit and higher regular hits than the dagger class.

    The only real reason to use a dagger over a rapier is if you want dat toxic effect of the silver tracer.

    This 2 hit riposte combo really does make buffing weps unfair. You can do 1900+ dmg if the rapier was buffed. Extra points if you worked lingering ring into your build.


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