lets complain about *spoiler*!

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    bloodpixel
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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by bloodpixel on Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:52 am

    With the DWGR gone, I wonder how PvP will be like.


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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by Rifter7 on Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:55 am

    full of people breathing deeply and pretending not to care that the dwgr is gone after they realize how insane having a 25% roll breakpoint is compared to des's 50%.


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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by Juutas on Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:56 am

    bloodpixel wrote:With the DWGR gone, I wonder how PvP will be like.

    It will be as it was supposed to be: tanks as tanks, ninjas as ninjas.


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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by bloodpixel on Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:58 am

    No middle ground?


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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:04 am

    it will be dodgy spear users handspring circles around everyone else until they've poked everything to death from low orbit.



    As for faith, I wouldn't change anything this time around, but in the next game I'd make it all regen, damage recuction and control. Spells like vos and force to screw with peoples game plans. no direct damage or damage buffs, give them all to sorcery.


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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by Juutas on Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:09 am

    Sure there is middle ground, but now you have to always sacrifice something to get something.


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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:17 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:it will be dodgy spear users handspring circles around everyone else until they've poked everything to death from low orbit.
    .

    After practicing with Doughguy the Long Spear is something I do not fear anymore.

    One you learn how to beat it itll be easy.


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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:25 am

    When my str builds cannot get close enough to hit or get stunlocked every time they get hit? No it won't. I can beat doughs spear as well, but its difficult at best when I can fast roll and tank hits. Cant do it if I can't do both, and there are better players than dough who simply mual me, reguardless of my weapon or build., unless I resort to using a spear.


    I'm telling you, anyone whos half decent with a spear and is using the dwgr, while everyone else has to fast roll or less, is going to dominate everything. They already do in practiced hands, its only going to get worse.


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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:27 am

    Im not so sure about that but as you will


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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:44 am

    Do you use str weapons much? Ask rant, or wyrm. I can't be positive they'll agree with me, but I believe they will. Outside the great hammers roll r1, which will be more difficult to use effectively as the fast roll is necessary, there's really not much ugs, great hammers, or great axes can do about a good spear user, even it the ug weapon user can fast roll. the beiber ring nerf will make achieving the movement speed necessary difficult, and cost the poise necessary to be able to deal with greatswords effectively.

    I checked, rant is thinking about going dragon and 0 poise to make his work, and 0 poise is a serious handicapp, beiber ring or no, and wyrm admits that his str builds will need the poise for handling greatswords and the mobility for handling spears and he won't be able to have both. They're the biggest str weapon users, other than myself, that I'm aware of.


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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by WyrmHero on Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:52 am

    I'm planning an anti spear Str build, it must have +124 poise, medium roll. The thing is to win a battle of R1 spammage (what most spear users do when you get close). So the monster will be able to resist 4 two handed spear pokes, hopefully stunlocking the poker instead to death.


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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:01 am

    they out range you, any decent user will poke from out of your range. It will win when you can bait a spam contest I'm sure, but thats not the issue.

    Also, can I see? Asside from twop and a composite bow I haven't seen a successful anti spear setup, If yours works i'll be very excited


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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by WyrmHero on Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:25 am

    http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=4319054477200698

    The shield is for turtling strategy in case HP gets low. A pike ready to menu swap. Also if you lower Str to 27, equip Eagle Shield, you can increase faith to 30 for some miracles. Karmic Justice could be useful if you turtle/spam fest.


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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:04 am

    I think they'll just roll around poking you. They'll just chip you to death if you turtle, unless they get impatient.


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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by Juutas on Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:39 am

    Best tactic against spears I've noticed is to move fast without lock on, that'll f*ck up their pokes and you can easily run to score hit to the side or bs them (with ugs you unfortunately have to resort to backstabbing since there is really not time for normal attack, except maybe running R1).
    I'm not denying that spears are pain in the *** though big grin


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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:55 am

    My point. Dex builds (including spears) can still beiber roll and have 76 poise, so they don't change much. But str builds can't, so the loss of movement speed is something only str weapon users suffer, unless we go under the 53 poise break, under the 41 with the heavier weapons. That kind of poise loss for such a slow weapon isn't acceptable, I get most of my hits by trading, not a good trade if I'm stunlocked.

    With ug weapons the running attack is suicidal, you'll just get bsd. Maybey your connection is better than mine was but strafing, lock on or off, wouldn't dodge a spear thrust. I'd take the hit, and when i tried to run in I'd take 1 or 2 more before they flip away and dodge whatever attack I tried (using ug weapons). Without the i frames, that they still get btw, rolling close enough to hit punish them isn't possible unless they screw up their spacing really badly.



    As I stated elsewhere, my problem is that dex builds can still use the beiber ring at 40 end to roll around at 76 poise, when str builds would need serious end gouging, and still can't hit 76 poise AND use the beiber ring.

    That was really the issue with the ring anyways, so taking it away from str weapons in competitive builds but letting nearly every dex build be perfectly capable is so unbalanced its not even funny. Dex weapons were already largely better than str weapons, why then would it seem like a good idea to make it worse.


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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by lordgodofhell on Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:18 am


    3 Words my comrades, learn to parry

    armor means nothing when this is mastered. i have not mastered it, but I practice parry more than flipping XD


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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by Juutas on Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:22 am

    My bet is there are going to be LOTS AND LOTS OF PYROMANCERS in the future and it really scares me because in closed space Pyros are the most annoying thing there is.
    Most used rings will be: fap ring, wolf ring, bellowing dragon crest ring and Havel's ring and maybe the hornet ring IF it is not nerfed (someone needs to confirm this).
    There is still many things we don't know about the new patch fixes.


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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by Juutas on Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:24 am

    lordgodofhell wrote:
    3 Words my comrades, learn to parry

    armor means nothing when this is mastered. i have not mastered it, but I practice parry more than flipping XD

    Spears are the hardest weapons to parry + if the spear user is wise enough he will keep the distance which makes parrying impossible.


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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:26 am

    I can parry. Doesn't change thr fact that dex builds get to flip around and be immune to 1hit stunlocks, while str builds don't.

    Besides, reliably parrying a sks or demons spear at the edge of it range isn't, to my knowledge, possible. Its just to far away, even when I do land a parry towards the back 1/4 of its range, its often to far away for me to riposte in time.

    When it was unbalanced everywhere its fine, but when its unbalanced in a way that makes str weapons even less viable, I'm not happy.


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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by Juutas on Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:50 am

    Btw guys! Hornet ring is also nerfed ; ) oh lordy this is great!


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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by Wisp on Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:53 am

    In what way?
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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:57 am

    apparently its down to 30%, havent seen proof though.


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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by omega Elf on Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:04 am

    http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=4251356661540682
    you lose about 600hp on a roll bs build which is no big deal it's
    heavy builds that will suffer losing all that mobility and hp, 1hko
    bs will be even easier.
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    Re: lets complain about *spoiler*!

    Post by befowler on Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:14 am

    So DWGR and Hornets seem to be the big ones, but are there others? Have any of the weapons themselves been tweaked?


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