Dragon Magic in DkS II?

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    Dragon Magic in DkS II?

    Post by hey its andres on Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:54 pm

    I was poking around the internet when I stumbled upon this: boop

    Now there's a lot of interesting stuff here but what I want to point out is that the Gwynevere's talisman is a "Dragon Talisman" This is very interesting and also raises the question about whether dragons had their own form of magic. I believe this to be entirely possible for DkS II especially with dragons playing a bigger role this time. What do you guys think?
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    Re: Dragon Magic in DkS II?

    Post by Ashran on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:14 am

    Well, Dragons are the main reason for the upheaval of the age of fire and the rise of the humans. I think we should know more, i was dissapointed when i found that the ash of lake didnt have any... uhmm kind of dialogue with the covenant dragon.

    And about the video... I think they cutted that miracle because it is too noobfriendly and it will be overused. And i think the talisman was removed for some reason too, maybe Gwynevere should give it to you when you join the Princess Guard. Who knows.


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    Re: Dragon Magic in DkS II?

    Post by hey its andres on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:17 am

    Obviously the miracle was way too forgiving, but the fact that it says "Dragon Talisman" really interests me. Maybe the way to cast the fire from the dragon headstone was originally from a spell?


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    Re: Dragon Magic in DkS II?

    Post by Hue on Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:11 am

    I saw it in the save editor.
    Didn't want to screw with my save at the time


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    Re: Dragon Magic in DkS II?

    Post by Infighter on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:38 pm

    How it would work? And how it would look?

    Dragon's use Fire/Ice Breaths, idk how you could add this. We have something similar White Dragon Breath, and Dragon head


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    Re: Dragon Magic in DkS II?

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:15 pm

    well... seath has that whole crystal go boom attack, the gaping dragon has the acid barf the drakes have lightning breath, the undead dragons have toxic vomit, kalameet has the whole telekinesis and black flame stuff. so miniature versions of those...


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    Re: Dragon Magic in DkS II?

    Post by Acarnatia on Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:17 pm

    I think standard sorcery IS dragon magic-or, rather, Seath-styled dragon magic. Seath created sorcery, and the strongest form of sorcery is usually crystal, which also points back to Seath, and possibly the Primordial Crystal. (which was a dragon treasure before it was Seath's) The largest magical college is Vinheim Dragon School. Other than Dark magic and magic related to the Darkwraiths, sorcery seems to be entirely dragon-related already, so I really think it's redundant to say 'Dragon magic in Dark Souls.'


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    Re: Dragon Magic in DkS II?

    Post by hey its andres on Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:13 pm

    Normal sorceries are soul based and the one's that Seath developed where Soul based still but had the power of crystals within them. Basically, a dragon did in fact make magic but it was not based off of the power of dragons.


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    Re: Dragon Magic in DkS II?

    Post by Acarnatia on Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:09 am

    Look at any of the crystal spells. (which, if you read the descriptions, are used in Vinheim) Then look at Seath's breath, the Crystal Cave, Seath himself, the primordial crystal-sorcery has Seath's, who, albeit an odd one, clawprint all over it. Seath invented sorcery, and the standard Vinheim spells certainly bear resemblance to his breath. There's actually little aside from names that points to sorcery being related to soul manipulation like there is in Demon's Souls, while there is ample similarities and a stated relationship between sorcery and it's dragon progenitor.
    I do not mean that all 'magic' is related to dragons; miracles related to the Gods, obviously, are not. I do note, though, that dragons in the souls games (aside from Seath) seem to lack magic whatsoever. (they don't seem to need it, either) The creators said from the get-go that their dragon's are 'different,' from traditional and contemporary Western and Eastern dragons-that, aside from a basic archetype, are different creatures, in such ways as being oddly shaped, having actual stones for scales, and so on. Aside from Seath, (who was a scaleless albino, anyways) dragons seem to have no reason to be connected to have magic, be connected to magic, or to grant magic, aside from sorcery.


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    Re: Dragon Magic in DkS II?

    Post by Sloth9230 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:02 am

    Arcantia: Kalameet's breath is partially magic damage, though I agree with you in that most souls sorceries were either created by Seath or an attempt to mimic him.

    We must also remember that Seath wasn't always crystalized, which means that the breath attack he uses now is different/stronger than what he used before. In the past it was probably just a laser beam, which I'm assuming is what lead to the creation of the soul arrow spells.

    I Posted this elsewhere, it seems relevant.
    Sloth9230 wrote:Shkar would be correct. There were once fire sorceries, and olacile/dark were also developed separately. The blueish ones were either created by Seath, or are an attempt to mimic his power. Seath is the inspiration for the Vinheim branch of sorceries. Vinheim Dragon School, Slumbering/Bellowing/Lingering Dragoncrest Ring. Seath is the dragon from which the school gets it's name from.

    I think the Rings have a somewhat different source of inspiration though. We know from Kalameet, the dragon weapons, and covenant items, that almost all dragons posses magic in some form. So it's possible that Vinheim simply uses dragons in general as a symbol of magical power. The Dragon depicted on the rings themselves however, actually looks closer to Kalameet than any other dragon seen in Dark Souls. Which makes sense, Kalameet was the only dragon still alive(besides Seath who spent most of his time locked up in the Archives) by the time humans entered the scene. Therefore Kalameet, being the strongest dragon in the series lore-wise, would be feared and respected because of his power. The symbol of a dragon on the Dragoncrest Rings is a sign of respect towards that power, and shows that Vinheim Sorcerers wish to one day become as powerful as dragons once were.

    Also, keep Gyndolin in mind. Gwyndolin uses sorceries which appear to be faith based, they seem to be the same hue of blue as the darkmoon blade. However, they also behave similarly to ones we can learn. He could have developed them separately, Magical Convergence if you will, or it's possible he also created them by imitating Seath.

    Most of it is speculation on my part though.


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    Re: Dragon Magic in DkS II?

    Post by Hue on Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:34 am

    Tail weapons somewhat reflect the corresponding dragon's magic.

    For example the Obsidian Greatsword's R2 is very similar to Kalameet's breath.

    However, Moonlight Greatsword R2's have nothing to do with Seath himself, or crystals. It is definitely related to the moonlight butterflies, but we never see Seath himself use that "style" of attacks.
    The description calls them "waves of moonlight"

    So, what about this? it's a form of magic, created by Seath, but it doesn't look like sorcery.
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    Re: Dragon Magic in DkS II?

    Post by Sloth9230 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:54 am

    Well there's magic and then there's actual spells.

    the definition of sorcery is: the art, practices, or spells of magic, esp black magic, by which it is sought to harness occult forces or evil spirits in order to produce preternatural effects in the world
    The moonlight greatsword wouldn't use sorcery. Neither would any of the other weapons. they use magic but not actual spells.

    Moon seems to simply imply magic, Gwyndolin was said to have an affinity with the moon. Not sure why Seath only uses his crystal magic though. He really should have the Moonlight-Butteflies attacks, after all he did create them.


    It's possible that spells in the dark souls world are powered by souls, or rather, the souls the character uses to level up actually become a part of them and grant them a permanent power-up. Humans would then use the energy from those souls to imitate dragons, kind of like what happnes in the Full Metal Alchemist.


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    Re: Dragon Magic in DkS II?

    Post by hey its andres on Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:26 pm

    The whole concept of a "Dragon Talisman" intrigues me for some reason. What would it do? Maybe hey were going to have dragon spells instead of the dragon torso/headstone?


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