Why are invaders looked down upon?

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    Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by Rudmed on Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:18 am

    I understand they invaded your world in a hard game, but I see people excusing hackers because the hackers were the ones that got invaded. I litterally want to slap the people that think this way. You are given an option if whether or not you want to participate in PvP, its called being human.

    Am I the only one that notices this?


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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:52 am

    Im in agreement with you on this one. Youn never have to be human and can alway just die again after you activate an NPC phantom and take their goodies.

    So why is it that I get gestures like "point down" and 'Well what is it" when I GL or invade?

    True I am out there to kill you. But you could simply have avoided that by playing in hollow form.

    And if people pull the whole....aww it hard and I want to co op it.... we then you have to expect these things will happen.

    I mean I can understand that not everyone wants to PvP and simply wants to quest their way through the game.... but acting in a disrepectful manner because someone who does want to PvP enters your world is not acceptable.

    I wouldn't even mind if the Chain/Lag Stabbed me or parried or I dont know avoided me to the boss room.... but when people gesture at you or send you messages after the fight accusing you of being the bad guy is the surest way of making me comeback to get revenge.


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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by Rudmed on Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:14 am

    However even if you co-op it then you have aid, or someone to help you! I just really don't see how it is my fault, and let us not forget the most important fact!

    I DIDN'T CHOOSE TO INVADE YOUR WORLD! The entire system is random, so don't blame people who were randomly tossed into your world.


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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by Rifter7 on Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:39 am

    i don't understand.. topic says invaders are looked down upon, hackers being invaded is okay and then you want to slap people..

    what are we talking about?


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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by Rudmed on Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:22 am

    I've seen people hate on the invaders when they invade the hackers, and treat the invaders like dirt. That is the reason why I want to slap people. Some people just ignore the fact the host was hacking and get pissed off at the invader.


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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by reim0027 on Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:29 am

    This game is supposed to be hard. Being invaded will offset the advantage of coop.

    And, it is part of the game. A major part. I understand it sucks being killed while questing, but that is the risk you take when playing this game.


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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:28 pm

    Questers have the option of exiting which is what I do when I coop and don't want to be invaded. Pain in the ***, but better than having to reclaim your souls/humanity.

    Invaders are fighting on their terms with their best gear. Yes, they can encounter much higher opponents so everything isn't fair from their perspective.

    But when I quest with a friend, which is a lot, unless we're at at part of the game where we do have top gear (much later) quitting is much better.


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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by goober0331 on Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:43 pm

    Invaders tick people off because constantly getting lag stabbed to death or lag contributing to your shots registering/not is very frustrating, especially on new players.

    And players know this, so they abuse the lagstab. I've seen countless number of fights get prolonged because two people are just circling, looking for that all important lagstab.....
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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:20 pm

    goober0331 wrote:Invaders tick people off because constantly getting lag stabbed to death or lag contributing to your shots registering/not is very frustrating, especially on new players.

    And players know this, so they abuse the lagstab. I've seen countless number of fights get prolonged because two people are just circling, looking for that all important lagstab.....

    Thats a poor generalisation and not really an argument to justify how some players act.

    Hosts are the first to BS fish and chainstab when it suits them but as soon as they throw down the gauntlet and go for PvP they are also some of the first to complain about such cheap tactics.

    Now that we have balance out the number of poor generalisations here...... see above...

    we can move on to my actual point.

    No matter whether or not you got invaded at a specific time, be it good or bad, it does not warrant behavior that you yourself would not want to be subject to if you were PvPing.


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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by n0rain on Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:21 am

    I personally have issues with Dark Wraith's because every one of them go for a quick BS. I had this guy in dukes attack my cleric build today. He would bow then try to lag stab. I could tell because when I rolled backwards he pivoted to where his back was facing me. The whole time he tried to circle me. I had a crescent Axe so I was fending him off pretty well, and I even got his health really low. Then I ran out of stamina and guess what, lag stab. I just laughed and denied him the indictment.
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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by cloudyeki on Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:37 am

    I personally dislike DMs. Most of them just go for super fast kills (in dueling areas mind you) and then point down as if I was caught with my hands in the cookie jar.


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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by n0rain on Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:41 am

    cloudyeki wrote:I personally dislike DMs. Most of them just go for super fast kills (in dueling areas mind you) and then point down as if I was caught with my hands in the cookie jar.



    I only see jerk blades every once in a while to be honest. I think most of them are just roleplaying though.
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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:47 am

    Oh well theres no point in complaing about it because the game is the way it is.

    Also as a rule of thumb I do hate Darkwraiths but thats only because I cant get eyes off of them during my gravelording lol!

    So I live by my mantra.

    "If its Red , the kill it Dead, If its blue, a glourious fight Ill give to you"!


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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by goober0331 on Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:39 am

    ViralEnsign_ wrote:
    goober0331 wrote:Invaders tick people off because constantly getting lag stabbed to death or lag contributing to your shots registering/not is very frustrating, especially on new players.

    And players know this, so they abuse the lagstab. I've seen countless number of fights get prolonged because two people are just circling, looking for that all important lagstab.....

    Thats a poor generalisation and not really an argument to justify how some players act.

    Hosts are the first to BS fish and chainstab when it suits them but as soon as they throw down the gauntlet and go for PvP they are also some of the first to complain about such cheap tactics.

    Now that we have balance out the number of poor generalisations here...... see above...

    we can move on to my actual point.

    No matter whether or not you got invaded at a specific time, be it good or bad, it does not warrant behavior that you yourself would not want to be subject to if you were PvPing.

    Ah yes I'm making a generalization about how the community plays when it can be agreed upon without any doubt that the majority of players who PvP abuse the backstab mechanic.

    Its also quite ironic that you say my statement about invaders always going for the BS is a generalization, when you yourself put that title on hosts who " are first to BS and chainstab etc etc". Your contradicting what you just said.
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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by cloudyeki on Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:41 am

    Oh for the love of..... Can't we just get along?!?!


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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:52 am

    Sorry if I came off that way it was not my intention.

    A poor choice of words on my part.


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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by reim0027 on Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:42 am

    As a dedicated invader, I try not to BS fish. However, when you are 3 vs 1, it is different. You need to reduce their numbers ASAP and they BS fish worse (imagine BS fish x3). So, yeah, I go for BS alot when I'm outnumbered. When it is 1 vs 1, that is different. I'll use BS as part of my strategy, but not as my sole strategy.

    Will I BS fish? Sometimes, depending on my opponent's strategy. I'll also counter BS. Will I chain BS? Sometimes, again, depending on their strategy.

    Try invading for a few times, you'll see what I mean. And, BS fishing is not limited solely to invaders. It is ubiquitous among PvP.


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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by Christoph on Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:04 pm

    reim0027 wrote:As a dedicated invader, I try not to BS fish. However, when you are 3 vs 1, it is different. You need to reduce their numbers ASAP and they BS fish worse (imagine BS fish x3). So, yeah, I go for BS alot when I'm outnumbered. When it is 1 vs 1, that is different. I'll use BS as part of my strategy, but not as my sole strategy.

    Will I BS fish? Sometimes, depending on my opponent's strategy. I'll also counter BS. Will I chain BS? Sometimes, again, depending on their strategy.

    Try invading for a few times, you'll see what I mean. And, BS fishing is not limited solely to invaders. It is ubiquitous among PvP.

    I just need to ask: Do you play Dks on console?
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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by n0rain on Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:13 pm

    I think people mistake my strafe for BS fishing whhich may be the reason my dark spirits always fish too, but I would like to think that going for a dead angle is considerably more noticable and different than bs fishing.
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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by bloodpixel on Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:01 pm

    Personally I'm more interested in invaders who think I should play honorably when I have 9 million souls and 99 humanity.


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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by BLA1NE on Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:05 pm

    reim0027 wrote:Try invading for a few times, you'll see what I mean.
    This.

    Anyone who has never invaded has no right to complain about invaders, because they have no idea what they're talking about, only having experienced their side of the encounter. And I'm certain anyone, who has invaded more than a few times, no longer complains about invaders! For a few reasons:

    - They realize it's not all rainbows and butterflies and welcoming parties for invaders.

    - They realize invading can also be fun as hell!

    So if anyone ever complains about invaders, just tell them to try it themselves a few times and, until they do, shut the hell up! If they still feel like complaining once they've tried it for themselves, at least they'll be able to formulate real arguments that come from personal experience on both sides of the fence.

    (My opinion on invaders, as I've stated numerous times before, is that they're an intrinsic and essential part of the game. Without invaders, you couldn't have co-op, otherwise Dark Souls would be a joke. And if Dark Souls had no co-op, invasion, or if it was a joke, it just wouldn't be Dark Souls!)


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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by reim0027 on Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:54 pm

    Christoph wrote:
    reim0027 wrote:As a dedicated invader, I try not to BS fish. However, when you are 3 vs 1, it is different. You need to reduce their numbers ASAP and they BS fish worse (imagine BS fish x3). So, yeah, I go for BS alot when I'm outnumbered. When it is 1 vs 1, that is different. I'll use BS as part of my strategy, but not as my sole strategy.

    Will I BS fish? Sometimes, depending on my opponent's strategy. I'll also counter BS. Will I chain BS? Sometimes, again, depending on their strategy.

    Try invading for a few times, you'll see what I mean. And, BS fishing is not limited solely to invaders. It is ubiquitous among PvP.

    I just need to ask: Do you play Dks on console?
    I play on PS3.


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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:16 pm

    The most common one I get in hate mail is that the questers are often completely incapable of defending themselves from a determined and experienced invader and so the fight isn't fair and I'm griefing.

    I'm usually at sl80 in dark londo, the forest, demon ruins, and new londo, in part to try to insure that my opponents are geared well enough to defend themselves as a maxed lightning weapon and maxed armor are easily obtainable by those points, and I keep a +10 weapon on me in case they are undergeared.

    My counter points are that death is a part of dark souls (if anyone tells me they played through the game on their first time without dieing I'm calling BS) and a death at the hands of any enemy is the same as a death at the hands of a player and one should use the same attitude towards both. Not "that wasn't fair," but "what can I learn from this." Engaging the hostile player is also optional, you can run for the gate, hide, ambush, ect. to get rid of them, you can even try asking them to leave (unlike npcs).

    Invaders also cannot chose who they invade, so I cannot control wether orr not I get an inexperienced quester or a battle hardened vet.


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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by n0rain on Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:30 pm

    @Blaine and Reim

    I went my entire demon's souls career without invading people because I thought it was evil and I make a point to be a "good" character. Are you telling me this style or code of ethics should be compromised based on a "you don't know man, you weren't in nam" kind of mindset?

    Just for the record, I feel from a lore perspective the Darkwraiths should be looked down on and Darkmoons should be revered and overall respected for their duties. That's just me though.

    My counter points are that death is a part of dark souls (if anyone tells me they played through the game on their first time without dieing I'm calling BS)

    Glitch to the kiln and parry. No death completed playthrough and on the first try because the game is overall buggy as you know what. Fromsoft actually admitted to it.

    death at the hands of any enemy is the same as a death at the hands of a player

    Please explain? As is stated, this logic seems broken.
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    Re: Why are invaders looked down upon?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:36 pm

    An opponent is an opponent, people are just tougher.

    For the record I'm a dm

    I seriously doubt anyone did that first playthrough, what would be the point? I also never said it wasn't possible, just that I'd call BS, and I would.


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