About Leo Ring

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    Sentiel
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    About Leo Ring

    Post by Sentiel on Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:13 am

    I've recently started using the Rapier.
    Instead of using the Hornet Ring, because people hate on it too much, I wanted to use Leon Ring instead.

    I was using it with SKS before and it worked wonders, but with the Rapier, it doesn't seem to work unless I turtle poke. This is due to bad timing on my part, but it created a question.

    "When exactly does the counter apply?"

    When I hit my enemy in his attack animation, I know that.
    But when I see the attack it's too late, thanks to lag+latency, so I actually have to attack slightly sooner, or at the very beggining of my enemy's attack to get counter, not when the attack is already underway.
    Is that correct?

    Also, if somebody uses an attack that has a long animation, like some R2 attacks, or some spells, do I get counter when the attack is still in it's animation, or only when it finishes and can damage me?

    How does counter work when someone is casting a buff, or non direct spell, like Pursuers/HCS?

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    Re: About Leo Ring

    Post by ChizFreak on Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:50 am

    Too complicated to explain, I mean the timings, I hope somebody else takes the work haha

    But here is my advice:

    The easiest time to do a "counter" attacks, is attacking the opponent just after he finishes a dodge, while he is still on the frames of recovery from the animation, easiest way to do this is with WoG as it's fast as hell, and sometimes you opponent misses the dodge and you hit him for ridicolous big damage. For example, against the Bloated Guys in Oolacile Township, I do like 800 damage with a WoG, but if I cast it while they are dodging I do like 1100 damage.

    Counter attacks can be made with any kind of attack (though I haven't tested bows). But remember Leo Ring only boosts physical thrusting attacks (from any weapon, as long as you're doing a thrusting attack, for example a longsword's thrusting strong attack, backstabs don't count).

    As for your question about counter attacks to people casting, I have to admit I never fully tested it, but I think you only perform counter damage if you attack him just before he finishes casting (i.e shooting the magic projectile). As for buffs, I have no idea, but I'm not sure if you can do counter attacks to those.


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    Re: About Leo Ring

    Post by Sentiel on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:23 am

    ChizFreak wrote:Too complicated to explain, I mean the timings, I hope somebody else takes the work haha

    ChizFreak wrote:The easiest time to do a "counter" attacks, is attacking the opponent just after he finishes a dodge, while he is still on the frames of recovery from the animation, easiest way to do this is with WoG as it's fast as hell, and sometimes you opponent misses the dodge and you hit him for ridicolous big damage. For example, against the Bloated Guys in Oolacile Township, I do like 800 damage with a WoG, but if I cast it while they are dodging I do like 1100 damage.
    I think that's not a counter, but a critical (not bs/riposte). You can get that on players exiting rolls, when you attack them when they're in guard break etc.
    Counter is when you attacke them in attack animation (swings etc).

    ChizFreak wrote:Counter attacks can be made with any kind of attack (though I haven't tested bows). But remember Leo Ring only boosts physical thrusting attacks (from any weapon, as long as you're doing a thrusting attack, for example a longsword's thrusting strong attack, backstabs don't count).
    Yes, that's why I'm using the Rapier and I back it up with a bow, because it's great to damage and interupt casters and since arrows do piercing damage Leo Ring gives it a boost as well.

    ChizFreak wrote:As for your question about counter attacks to people casting, I have to admit I never fully tested it, but I think you only perform counter damage if you attack him just before he finishes casting (i.e shooting the magic projectile). As for buffs, I have no idea, but I'm not sure if you can do counter attacks to those.
    I've turtle poked people casting and it did more damage, so it works, but those were GC, DB and WoG. What if the person casts HCM/Pursuers, or just a buff, like SLB, GMB, or even Heals and item usage. That's what I wonder about.

    I never bother to try and test this, because I let them do the buffing before the fight and I don't want to attack them in initial buff just to test this and nobody is stupid enough to use buffs midfight.
    Also, with AoE spells I instinctively to bs them as it stops the cast of something possibly very dangerous.

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    Re: About Leo Ring

    Post by PlasticandRage on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:33 am

    The reason you keep seeing the extra damage when you're turtling, is because one of the easiest times to land it is when someone is trying to attack you. There's space to land the attack just after their attack animation starts, but before they connect, then there's space for it again just after their attack has connected with your shield. That's part of the reason why the Leo Ring is so effective for great shield builds, because you can afford to just have people bear down on your shield, while you stand safely behind it, getting counter damage. I'd say because of lag, you probably are better off attacking slightly earlier than you would in PvE, yeah.

    I'm not entirely sure how it is for buffs, but in the past when I've seen people casting attack spells I've generally just gone for the BS. Leo or not, you're probably going to do more damage that way, and you're 100% going to interrupt their cast, regardless of how much poise they've got. If you're in a position to punish a cast, that's what I recommend.


    Last edited by PlasticandRage on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:38 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: About Leo Ring

    Post by ChizFreak on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:33 am

    It's a counter, there are no such things as "critical hits" in Dark Souls, besides counter attacks, backstabs, headshots with projectiles, or ripostes. You can tell it's a counter attack, as you can do the "standard" counter attack even with spells (hitting them with spell just before they hit you), and you can do too what I said (attacking just after he finishes the dodge) with weapons (i.e SKS).


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    Re: About Leo Ring

    Post by Sentiel on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:45 am

    @Plastic
    Even though I sport Rapier atm, I don't want to turtle poke unless I have to. I prefer a quick R2 and poking instead. I'm basically the turtle that people hate so much now, but I still don't want to use shield poking, it feels cheap.

    So...I can counter my opponents by attacking them slightly before they attack, so I should hit the start of the animation.
    Good info. Thanks. cheers

    @Chiz
    I know you do more damage than normally when you hit at the exit a roll, but I don't think it's a counter, because the Leo Ring doesn't affect this damage.

    I was fighting a few mid rolling guys in heavy gear and my R2s did roughly 100-150 more damage when I attacked as they swung their weapon, in comparison to when I hit them as they finished a roll.

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    Re: About Leo Ring

    Post by PlasticandRage on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:54 am

    You could heavy armor it then. That'd be what I'd do if I was opposed to turtling I guess. Really though, if you're going to use the Leo ring, and a weapon that can turtle, you're kinda shooting yourself in the foot by refusing to do it.


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    Re: About Leo Ring

    Post by RANT on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:59 am

    Sentiel wrote:@Plastic
    Even though I sport Rapier atm, I don't want to turtle poke unless I have to. I prefer a quick R2 and poking instead. I'm basically the turtle that people hate so much now, but I still don't want to use shield poking, it feels cheap.

    So...I can counter my opponents by attacking them slightly before they attack, so I should hit the start of the animation.
    Good info. Thanks. cheers

    @Chiz
    I know you do more damage than normally when you hit at the exit a roll, but I don't think it's a counter, because the Leo Ring doesn't affect this damage.

    I was fighting a few mid rolling guys in heavy gear and my R2s did roughly 100-150 more damage when I attacked as they swung their weapon, in comparison to when I hit them as they finished a roll.

    its a counter, leo ring boosts counter with thrust weapons only which you already know.


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    Re: About Leo Ring

    Post by PlasticandRage on Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:03 pm

    Sentiel wrote:So...I can counter my opponents by attacking them slightly before they attack, so I should hit the start of the animation.
    Good info. Thanks. cheers

    As quick as the Rapier is, you probably could get away with doing it that way, but I usually attack the second I see their animation start, but I've been doing it with the Pike, which definitely has different timing


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    Re: About Leo Ring

    Post by Sentiel on Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:07 pm

    PlasticandRage wrote:You could heavy armor it then. That'd be what I'd do if I was opposed to turtling I guess. Really though, if you're going to use the Leo ring, and a weapon that can turtle, you're kinda shooting yourself in the foot by refusing to do it.
    I fast roll around with 54 Poise, Crest Shield and poke people to death with it. It's actually fun. big grin

    Only guys with MLGS are giving me a bit trouble lately. :|

    @Rant
    The name doesn't really matter to me, but alright, it's a counter. My point was that it's a different counter than the one when you attack someone as he attacks you, because I didn't see any damage increase from Leo Ring.

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    Re: About Leo Ring

    Post by robsthedon on Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:22 pm

    Sentiel wrote:


    "When exactly does the counter apply?"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X34Txlcgrlo
    I found this useful, lag plays a big part in pvp.


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