League of Legends

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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by Reaperfan on Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:16 am

    Latitoast wrote:If people don't like me for picking TF, it'll be their problem Shrug 

    I've seen some bad things out of Sivir, but I do like her.

    Although really Ashe does beat her on abilities, all those freezing abilities are really nice.

    Never underestimate the potential of a spell shield and movement speed bonus on an ADC. They each have their uses, but Sivir beats out Ashe when it comes to options of protecting yourself when you're targeted by enemies.


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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:00 am

    Decided to just go ahead and try out a mage type champ. I'm going with Ryze first because he's free this week, cheap if I like him, and seems decent. Any advice? My builds pretty much done but nothing is set in stone.


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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by Doctor Snuggles on Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:19 am

    As Ryze... his build never really changes too much. Build lots of mana/cdr/resists and just spam your spells as much as you can.

    Start boots with some potions usually since he really needs to play safe before Tear. Tear is always your first item as Ryze - it's basically made for him. After that, Frozen Heart, Muramana, Seraphs Embrace, Rod of Ages, the list goes on and on but keep to mana and resistances for now.

    Obviously play it safe and farm as much as you can before Tear. Max Q first, but usually start W first if they have a very strong early game. Then max W then E and of course taking R when you can.

    Once you have Tear, use your Q whenever it is off CD. Do not stop using Q. Harass, farm, push the lane, then gank. Unlike other mages that have strong early/mid games and somewhat weak late games, Ryze needs time to get going. When he does have a few items he becomes unkillable and a bigger DPS threat than an ADC. He is basically the only late game Hyper AP Carry because of how well he scales with items.

    A good breakpoint would be 3500+ mana at the end of your game.


    Last edited by Doctor Snuggles on Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by Latitoast on Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:20 am

    You wouldn't have anything for Cho'Gath would you?

    I bought him thinking he looked cool, but I don't really know how to play him.


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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by Doctor Snuggles on Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:28 am

    Cho is an amazing top laner, mid laner and jungler. He can be a bit awkward at first though because his kit is a bit odd but he's an amazing peeler and tank. His ult does a gigantic amount of True Damage (most times more than Darius ult at max stacks) and he is quite hard to kill since his ult gives him free HP.

    I'd take him top for now though, maxing his W which is his silence then moving on to Q then E. Start E first though since it gives you a huge boost of damage for no cost and helps with last hitting. It's also good if they try to engage at level one since he deals massive damage on every auto attack.

    Rod of Ages is a really good first item, maybe Sunfire Cape after if you're fighting an AD top or Abyssal Scepter if you're fighting an AP. Don't worry about building too much AP on him as his base damages are huge and scale very very well.

    Cho is also VERY good at helping with last hitting. You have insane amounts of sustain if you are allowed to last hit frequently since his passive heals him when you kill a minion. Try him out though, he can be super funny when he becomes 3x the size of every other champion. : D
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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:57 am

    Ryze is great. Dominated my first try. I did one point Q, W, E, then maxed Q, W, E, hitting R when I could. His combo W, E, R, Q is amazing. Bind them with damage, hit their magic res with damage, enhance your next spell with his R, then blast em with your Q as they're regaining control. Got a ton of kills. I built Archangel's Staff, Sorcerer's Shoes, Rod of Ages, Morellonomicon, then I was working on the Banshee's Veil when we won. Gave him crazy damage on top of casting his E and R first. I killed off Annie with that combo every time she got near me after I bought Rod of Ages.


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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by Spurgun on Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:42 am

    TehInfamousAmos wrote:Haha I am glad that it helped you learn TF. I no longer am a big mid player haha I generally Jungle ADC or Top lane.

     Why do i feel like i have something to do with that? silly
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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by Reaperfan on Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:07 am

    PlasticandRage wrote:Ryze is great. Dominated my first try. I did one point Q, W, E, then maxed Q, W, E, hitting R when I could. His combo W, E, R, Q is amazing. Bind them with damage, hit their magic res with damage, enhance your next spell with his R, then blast em with your Q as they're regaining control. Got a ton of kills. I built Archangel's Staff, Sorcerer's Shoes, Rod of Ages, Morellonomicon, then I was working on the Banshee's Veil when we won. Gave him crazy damage on top of casting his E and R first. I killed off Annie with that combo every time she got near me after I bought Rod of Ages.

    What most players do with Ryze is actually focus less on the AP and more on the mana, since he is unique in that he's the only caster who's damage scales with mana. This allows you to build some really heavy defensive items without losing out on damage. Whenever I see him played, the only AP item that's really bought is Rod of Ages (and even then not every time). People will build things like Frozen Heart, Banshee's Veil, and even choose Manamune over Archangel's because the mana builds up so much quicker. In the end, he's most often actually played as a kind of bruiser rather than a straight mage.


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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by Spurgun on Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:54 am

    archangels on ryze is also a core item, so the 2 ap items you should be building are RoA and archangels. After that, get either frozen heart or banshees depending on wether their ap or ad is giving you more trouble, then the other one.
    Getting a void staff as a last item on ryze is also a viable option.
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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:45 pm

    Most of the items I got increased max mana too I think. The 3 stats I looked for above others were AP, mana, and mana regen, then CD and magic pen. It worked out. I also took flash and a couple of masteries that buff it, which combined with his W made it pretty easy for me to get away from melee champs that didn't just die when they got close. I played with a well played Taric who appeared in my lane every time I got severely outnumbered too, which helped a lot.

    I actually looked over the Manamune before I started my game and I felt like it was too many stats wasted for what I wanted to do. Definitely didn't need attack damage for anything, and I think there was one other thing it offered that I also didn't need. In the end I just felt it wasn't worth taking something else out of my build for.


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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by Doctor Snuggles on Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:52 pm

    PlasticandRage wrote:Most of the items I got increased max mana too I think. The 3 stats I looked for above others were AP, mana, and mana regen, then CD and magic pen. It worked out. I also took flash and a couple of masteries that buff it, which combined with his W made it pretty easy for me to get away from melee champs that didn't just die when they got close. I played with a well played Taric who appeared in my lane every time I got severely outnumbered too, which helped a lot.

    I actually looked over the Manamune before I started my game and I felt like it was too many stats wasted for what I wanted to do. Definitely didn't need attack damage for anything, and I think there was one other thing it offered that I also didn't need. In the end I just felt it wasn't worth taking something else out of my build for.

     Alrighty then, it didn't show any of my post - yaaaay.

    Basically, Manamune turns into Muramana at 1000 mana and becomes a HUGE damage boost for Ryze. It uses 3% of current mana to add bonus physical damage equal to twice the amount of mana consumed.

    Basically you use 30 extra mana when you have 3000 and use Q/W to deal 60 bonus physical damage. I highly recommend getting both Muramana and Seraphs Embrace because they both are so cost efficient. Plus it gives Ryze physical and magical damage so it becomes harder to itemize against him.
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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:01 pm

    Alright alright I'll give it a shot.


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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by TehInfamousAmos on Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:01 pm

    I dont understand the suggestion for roa on cho unless your mid laning.


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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by Spurgun on Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:41 pm

    Or toplaning with him.

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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by Doctor Snuggles on Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:45 pm

    TehInfamousAmos wrote:I dont understand the suggestion for roa on cho unless your mid laning.

     It works really well if you're having trouble in lane because of the Passive. It also gives you Health + Mana early on which lets you take more harassment and being able to dish out more damage. Not entirely sure what isn't to get about that. o.o

    If that Darius top lane is giving you trouble, buying some armor won't help you as much as you think. You'll need health to lessen the blow of his ult and mana for continual harass from a distance since he WANTS you to try to last hit.
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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by TehInfamousAmos on Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:11 pm

    Sadly, ROA is a very popular item that is frequently bought on Cho'Gath. I am going to explain why this is an atrocious item for top lane Cho'Gath and an average item for mid lane Cho'Gath. Top lane Cho should never need to buy health items. Feast stacks already provide more than enough health for Cho, which means you should take advantage of the unique feature that you have. How do you take advantage of free hp from feast? Focus on buying items that give resistances rather than health. The ability power that Rod of Ages gives is absolutely useless to Cho'Gath. Your damage should be coming from your autoattack NOT your skills. Vorpal spikes only has a 0.3 ability power ratio, so there is no reason to build ability power early on in the game. You should push your advantage by buying resistances and rely on your feast stacks to provide the health. You only need to build more health if you find it necessary after you have 6 stacks.


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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by Doctor Snuggles on Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:28 pm

    Alrighty then, I don't think you play much Cho. silly

    He has gigantic scaling on everything but E. 1.0, 0.7, 0.7. That's more potential power than some AP carries. I have only maxed his E once before, and that was on a silly pure attack speed build. It DID work, but only because I was fighting under level 30's.

    At level 6, Feast only gives 90 HP per stack. So 6 minutes after you hit 6, if you use Feast every time on a minion you would only gain 540 HP. 840 (his HP at 6) + 540 = 1380. You could have a Catalyst which provides 200 HP and 300 Mana for 1200 gold which puts you at 1040 HP without using Feast once. Cho needs to be able to stay alive and only relying on Feast is not a valid technique.

    I wouldn't suggest building pure AP on him ever but making him a pure tank really boxes him into using his ult to kill steal because it will be the only thing doing damage. Also, there is no point to attack him if he does build tanky since he has no way of being a threat.

    Cho also doesn't really rely only on AA's... Not sure where that came from but his W + Q combo deals some crazy damage with just a bit of AP - which RoA gives him.
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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:33 pm

    Don't all those feast stacks reset if you die too? That's a lot relying on staying alive consistently, which can be a difficult thing to do depending on who you're fighting. I've top laned Malphite with a Cho before and been left alone almost completely while they targetted Cho over and over again to prevent him from growing. Left me a unique opportunity but the Cho I was playing with was pissed.


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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by TehInfamousAmos on Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:09 pm

    Your feast stacks half if you die... Also I would say that in reality you're not meant to be the damage dealer for the team as cho'gath - you're intended to be a big meaty tank that frontlines. Is the health really going to assist you that much as opposed to the armor in most cases, especially late game. Also if we're talking laning phase as long as you can competently last hit you have good enough sustain to survive most lanes. Also what you were suggesting about the AS piss about build is correct however a better example of a top lane cho build would be something like: NTabs, FHeart, Wit's End, FMallet, Randuins + perhaps if you really were having trouble sustaining top lane if you wanted a source of tenacity and health with regens then you could go a SOAG. Though I would say last item for him would ideally be Liandry's with that suggested build.

    Health wise - lets assume 6 feast stacks level 18 and that suggested build equates to 4280 health. That is more than enough to have and truthfully I would replace NTabs with MTreads btw.
    MR = 105
    Armor = 251

    You may be questioning FM - it is a 40% AOE slow with the vorpal spikes which also will double the damage of the Liandry's DOT. Liandry's dot works like Nauti W - the first tick is applied on hit and the others proceed over the rest of the duration. So 1.33% is applied AOE on hit then with wits end you achieve an Attack speed of 1.05 therefore you are proccing 2.66% approx. of someones current health each time you AA' + the 80 damage from Vorpal Spikes + 42 from WEnd which is strong tbh in a teamfight if you're accounting for the AOE'ing of it. Tbh 305 base damage is fine on Q and 275 on W cause the primary reason you're using these is for their utility. Though my suggestion of liandry's gains you 50 AP + the obvious MPen and Health. You may be stating though my MPen is kind of appalling so I will deal lacklustre damage. You can run 9/21/0 with cho and run MPen Marks though I prefer HPen due to the amount of AA'ing you're doing - I have theorycrafted this build out and truth be told the only thing I perhaps would replace with a ROA would be the Liandry's which would be less effective in reality.


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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by TehInfamousAmos on Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:14 pm

    I see countless Cho'gath players max feral scream first and end up losing lane because they cannot sustain themselves or push fast enough. This skill adds so much damage to your autoattacks and on top of that, it is AoE. This skill makes last hitting under tower very easy and you can farm very efficiently without using any mana. The reason why I adore this skill so much is because your main source of damage is not mana reliant.

    Generally with the suggested concept from me i would say that you should play passive and be reactive.

    Skill order I argue would be R > E > W > Q

    Vorpal spikes is so strong in lane. Your autoattacks do so much damage and you can farm without being mana reliant. You will drastically outsustain almost any champion early on (including Yorick!). Once you get autoattack items, vorpal spikes really add up. Feral scream is maxed second because it is more reliable to land. Besides the fact that longer silence is always better, it is way more reliable than rupture. Ruptures crowd control length is the same no matter what level it is.


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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by Doctor Snuggles on Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:31 pm

    You can't rely on E for your damage. If you max E first you push the lane so much when you go to last hit. Yes - you may turn it off but what if you fight someone who pokes or has DoT's or range or just super mobile?

    Cho needs to be able to damage/farm from a distance. He isn't a tanky beast early game, he usually loses lane if the enemy decides to go all in early on.

    Also, Armor/MR has been nerfed quite badly in Season 3 so building Health early then transitioning to Armor is smarter in most cases. Brutalizer will chunk through your armor while it sure won't do much vs your increase of health.

    It looks like you don't really know how Frozen Mallet works but... It only slows the MS of the person you are attacking. There is no AoE slow, it is only transferred via auto attacks. Also, the current % health damage on Liandry's is reduced by MR so it isn't the best buy on someone like Cho Gath with no Mpen (or your very small amount of it).

    I've played about 3000 games of League so far and I've been around for quite a bit of changes throughout seasons. Maxing W is your best choice in all categories. Mid/Top/Jungle - it's the best skill to max for him. E is a one point wonder because Cho has no gap closers whatsoever. Yes, Q can be an initiation but only if someone is caught out SUPER out of place because of the range and the slow reaction of the spell.
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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by TehInfamousAmos on Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:59 pm

    derped hard lol I forgot that it doesn't apply to aa enhancers.


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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by TehInfamousAmos on Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:02 pm

    Bare in mind I didnt play during S2 only during 1 and 3 so have missed out on a large chunk of experience. My plat experience from s1 is useless tbh cause I played mid a lot at the higher elos.


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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:05 am

    I may have asked something like this already, but if I did I can't remember the answer. If I were to put an autoattack oriented passive on Kayle would it trigger through her Righteous Fury?

    Never mind. Found the answer.


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    Re: League of Legends

    Post by Doctor Snuggles on Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:16 am

    PlasticandRage wrote:I may have asked something like this already, but if I did I can't remember the answer. If I were to put an autoattack oriented passive on Kayle would it trigger through her Righteous Fury?

    Never mind. Found the answer.

     She's actually one of if not the only champion that can use both Runaan's and Hydra. I wouldn't ever get either of those on her but it's still pretty interesting.

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    Re: League of Legends

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