Dark Moon Blade - AYNTK (All you need to know!) - from old forum

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    meridam99
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    Dark Moon Blade - AYNTK (All you need to know!) - from old forum

    Post by meridam99 on Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:30 pm

    kim1519Dec 5, 2011 10:59 pm



    This post is influenced by the forum Dark Souls researcher 8741N3. His research about Crystal Magic Weapon (CMW) was the primary motivation for this research project.



    Since 8741N3 had pointed out the potential of using spell to buff normal weapons, I am interested in investigating the differences between the three spell buffs in the game: CMW, Sunlight Blade (SLB), and Darkmoon Blade (DMB). Therefore, I had made my character to investigate the potential of DMB.



    Method

    I kept track on the dmg output of DMB per faith and per magic adjust as I leveled from Faith 30 to Faith 45. The character I collected my data with was a STR/FAI build. The main weapon I tested with was the Man-serpent Greatsword +14 (Later reinforced to +15). My STR had kept constant at 34. All the data collected was depended at Rank 3 of Darkmoon Covenant.



    Results

    I had an excel file keeping all my data. I am not going to provide the entire spreadsheet to you here on the forum because it is too long to type all the data in here. Therefore, I digest the data here and give you a brief summary.



    1) Like CMW, DMB is also scale with Magic adjust of your talisman rather than your faith level. But faith is scaled with the magic adjust of your talisman. Therefore, using the highest magic adjust talisman will give the best buff.



    2) Like CMW, the amount of damage buffed by DMB does not increase if equipping the Crown of Dusk, Ring of the Sun's Firstborn, and Ring of the Sun Princess. (Untested the effect of Bellowing Dragoncrest Ring, but previous research by 8741N3 showed that it does not increase the damage of CMW)



    3)Ranking up in the Darkmoon Covenant does increase the DMB buff damage. The amount increased at rank 2 is the same amount increased at rank 3. At Magic Adjust 172, Rank 2 DMB buff adds 17 more damage than Rank 1. Rank 3 DMB buff adds 17 more damage than Rank 2.



    Now I am going to provide the damage increase data of the DMB from 170 Magic Adjust to 190 to show you the general pattern.

    (*DMG+ = Damage Prebuff - Damage Postbuff)

    MA DMG+*

    170 357

    171 359

    172 361

    173 365

    174 367

    175 369

    176 371

    177 372

    178 374

    179 376

    180 379

    181 380

    182 384

    183 Unknown

    184 387

    185 389

    186 391

    187 394

    188 395

    189 397

    190 399



    This data indicates that with every MA point equal to 1 to 4 points more damage by DMB.



    Now, I am going to provide you the data of highest Magic Adjust from Faith 30 to 45



    FAI MA DMG+ Talisman

    30 172 361 Canvas Talisman

    31 173 365 Canvas Talisman

    32 175 369 Canvas Talisman

    33 177 372 Canvas Talisman

    34 179 376 Canvas Talisman

    35 181 380 Canvas Talisman

    36 182 384 Canvas Talisman

    37 184 387 Canvas Talisman

    38 186 391 Canvas Talisman

    39 187 394 Canvas Talisman

    40 191 401 Darkmoon Talisman

    41 194 403 Darkmoon Talisman

    42 198 417 Darkmoon Talisman

    43 201 423 Darkmoon Talisman

    44 205 431 Darkmoon Talisman

    45 208 438 Darkmoon Talisman



    The data showed that at Faith 30 to 39, Canvas Talisman gave the highest Magic Adjust and therefore it is the best talisman for DMB. From Faith 30 to 39, the Canvas Talisman only increases 1 to 2 Magic Adjust Points per Faith.



    However, at Faith 40 to 45, Darkmoon Talisman became superior. It increase 3 to 4 Magic Adjust Points per Faith.



    Also the DMG+ Magic Adjust Ratio is about to be 2.1 from Faith 30 to 45.



    According to the Dark Soul Calculator for Catalyst & Talisman

    Darkmoon Talisman will remain to be the highest Magic Adjust Talisman at and after 40 Faith. From Faith 45 to 50, the Darkmoon blade also increases 3 to 4 Magic Adjust Points per Faith point. However, anything after Faith 50, the Magic Adjust stops increasing significantly (50 Faith = 226 Magic Adjust / 60 Faith = 228 Magic Adjust)



    Discussion

    The DMB adds a substantial amount of damage to normal upgraded weapon. Even at the minimal Faith level (30), the damage increase is quite significant. However, the DMB damage increases the most during Faith 40-50 due to better scaling of Darkmoon Talisman at Faith 40-50 than Canvas Talisman at Faith 30-39. But anything added after 50 are just waste and unnecessary. Therefore, if you have a lot of spare points left for your character, 50 Faith

    will give you the most return.



    Now comparing the data of CMW provided by 8741N3,

    CMW DMB

    INT MA DMG+ FAI MA DMG+

    32 254 357 32 175 369

    35 261 366 35 181 380

    44 280 393* 44 205 431

    50 293 401 50 226 475*



    (Note* This data is collected by my other char who have 44 INT)



    (Note this data is unconfirmed. 8741N3 provided his 50 INT CMW postbuff damage on +15 Warpick, 657, but he did not provide the prebuff damage. He also provided his character stat STR 12 and DEX 12. According to the Dark Souls Calculator, +15 Warpick with 1 hand (assuming 8741N3 collected his data by 1 hand damage) is 256. Therefore, 401 is found out by 657 - 256 = 401.)



    (Note* This data is also unconfirmed because my character does not have 50 Faith. This number is calculated according to the Dark Souls Calculator. At 50 Faith, Magic Adjust for Darkmoon Talisman is 226. Using the DMG+ Magic Adjust Ratio, 2.1, 226 x 2.1 = 474.6.)



    Although the numbers at Faith 50 and Int 50 are unconfirmed, if the number is true, then DMB has better potential than CMW in the higher respective stats.



    Overall, DMB gives better damage than CMW. However, DMB also has its downfalls:

    1) Only 1 cast, no matter how many playthroughs you have completed

    2) Can only be used when belong to the Darkmoon Covenants

    3) Cannot kill Gwynevere & Gwyndolin

    4) Need to obtain 80 Souvenirs of Reprisal for the full potential (should not be a problem if you like pvping)



    Hope this research will help people with their build around DMB. Future research needs to do a similar research on Sunlight Blade to fully compare the three spell buffs in the game.











    re: Darkmoon Blade Test Data

    NoctesDec 5, 2011 11:14 pm



    Good stuff, good stuff.



    Now, Sunlight Blade...











    re: Darkmoon Blade Test Data

    NoctesDec 5, 2011 11:18 pm



    I now have an interest in making a pure Darkmoon Blade build wearing only Silver Knight's armor, sword and shield, fully upgraded.



    It'll obviously be a Faith/Dexterity build. What class do you think I should start out at?



    ...Would making it Pyromancer just automatically make it more efficient?











    re: Darkmoon Blade Test Data

    cheekykuntDec 5, 2011 11:26 pm



    @Noctes

    use the class that starts with Intellect the lowest since it is the only stat you won't raise from base (not including resitence)



    which would be Bandit or Cleric (both start with 8 intellect) Pyro starts with 10 so you would have 2 extra points starting with Bandit or Cleric.











    re: Darkmoon Blade Test Data

    HarBringerDec 5, 2011 11:27 pm



    If you want a faith/dex build, find whatever class has the highest combined total of End, Vit, Faith and Dex, then add to that number the amounts of levels they would need to be level 6 (Max leveled started) this will tell you what class gives you the most bang for your buck.











    re: Darkmoon Blade Test Data

    NoctesDec 5, 2011 11:43 pm



    Cleric - 42 + 4 = 46

    Knight - 46 + 1 = 47

    Warrior - 45 + 2 = 47

    Wanderer - 42 + 3 = 45

    Thief - 44 + 1 = 45

    Bandit - 45 + 2 = 47

    Hunter - 45 + 2 = 47

    Sorcerer - 35 + 3 = 38

    Pyromancer - 38 + 5 = 43

    Deprived - 44



    Thanks for that HarBringer. According to this, the best classes to start out as for this build would be Knight, Warrior, Bandit, or Hunter, which frankly is quite surprising.











    re: Darkmoon Blade Test Data

    HarBringerDec 6, 2011 12:05 am



    Those would be the best classes, but Attunement hasn't been taken into account, as frankly, I had no idea if you were planning on using any.

    Here, I added Attunement to the totals, for if you want to use at least 3 other miracles to like.... heal or something.



    Cleric - 42 + 4 = 46 + 11 = 57

    Knight - 46 + 1 = 47 + 10 = 57

    Warrior - 45 + 2 = 47 + 8 = 55

    Wanderer - 42 + 3 = 45 + 11 = 56

    Thief - 44 + 1 = 45 + 11 = 56

    Bandit - 45 + 2 = 47 + 8 = 55

    Hunter - 45 + 2 = 47 + 9 = 56

    Sorcerer - 35 + 3 = 38 + 15 = 53

    Pyromancer - 38 + 5 = 43 + 12 = 55

    Deprived - 44 + 11 = 55



    Now, it's either Knight or Cleric with the optimal stats.

    Counting like this takes ages, but when it comes down to it, you'll get the best results.











    re: Darkmoon Blade Test Data

    NoctesDec 6, 2011 12:15 am



    Yeah, attunement was something I need, you know, for DMB and all, lol.



    I was thinking of using that, WoG, and Great Heal.



    OK, so...using the damage calculator, the Silver Knight sword +5 does 383 damage two-handed, NOT including the extra buff from DMB. What should I add to the 383 to get an accurate number?











    re: Darkmoon Blade Test Data

    HarBringerDec 6, 2011 12:18 am



    Can you even buff silver knight weapons?











    re: Darkmoon Blade Test Data

    NoctesDec 6, 2011 12:19 am



    Yes, as of the recent patch you can. Black Knight you still cannot though.











    re: Darkmoon Blade Test Data

    HarBringerDec 6, 2011 12:26 am



    Dayum, that's very interesting, very interesting indeed.



    Anyways, you're a faith build, so you'll run around 45 at the bare minimum, which according to the data would mean you need the Darkmoon talismen, which would give you a buff of about....438, putting you at 821....



    That's a really high number :y











    re: Darkmoon Blade Test Data

    8741N3Dec 6, 2011 12:28 am



    The numbers you used to compare CMW to DMB were from the Tin Crystallization Catalyst, right? So it would be important to note that, in that particular scenario, both spells only have one casting (although CMW has the potential of attunment stacking with multiple playthroughs).



    And I could provide the base numbers for the warpick--don't know why I didn't post them in the first place!



    Oh, also, the numbers I gathered were pre-patch. I could quickly re-test a few of them.



    I'm surprised (and a little disappointed) that the buff/ Mag Adj wasn't a constant number. Would have been nice to get an easy and precise equation. Is the DMB buff the same for weapons of different base damage rating?



    Thanks for the research! I guess I have to do Sunlight Blade now... silly











    re: Darkmoon Blade Test Data

    NoctesDec 6, 2011 12:33 am



    So sleepy.. got like.. 3 hours of sleep...



    Ok, so you suggest 45 faith? my "build" currently is sitting at 39..











    re: Darkmoon Blade Test Data

    HarBringerDec 6, 2011 12:41 am



    I assumed you would be in the PvP range of 120, but after taking a look at your build, you're 55 levels lower then I thought you'd be. 39 Faith for that level is good, but if you're planing on going at 39, some other things need to be taken into account.



    You'll instead be using the canvas talismen to maximize results. Also, I say ditch the 39 faith, and either go 36 (To use bountiful sunlight) or 30 (for wrath of god)



    Those nine points add a total of 33 damage to your weapon, and only give you access to 1 miracle you wouldn't be able to cast at 39 faith.



    Those nine points could help you alot in Endurance and vitality, instead of a 30 point increase in damage.











    re: Darkmoon Blade Test Data

    kim1519Dec 6, 2011 12:48 am



    @8741N3 Right. Like the CMW, DMB increases the same amount on different weapons.



    And after this finding, I think Sorcery is really in a bad position compared to Miracles. Unless you are every effective with using Crystal Soul Spear or Homing Soul Mass.











    re: Darkmoon Blade Test Data

    8741N3Dec 6, 2011 12:58 am



    After having used both combinations:



    - CMW, with HCSM and CSS



    VS



    - Sunlight Blade, with WoG



    I can easily say Fth wins out! The AoE is simply invaluable in PvP, versus easy to dodge spells. Also, WoG = protection from getting backstabbed, whereas casting magic is the exact opposite: asking to get bsed! Really, magic is best left to Mages, and Miracles can make great hybrid builds for melee.



    I'll do a few things in the coming days:

    -Quickly re-test CMW post-patch

    -Consolidate findings in a CMW ver 2.0 thread

    -Test Sunlight Blade



    After that, we'll have some nice data on all 3 weapon buff spells. big grin











    re: Darkmoon Blade Test Data

    kim1519Dec 6, 2011 2:20 am



    So I edited the miracle page... but lacking a photo/image of it. If anyone feels like helping big grin











    re: Darkmoon Blade Test Data

    kim1519Dec 6, 2011 2:32 am



    @8741N3 Btw if you going to test the Sunlight Blade, do you think your rank in Sunlight covenant will affect the buff big grin?



    But I know it can be hell to obtain the sunlight medals :X











    re: Darkmoon Blade Test Data

    8741N3Dec 6, 2011 2:45 am



    I'm actually a Darkwraith! winking



    But since Sunlight Cov already has Sunlight Spear that scales with your rank, I doubt it also affects the spell. But this is one thing I won't be able to test... I hate waiting around to get summoned. I'll do it once in a while, but most of the time I just invade because of how quick it is.











    re: Darkmoon Blade Test Data

    trifectafunkDec 7, 2011 1:15 pm



    I am curious why you can't get another darkmoon blade spell in NG+?

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