Do aliens exist?

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    Do aliens exist?

    Post by WyrmHero on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:21 am

    I wanna know what's you guys opinion on this. I would like to discuss it with a more scientific basis. I can begin by saying that I believe life exists in other planets. The NASA has discovered some planets that meet the Earth to Sun distance so it's likely they can have water and thus life. But could this life evolve to highly intelligent species like us humans? In my opinion it's very unlikely. For example the life on that planet could just be a bunch of animals. I say this because of all the animals we have here on Earth, there's only 1 species that was able to evolve into intelligent being (humans). So it seems being intelligent is not that easy.

    There is another thing we have to consider. Is the universe still young? My answer is yes. Earth's and the universe lifetime are very close (14 billion years for the universe and around 5 billion years for Earth). What I am trying to establish is that for a planet to generate intelligent beings, it needs +4 billion years for formation processes and at least 1 billion years for life to evolve to fully intelligent beings. This makes me think that we humans could be the first intelligent species to exist in the universe. Or we might be one of the first.

    But what if there's already an intelligent species out there? Could be since the very first stars could have spawned Earth-like planets. It doesn't even need to be Earth-like since scientists discovered silicon-based life in one of the moons I think. The key is consistency and stability of the star for the planet to spawn life.

    Now this is my favorite part. Since I took a modern physics class some time ago I have been convinced with the idea that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. We did a couple of formulas, and one of them draw a graphic of mass vs energy. It say that as an object get close to the speed of light, its mass transforms into energy and its energy into mass (crazy right). There's the other thing that says that as you get closer to the speed of light the time around you dilates and you age slower compared to someone on Earth.

    Anyway, what I'm trying to establish is that no matter if an intelligent species were capable of travel close to the speed of light, they wouldn't be able to travel very far without dying. Our closest star, Proxima Centauri, is 4 light years away. Our closest galaxy, 4.5 billion light years away. So if we want to search for life that we can contact, we have to do it within our own galaxy, which decreases the odds of encountering intelligent life. If there's intelligent life out there, I'm pretty damn sure they don't bother going too far from their own world. Let's discuss, I'll add more with replies.


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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by BeeSeaEss on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:25 am

    i have nothing to say, this boggles my mind :dragon-eye: ___ :dragon-eye:


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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by WyrmHero on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:32 am

    Do you think they exist? Or that they have arrived to Earth?


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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:39 am

    "There's the other thing that says that as you get closer to the speed of light the time around you dilates and you age slower compared to someone on Earth. "
    Technically everyone else just speeds up. So while you could travel to another galaxy by the time you did and got back everyone you knew would be dead. Also in terms of humans being one of the first intelligent races, you'd have to look at when population I stars started appearing. Only they can have planets so the earlier they started appearing the earlier planets could (may not be 100% correct).

    I reckon there are aliens. Whether we encounter them or not ... the universe is so big no matter how small the chance of life evolving it will happen multiple times. However because of that its unlikely to ever meet someone of the other race.


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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by WyrmHero on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:51 am

    Exactly Dough. Also there's a guy that developed an equation based on tgese things we're talking about. It's the Drake equation:

    N = R* fp ne fl fi fc L
    where, 
    N = The number of communicative civilizations
    R* = The rate of formation of suitable stars (stars such as our Sun)
    fp = The fraction of those stars with planets. (Current evidence indicates that planetary systems may be common for stars like the Sun.)
    ne = The number of Earth-like worlds per planetary system
    fl = The fraction of those Earth-like planets where life actually develops
    fi = The fraction of life sites where intelligence develops
    fc = The fraction of communicative planets (those on which electromagnetic communications technology develops)
    L = The "lifetime" of communicating civilizations


    Based in current observations and estimations the value is:

    N = 7 × 0.4 × 10-11 × 10-9 × 0.1 × 304 = 8 x 10^-20 civilizations. A super low value. You can look for more details on wikipedia. There are other results that say around 10, 000 civilizations.


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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by mugenis4real on Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:17 am

    I was probed once. :oops:




    Nah but seriously there has to be other intelligent life, the universe is huge.
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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by BIG TIME MASTER on Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:30 am

    I think man's understanding of the universe and time by way of science is probably lacking. It's probably not wise to draw any conclusions with such a narrow understanding, and the only thing I'd say is that the possibilities are endless.

    If you took one of those tribesmen from the deepest darkest jungles of Africa who still live using prehistoric means, and have never fathomed what the outside world was like or that it even existed, and threw them into New York city or even a quaint mountain village in Switzerland or someplace, just imagine how completely overwhelming it would seem.
    I think, as a species, we are in (in a sense) like the time-forgotten tribesmen, and if we were suddenly given access to all of the knowledge of the universe and the ability to roam it we would have a similar experience. I don't mean there are highly advanced space-faring civilizations of mind reading tentacle-brain head in a jar aliens, but you know, there's probably all sorts of crazy things far and wide across distances we can't understand.





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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by ChizFreak on Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:54 am

    I think of it like this: the Universe is so huge, that the chance of the same event that created US, happening in another point of Universe that we didn't/can't see, is very possible. Considering the fact that life in the Earth started with water coming from an asteroid/comet, is very likely that there are other asteroids/comets with the same or similar characteristics flying around the space. If they ever crash (supposing it didn't happened already) on a planet with the correct parameters, life will begin according to evolution.

    Maybe it already happened but because evolution takes millions of years we didn't see any of those life forms in other planets.

    Maybe a similar event occurred in another planet close to the date that happened to Earth, so it's possible that there are other life forms in the Universe even right now. Even if they are not humans, or monkeys, just life forms of any type.

    And this is all supposing that we are talking about similar life forms to those we know. There might be other type of life forms, that require less time to evolve. The important parameter here is water. Water is what creates life as we know it, besides that, obviously everything is possible. There may be some giant lizards in a far away point of the universe that live from carbon dioxide, but we humans suppose there can't be life without water.


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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by vatar5 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:56 am

    You also gotta think that it took billions of year for human to appear on Earth and if Homo Sapiens appeared,it was only by pure luck with the mutation. (and natural selection with the end of the dinosaurs and the extreme cold)
    Drake's equation doesn't take that in account.

    Intelligent life outside?Very unlikely to me.
    But just life outside?Way more likely.
    We could even "create" life by dropping some plankton in the ocean of a desert Earth-like planet.


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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by WyrmHero on Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:02 am

    ^Some big mystery is what scientists call "dark matter" and "dark energy". The term dark matter comes when astronomers tried to calculate a galaxy's rotational acceleration or something like that with the laws of Newton. The numbers were very inaccurate and it was like there's suppose to be some kind of mass influencing the stars and they call this mass dark matter.

    Dark energy in the other case seems to be the cause of the accelerated expanding universe. The term comes up because after the Big Bang the universe should be expanding at a constant rate, but recently astronomers found that this expansion rate is not constant, it increases more and more. Thus they assume some sort of energy is accelerating the expansion of the universe. Crazy sh!t if you ask me.


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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by WyrmHero on Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:09 am

    ChizFreak wrote:I think of it like this: the Universe is so huge, that the chance of the same event that created US, happening in another point of Universe that we didn't/can't see, is very possible. Considering the fact that life in the Earth started with water coming from an asteroid/comet, is very likely that there are other asteroids/comets with the same or similar characteristics flying around the space. If they ever crash (supposing it didn't happened already) on a planet with the correct parameters, life will begin according to evolution.

    Maybe it already happened but because evolution takes millions of years we didn't see any of those life forms in other planets.

    Maybe a similar event occurred in another planet close to the date that happened to Earth, so it's possible that there are other life forms in the Universe even right now. Even if they are not humans, or monkeys, just life forms of any type.

    And this is all supposing that we are talking about similar life forms to those we know. There might be other type of life forms, that require less time to evolve. The important parameter here is water. Water is what creates life as we know it, besides that, obviously everything is possible. There may be some giant lizards in a far away point of the universe that live from carbon dioxide, but we humans suppose there can't be life without water.

    After taking my chemistry class I was wondering why the f*** does carbon likes to create life. Why not oxygen or uranium? No it has to be the silly carbon. Can't remember right now the reason but I'll look it up. Also silicon based life is possible according to NASA.


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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by MosquitoPower on Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:47 am

    Ive heard a few science types toss in the idea that when the universe started, the “bang” resulted in the universe “unfolding” in some manner.
    I don’t have the brains to even come close to explaining it, but the idea results in the same thing WyrmHero is talking about… all the “original” planets have close the same "start" time...

    So has there been enough time for anyone/thing to figure out long range space travel?

    This is where it all goes off the rails, :alien:

    If you want to travel in space, you also need the ability to travel through time as well (so you won’t return to a dead planet after taking a trip to the edge of the universe)

    So who/what ever figures space travel could be anywhere at any time.
    That means they will have to decide if they should share space/time travel with themselves at an earlier date.

    So in a really big stretch of the imagination, whatever planet figures out space travel a bazillion years from now… could have it right now….unless they hold to some kind of Star Trek like code against messing with the past.
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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:51 am

    Carbon has something to do with its bonding I believe. Cant remember what its called but its part of what allows it to form super long stable chains. Cantenation or something.


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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by GrinTwist on Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:10 pm

    There is a very slim chance that intelligent life exists at the current moment. I'd think if anything there are animals of some sort that aren't sentient that do exist on far away planet or moon. There is the possibility of it happening but if anyone has ever done any research on how long it takes for a species to evolve into a sentient being it wouldn't be very likely. There is still the possibility of life but I'd think we would find those types of animals in early stages of adaptation to their environment.

    Also Wyrm, since you seem to know so much of this I would like to ask. Have you heard of the moon called Europa? It can't sustain a form of life like anything on Earth yet, but there is a hypothesis that underneath the ice on the planet there might be a large ocean of water. Just some info for ya.


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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by vatar5 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:27 pm

    Do you know why diamond is the hardest of metal?(as I know as I've only seen diamond in video games XD)
    It's because it is the metal with one of the heaviest rate of carbon/mass.
    It is MASSIVE in carbon.
    I saw why at sephomore year but I think it was because it allows for a better "building"(how the atoms are all linked to each other). Remember what carbon makes 4 links with the octet rule.

    Also,all the planets formed themselves in a long period of time.
    When the Big Bang finished,Earth didn't exist.I don't remember how a planet is formed but probably with rocks crashing around a magnetic(gravity interaction) core.



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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by ChizFreak on Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:44 pm

    WyrmHero wrote:^Some big mystery is what scientists call "dark matter" and "dark energy". The term dark matter comes when astronomers tried to calculate a galaxy's rotational acceleration or something like that with the laws of Newton. The numbers were very inaccurate and it was like there's suppose to be some kind of mass influencing the stars and they call this mass dark matter.

    Dark energy in the other case seems to be the cause of the accelerated expanding universe. The term comes up because after the Big Bang the universe should be expanding at a constant rate, but recently astronomers found that this expansion rate is not constant, it increases more and more. Thus they assume some sort of energy is accelerating the expansion of the universe. Crazy sh!t if you ask me.

    Quite interesting, thank you for sharing. Looks like we are both interested in at least some parts of the metaphysics.


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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:06 pm

    vatar5 wrote:Also,all the planets formed themselves in a long period of time.
    When the Big Bang finished,Earth didn't exist.I don't remember how a planet is formed but probably with rocks crashing around a magnetic(gravity interaction) core.

    After the first population II stars died they released heavier elements into space. Due to the uneven distribution of energy in space this creates areas of heavier gravity where those heavier elements lowly collect around stars and turn into planets.


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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by hey its andres on Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:14 pm

    I doubt that we have made any contact whatsoever (aliens would need very advanced technology to make contact), however, I do not doubt the existence of life somewhere else in the universe. If the universe is infinitely large then there are an infinite number of chances for life to occur. So the possibility that there is life, and intelligent life for that matter, is almost certain.


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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by Digitalyzed on Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:15 am

    On a related universe-ish note, I was reading a recent article on the detection of bands of radiation that may provide evidence for the Multiverse theory. Supposedly new universes would basically "bud" off from a larger universe, at the same time having their own big bang, producing rings of detectable radiation.

    Scientists also hypothesised that these universes may actually be joined by wormholes, which would also be a dream to most science fiction fans.


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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by SlakeMoth on Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:52 pm

    Yes, we've been here a while.
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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:59 pm

    hey its andres wrote:I doubt that we have made any contact whatsoever (aliens would need very advanced technology to make contact), however, I do not doubt the existence of life somewhere else in the universe. If the universe is infinitely large then there are an infinite number of chances for life to occur. So the possibility that there is life, and intelligent life for that matter, is almost certain.
    My opinion. Math says in a loud and clear voice "PROBABLY," lol.


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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by EeAyEss on Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:27 pm

    I'm going to be that religious person, because I am.

    I believe in God, and all that jazz. SO:
    He made this big ***' universe, so why make us the only intelligent life forms out there? It's stupid. I definitely believe that there is alien life out there.

    *As a disclaimer, I mean no harm and do not wish to provoke. I understand that religion is a touchy issue on the internet*


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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by reim0027 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:02 am

    Other life forms? given the enormous size of the known universe, I'd say yes. Visited Earth? The only one I know visited Earth gave Cartman an anal probe. lol


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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by Elite Knight on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:41 am

    EeAyEss wrote:I'm going to be that religious person, because I am.

    I believe in God, and all that jazz. SO:
    He made this big ***' universe, so why make us the only intelligent life forms out there? It's stupid. I definitely believe that there is alien life out there.

    *As a disclaimer, I mean no harm and do not wish to provoke. I understand that religion is a touchy issue on the internet*

    I'm with you. I hold out hope that God made other beings outside of our understanding, but then again I find it hard to see a point to them. Discovering alien life would be so fantastic, given that I am the science fiction fan that I am. But it's also kind of scary: Think about it. As humans, when we discover some new place, we often destroy what was there to benefit ourselves. When we find a new animal, we often kill it and cut it open to learn about it.

    The existence of aliens would be a great and wonderful discovery. I just fear that they (given their existence) will consider us a scientific find rather than a social/diplomatic one, if that makes sense.


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    Re: Do aliens exist?

    Post by BIG TIME MASTER on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:47 am

    Elite Knight wrote:
    EeAyEss wrote:I'm going to be that religious person, because I am.

    I believe in God, and all that jazz. SO:
    He made this big ***' universe, so why make us the only intelligent life forms out there? It's stupid. I definitely believe that there is alien life out there.

    *As a disclaimer, I mean no harm and do not wish to provoke. I understand that religion is a touchy issue on the internet*

    I'm with you. I hold out hope that God made other beings outside of our understanding, but then again I find it hard to see a point to them. Discovering alien life would be so fantastic, given that I am the science fiction fan that I am. But it's also kind of scary: Think about it. As humans, when we discover some new place, we often destroy what was there to benefit ourselves. When we find a new animal, we often kill it and cut it open to learn about it.

    The existence of aliens would be a great and wonderful discovery. I just fear that they (given their existence) will consider us a scientific find rather than a social/diplomatic one, if that makes sense.

    Just playing devils advocate here, don't take it personal:

    So, humans are the center of the universe? It's only good that other intelligent things exist if they are inferior to us? We are justified in killing for scientific experimentation but something smarter than us isn't?
    If you can't see a point to another life, why would you expect it to respect yours?

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