IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

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    IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by Madara on Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:18 pm

    I don't usually say this but IGN really got it bang on with this article. It just goes to show that they still produce some good articles.
    http://www.ign.com/blogs/kezaaargh/2012/12/11/4-reasons-im-worried-about-dark-souls-2/?abthid=50c731a0c010ee127c000014
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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by Argetlam350 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:39 pm

    Reason 1 I can see as a good reason though I still feel that Myakazi will have some say over what gets put in and what doesn't. Honestly I doubt he'd let a new guy ruin what he has worked hard on. Give Fromsoft some credit.

    Reason 2 Is entirely debateable. The comment everyone is so worried about is the "more accessibility" and it's such a vague comment. He could mean difficulty setting (worst case senario), or more understandable story, or even a better tutorial at the beginning of the game (some new players I met who have only played Dark Souls felt the tutorial was a bit difficult to follow. Either way I could care less about the tutorial if it was changed). Really everyone is jumping the gun on the Edge inteview and I've always felt Edge wasn't the greatest magazine journalism in the world. Also it's to early to even know what the new director means or plans. Again give Fromsoft some faith here.

    Reason 3 That's nitpicking I'm sorry. Not even the greatest reason in the world to worry about. Yes I get what she's saying but come on, it still nitpicking.

    Reason 4 Honestly I don't get it. Dark Souls can't have snowy regions or dragons now or else it's Skyrim? Come on, I get how it can look like Skyrim but so what? Doesn't mean it will play like it. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing some snowy environments, it would be interesting to see what Fromsoft can do. Plus fur on armor is interesting, so we can't have that because it's to Skyrim? So I feel this reason is more of nitpicking. Plus it was a world premiere trailer for VGA, you want to excite people at the VGA rather then inform them.


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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by Onion Knight on Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:52 pm

    The most ironic article ever written by mankind.


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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by ak1287 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:37 pm

    IGN is worried, about the exact same things all the other people on the internet are worried about.

    If EVER there was a perfect retort to an argument, 'IGN and the rest of the internet agree' is probably that retort.
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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:43 pm

    Isn't she the one who did a walkthrough of DkS but didn't even know the names of assorted bosses/NPCs?

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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:44 pm

    I wouldn't say it's a very good article at all.. The music, really? Suddenly snow and fur = skyrim?

    Only point is agree on is accessibility tidbit, but even then anyone on here could have written this crap..


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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by ak1287 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:44 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:Isn't she the one who did a walkthrough of DkS but didn't even know the names of assorted bosses/NPCs?

    Yup, that's the lady.
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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by RANT on Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:51 pm

    i like Keza since she loves the MH franchise which automaticaly makes her a hardcore gamer since the MH series is harder than the souls series, i think it's gonna be a good game but the reason miyazaki is stepping down is because he's out of new ideas, dark souls is basically the same thing as demon's, dark souls was just more polished so im pretty sure he doesnt wanna keep doing what all the shooters are doing, which is to make the same game over and over again. shibuya worked on MH; freedom 2 which is imo the best and hardest in the series(some bossea are almost impossible to kill and will lead to a couple of broken psp's lol) im really not expecting something revolutionary like demon;s souls was because it's really hard to come up with something like that which is why dark souls wasnt revolutionary. its just gonna be more of the same and all the people complaining are gonna buy it anyway which its pretty funny.


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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:52 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:Isn't she the one who did a walkthrough of DkS but didn't even know the names of assorted bosses/NPCs?

    She is Scottish, she probably can't remember their names due to the drunken stupor she was probably in.. Huh, I think I just found why reviewers think the games so hard!


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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by DE5PA1R on Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:02 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:I wouldn't say it's a very good article at all.. The music, really?

    Yeah really. The Souls franchise has historically taken EVERYTHING about a game - music, story, setting, gameplay, pvp, cooperation - and made it difficult to execute, follow and/or understand. Take one aspect away and the Jenga tower wobbles a bit. It may seem like a minor detail, but it represents a piece of a larger puzzle.

    The trailer's music is a departure. ENB points this out as well in his trailer analysis.

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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by ak1287 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:17 pm

    DE5PA1R wrote:
    Serious_Much wrote:I wouldn't say it's a very good article at all.. The music, really?

    Yeah really. The Souls franchise has historically taken EVERYTHING about a game - music, story, setting, gameplay, pvp, cooperation - and made it difficult to execute, follow and/or understand. Take one aspect away and the Jenga tower wobbles a bit. It may seem like a minor detail, but it represents a piece of a larger puzzle.

    The trailer's music is a departure. ENB points this out as well in his trailer analysis.

    I think that'd be a little bit more valid if it were actually a gameplay trailer.
    I mean, I don't remember Bartholomew ever being used in Dark Souls.
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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:21 pm

    Just because ENB says it, doesn't mean the whole Souls community have to agree, the guy is an asset, but not the god of souls ideology.

    To me, mixing up the music could help evolve the series; electric instruments, wider use of a choir, perhaps some synthesis sounds could allow better for variation in the soundtrack.

    Don't get me wrong, the way it is now is good, but it's not perfect, in fact I think it's possibly one of the weaker aspects in souls, sound is used well, but could be even better


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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by DE5PA1R on Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:27 pm

    ak1287 wrote:The trailer's music is a departure. ENB points this out as well in his trailer analysis.

    I think that'd be a little bit more valid if it were actually a gameplay trailer.
    I mean, I don't remember Bartholomew ever being used in Dark Souls.

    I'll agree that we need more info before we can move out of the speculation phase.

    But for Dark Souls, wasn't the debut trailer extremely similar to what we saw in the actual game? IIRC, the Bartholomew trailer was relatively late in coming.

    And while the first trailer may not accurately reflect some aspects of a game, can't we at least expect it to reflect the tone of the work?
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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by DE5PA1R on Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:32 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:Just because ENB says it, doesn't mean the whole Souls community have to agree, the guy is an asset, but not the god of souls ideology.

    True. I didn't go in with that assumption.

    To me, mixing up the music could help evolve the series; electric instruments, wider use of a choir, perhaps some synthesis sounds could allow better for variation in the soundtrack.

    Don't get me wrong, the way it is now is good, but it's not perfect, in fact I think it's possibly one of the weaker aspects in souls, sound is used well, but could be even better

    I really like the Dark Souls music. I'll allow that it could use more variation. But I'm not sure about THIS variation; it's a little generic. But that's a matter of opinion.

    The matter of fact is that the music is at least somewhat different, and I think that's reasonable justification for some fans' trepidation.
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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by MasterofShadows on Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:42 pm

    I'm hoping to see more of an evolution in the music. I'm cool if they make it more epic and actioney, but only if a lot of the songs still retain the horror element to match the type of enemy that is being fought.

    Secondly, I'm really hoping that they up the production value of the sound effects. While I loved the way they used sound (listening to your surroundings actually matters in these games), I'm hoping for more varied effects and better sounding ones too.


    Last edited by MasterofShadows on Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:48 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by RANT on Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:44 pm

    @serious the music really fits the worl of dark souls, its very subtle and you might never notice it but it makes the atmophere at lot more awesome. electric guitar? synth? why not just have one of those crappy pop stars sing in it too, i guess it will help with sales too if thats what FROM wants.


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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by MasterofShadows on Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:51 pm

    RantFromRant wrote:@serious the music really fits the worl of dark souls, its very subtle and you might never notice it but it makes the atmophere at lot more awesome. electric guitar? synth? why not just have one of those crappy pop stars sing in it too, i guess it will help with sales too if thats what FROM wants.

    Comeon, don't you think that you are taking it too far here? Isn't it possible to increase the production value of the music while still retaining the original philosophy?


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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by carlucio on Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:13 pm

    I have those 4 worries and much more.
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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by RANT on Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:44 pm

    MasterofShadows wrote:
    RantFromRant wrote:@serious the music really fits the worl of dark souls, its very subtle and you might never notice it but it makes the atmophere at lot more awesome. electric guitar? synth? why not just have one of those crappy pop stars sing in it too, i guess it will help with sales too if thats what FROM wants.

    Comeon, don't you think that you are taking it too far here? Isn't it possible to increase the production value of the music while still retaining the original philosophy?

    changing the music doesnt necessarily means increased production value. the reason i didnt really like the trailer is because it looks AND sounds like your typical rpg trailer which i dont like. im actually one of the people that really doenst care much about this since its only a reveal trailer, i will wait till the game comes out and then talk about how good or bad it is, i love that new new director worked on the MH series since i love those games so im hopeful that its gonna be a good game.


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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by Tolvo on Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:46 pm

    I agree with her main points, but I actually don't think she really presented her points well.
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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:54 pm

    MasterofShadows wrote:I'm hoping to see more of an evolution in the music. I'm cool if they make it more epic and actioney, but only if a lot of the songs still retain the horror element to match the type of enemy that is being fought.

    Secondly, I'm really hoping that they up the production value of the sound effects. While I loved the way they used sound (listening to your surroundings actually matters in these games), I'm hoping for more varied effects and better sounding ones too.

    Exactly.. Kinda, but yeah I think an evolution overall in the sound of the game could take the atmosphere to the next level

    I disagree with your point though rant, what they have now does suit, but you can grow it into more. Synth and electric guitars would be very effective if used well amd I think particularly more use of drums for a rhythmic effect for heart pounding or creepy would be excellent to widen the effect the music could have, at the moment the music isn't varied enough for me, the only real exception being gwyn's theme, which I really enjoyed


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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by BartholomewWenceslas on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:02 pm

    I think the music could certainly do with a bit of upgrading. I'm not saying anything big, but the only boss music I particularly liked in DkS was the music against Gwynn. I can't even remember any of the other songs, and I've fought both Iron Golem and O&S well over 200 times each, so you'd expect me to have them each memorized by now


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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by Seignar on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:27 pm

    Reason 1 is understandable. Reason 2 is understandable, but we have little ways of knowing what it means. Reason 3 is paranoia. Reason 4 is even bigger paranoia.

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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by eminusx on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:36 pm

    The music in DS has a foreboding orchestral feel, like a Bartok or Stravinsky piece, and it sits nicely with the gothic look of the game, the pace of the gameplay and the tension in the atmosphere, there's also a great deal of light and shade which works subliminally, the moments of silence make you feel alone and edgy and build the tension. I'm not saying its perfect, they could tweak or refine it certainly, but if you start throwing in synths and electric guitars then its gonna upset that balance unless they become more like abstract noises than riffs etc.

    great example
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szC8cS9M-Ew

    The piano led track for Gwyn was a masterstroke of misdirection, totally unexpected for the big showdown and it gave the fight a real bittersweet tone, like a once proud lion having to lay down and accept its fate.


    Also, If DS2 happens to have snow then it will still be a world away from Skyrim, theyre so different stylistically and in their gameplay, just look at Ariamis and Pris, no amount of snow or fur is gonna change that so long as they stay true to the original design intent.




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    Re: IGN's Worries about Dark Souls

    Post by MasterofShadows on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:48 pm

    eminusx wrote:The music in DS has a foreboding orchestral feel, like a Bartok or Stravinsky piece, and it sits nicely with the gothic look of the game, the pace of the gameplay and the tension in the atmosphere, there's also a great deal of light and shade which works subliminally, the moments of silence make you feel alone and edgy and build the tension. I'm not saying its perfect, they could tweak or refine it certainly, but if you start throwing in synths and electric guitars then its gonna upset that balance unless they become more like abstract noises than riffs etc.

    great example
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szC8cS9M-Ew

    The piano led track for Gwyn was a masterstroke of misdirection, totally unexpected for the big showdown and it gave the fight a real bittersweet tone, like a once proud lion having to lay down and accept its fate.


    Also, If DS2 happens to have snow then it will still be a world away from Skyrim, theyre so different stylistically and in their gameplay, just look at Ariamis and Pris, no amount of snow or fur is gonna change that so long as they stay true to the original design intent.



    Excellent points, eminusx. And thanks for the youtube example. That is exactly something that I'd like to hear more of, because its more minimalistic, and minimalism is the primary narrative tone for the Soul's games.

    However, I hope that they don't start to add music to the actual normal gameplay (outside of the boss battles), because it could seriously distract from the environmental sounds, which are extremely important in a game like this. In Demon's Souls and Dark Souls paying attention for the sound of footsteps or groans could be the difference between you surviving or lying in a pool of your own blood.


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