[Build] Need some direction

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    Dukamok

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    [Build] Need some direction

    Post by Dukamok on Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:00 am

    I'm currently hovering around SL 100 with 40vit/40end/40dex, and a few random points in others. My initial goal was to play primarily dex/chaos, which I'm doing; mostly Dark armor and Furysword/katanas, with pyro for fury within (and whatever else).

    I'm pretty new to the whole PvP scene, and the results (Red Eye) so far have been underwhelming (on my part!), but incredibly fun nonetheless. I've been doing a lot of reading around and I'm starting to feel severely underhanded not having a weapon+buff (namely SLB or DMB). I'd like to focus more on my katanas, but I'm reluctant to do so without taking a major step and pounding some points into faith, shoot for 50 and pick up some spells and SLB/DMB.

    I'm slightly overwhelmed by the choices and a bit of insight into the situation would help. Here's my take on where to go from here, but I have some hesitation in a few aspects...
    1) DMB is obviously better, but I'm enjoying being a Darkwraith. Should I settle for SLB? Or buy a ton of cracked orbs and jump ship?
    2) Faith. I'll end up at about SL 140 if I drop a bunch into faith, assuming I'm shooting for 50. Bit disappointed by this, since 120 seems to be the hot spot... =/
    3) Additionally, I've mucked up and Reah died, so I'll have to NG+ to get all of the other faith spells. IF this is what I end up doing then... I'm embarrassed to say it, but it will be my first foray into NG+ (not avoiding, I've just played through 3-4 different characters until this one that I'm enjoying the most for sure). Not worried about difficulty at all, more like what important things I should do / gather before I kill Gwyn. There's a good bit on this already on the wiki though.


    Overall, I'd appreciate just some general thoughts on the build and where to go with it, or perhaps some of my misconceptions and how to work with what I've already got. It's a lot of fun, but seems to have a great weakness in the lack of magic (haven't had much luck with pyro, other than Power Within which is double-edged sword..). Seeing as I have to NG+ anyway I'm not completely opposed to just starting over too, if that would be more beneficial to the end goal.

    Thanks <3
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    Maneater_Mildred
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    Re: [Build] Need some direction

    Post by Maneater_Mildred on Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:09 am

    30 faith, slb and your good to go, no need for any other spells unless you really want something. Also dont forget resin buffs, they can be very helpful. This will keep your sl at 120.

    Ps. Check the archives page for dmb and slb scaling, so you can see how 30 faith compares to 50.


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    Dukamok

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    Re: [Build] Need some direction

    Post by Dukamok on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:13 pm

    Had no idea resin stacked with buffs, good to know.

    Did a little math, with the best talisman for each faith:
    30 Faith, SLB - ~310
    30 Faith, DMB - ~344
    50 Faith, SLB - ~406
    50 Faith, DMB - ~452

    So the difference between DMB and SLB at 30 faith, if I wanted to stay SL120, is minor and I would probably just get SLB for simplicity. But the difference between that SLB and a 50 Faith DMB (more work) is 150 damage, which seems huge? Maybe I'm wrong?

    I guess the only spell I feel like I'm missing out on is WoG as far as actual Faith casting goes. Maybe not worth all the work just to get that, when I could just use the faith for a buff and stick to melee and/or pyro if need be.

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    Re: [Build] Need some direction

    Post by PPG-3- on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:19 pm

    you don't need weapon buffs for effective pvp.

    i find some people buff and then become overly aggressive anyways considering the buff lasts 1min to 1:30. I don't allow a free re-buff when the first one expires. they swing alot and once their stamina is drained you can unload on them. again, thats just some ppl. but you can be very effective without a buff.

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    Re: [Build] Need some direction

    Post by Purplebuds on Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:15 pm

    No resin doesn't stack simultaneously with the buff. I believe he means as an alternative so you don't have to pump points into faith and be a higher level. Also once you run out of cracked orbs you will need to join the darkwraiths again to buy more. Might have to just blue orb instead.


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    skarekrow13
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    Re: [Build] Need some direction

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:23 pm

    I raised my int. a little to use crystal magic weapon. Not the top of the line buff but adds a good chunk. I have also had success with unique weapons that don't buff but had to adjust according to their strengths.

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    BLA1NE
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    Re: [Build] Need some direction

    Post by BLA1NE on Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:26 pm

    To answer your questions:

    1. DMB is not "obviously better". SLB adds lightning damage to your weapon, DMB adds magic damage. The majority of armor sets have more magic defense than lightning, which would make SLB better. On the other hand, the majority of shields have higher lightning resistance than magic, so against turtles you'd be better off with DMB. It's not a simple question and, in the end, either one is quite equivalent.

    2. Yeah, go for 30 Fth then, no problem. Will give you just enough to cast DMB or SLB and, if you go to NG+ to get it, WoG. (Just don't spam WoG--use it sparingly.)

    3. You don't absolutely need to go to NG+. There aren't really any miracles I recommend for PvP other than WoG. But if you do choose to go for it, then yes, there's a lot of info on that in the Wiki and on these forums. Use the search function at the top of the page, you'll find your answers here.


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    Re: [Build] Need some direction

    Post by BLA1NE on Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:31 pm

    @Skarekrow

    CMW's not a bad idea. But at low levels, to compare with DMB and SLB, you need to get your Int to 32 for the Tin Crystallization Catalyst. Then it'll get you 355 damage bonus. Also, the TCC is heavier than a talisman. Very minor differences, but they're worth taking into consideration:

    1. 32 Int vs 30 Fth
    2. 2.5 weight vs 0.3


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    Re: [Build] Need some direction

    Post by Dukamok on Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:57 pm

    BLA1NE wrote:To answer your questions:

    1. DMB is not "obviously better". SLB adds lightning damage to your weapon, DMB adds magic damage. The majority of armor sets have more magic defense than lightning, which would make SLB better. On the other hand, the majority of shields have higher lightning resistance than magic, so against turtles you'd be better off with DMB. It's not a simple question and, in the end, either one is quite equivalent.

    2. Yeah, go for 30 Fth then, no problem. Will give you just enough to cast DMB or SLB and, if you go to NG+ to get it, WoG. (Just don't spam WoG--use it sparingly.)

    3. You don't absolutely need to go to NG+. There aren't really any miracles I recommend for PvP other than WoG. But if you do choose to go for it, then yes, there's a lot of info on that in the Wiki and on these forums. Use the search function at the top of the page, you'll find your answers here.
    Thanks a lot. After mulling it over some more I'll probably hit up SLB and go up to 30 Faith, give it a shot. And if I ever feel the need to try DMB or get WoG, I'll need to NG+ for both anyway lol (assuming you keep SLB when you NG+ as well?). I'll hold off for now and keep practicing around SL120, need to earn a ton of souls for stuff anyway.

    Now to decide whether or not to stay +2 DW or buy a bunch of orbs and try something else lol. FoC maybe?
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    Re: [Build] Need some direction

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:01 pm

    BLA1NE....definitely worth noting that, thanks for the added info. Also with the TCC it will cut you down to one cast unless you have multiple attunement slots and multiples of the spell. I use the Izalith catalyst which works pretty well for me and allows for 3 casts. Although, this plus a great scythe makes it look like I am holding two really long sticks. Not super intimidating until the one stick glows blue and it's easier to see the long blade at the end.

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    meridam99
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    Re: [Build] Need some direction

    Post by meridam99 on Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:05 pm

    BLA1NE wrote:
    1. DMB is not "obviously better". SLB adds lightning damage to your weapon, DMB adds magic damage. The majority of armor sets have more magic defense than lightning, which would make SLB better. On the other hand, the majority of shields have higher lightning resistance than magic, so against turtles you'd be better off with DMB. It's not a simple question and, in the end, either one is quite equivalent.

    I have to be honest and say first off, I rarely use weapon buffs but when I do, I have these three qued up:


    1. Pine Resin
    2. Charcoal Resin
    3. Dark Moon Blade (level 2 in covenant)

    The reason I have all three ready is I look at the armor someone has + Shield, and then I quickly look at a spreadsheet I made up that tells me what to use. I use the buff that is best. I also have Sunlight Blade from NG, but with only one cast of it, I can't see equiping it. I would suggest making a spreadsheet, it would really help.


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    Re: [Build] Need some direction

    Post by Dukamok on Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:10 pm

    meridam99 wrote:
    BLA1NE wrote:
    1. DMB is not "obviously better". SLB adds lightning damage to your weapon, DMB adds magic damage. The majority of armor sets have more magic defense than lightning, which would make SLB better. On the other hand, the majority of shields have higher lightning resistance than magic, so against turtles you'd be better off with DMB. It's not a simple question and, in the end, either one is quite equivalent.

    I have to be honest and say first off, I rarely use weapon buffs but when I do, I have these three qued up:


    1. Pine Resin
    2. Charcoal Resin
    3. Dark Moon Blade (level 2 in covenant)

    The reason I have all three ready is I look at the armor someone has + Shield, and then I quickly look at a spreadsheet I made up that tells me what to use. I use the buff that is best. I also have Sunlight Blade from NG, but with only one cast of it, I can't see equiping it. I would suggest making a spreadsheet, it would really help.
    Do resins scale at all? The wiki says it's a static increase, one that pales in comparison to say, SLB. Am I interpreting wrong? As you just said, why choose pine resin over SLB, only because of the single cast?
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    Re: [Build] Need some direction

    Post by BLA1NE on Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:19 pm

    @Skare

    Yup, TCC will bring you down to 1 cast... But both DMB and SLB have only 1 cast to begin with. winking So it's the fairest way to compare the 3 spells, really.

    @Meridam

    I admire your adaptability! But since resins are so much weaker than spell buffs, Dukamok might be right in saying that you'd be better off just always using SLB. If it wears off, then you could go to the resins. But since I have little knowledge on the effectiveness of resins, I defer to your experience.


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    Re: [Build] Need some direction

    Post by strangejoy on Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:34 pm

    I've noticed that quite a few people are packing great magic barrier these days (I'm one of them). The fact that there are no defensive buffs effective against SLB should be a consideration when you're choosing a buff. In other words, I think you're on the right track with SLB over DMB.


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