Moonlight Magic

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    Moonlight Magic

    Post by User on Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:31 am

    Hm... This is the most troubling of any kind of magic. I understand Sorceries well, as I know miracles and Pyromancy. Sorceries extracts and uses the self's soul to use magic power, while miracles uses power from the even more powerful and extracts the power from them (although not dependent, as miracles can be used even after the creator of the miracle, such as Havel or Nito, will still function. However that may be due to time distortion and how these beings will still exist in other worlds). Pyromancy is a revolution from flame magic that was powered from the First Flane, which functions the same however allows power from the sheer self instead of being dependent to a device (catalysts and talismans), and also can use Pyromancy that is not always is fire (although related to it), and also connects to the Chaos Flame's power (Chaos Great Fireball for example). The Miracles and Sorceries may relate to faith or intelligence in order to use them (one to have a better grasp towards another, faith, with intelligence giving the being knowledge). However as Velka's Talisman gets power from Intelligence not Faith, Darkmoon Catalyst acting opposite to Velka's, And Ivory Catalyst and Thorolund Talisman not scaling at all with anything, it shows that faith and intelligence depends on the spells itself, and not necessarily the devices needed to use them. Attunement allowing the player to be attuned with... Whatever they have attuned to.

    I have looked at every spell type, defined it, and had looked for and found information for all of the spell types that are sub-categorized in the three main groups of Attunement spells. I have looked also at weapons and items of magic, such as Dragon weapons and such... But one magic type gives me awe and unsure confirmation: Moonlight Magic

    It's like sorcery, however the creatures who use such magic are known to be pure magic creatures, such as the Butterflies and their maker. It's green, which is unique to only such creatures. Moonlight Artows exist, however they are not the same, being related to Gwyndolin and his men of blades (which gives me a better ideal grasp in terms of relationship between the warlock god and the white dragon). The Magic depends on intelligence, but I question whether it is in similar relationship to sorcery spells or catalysts... Which after long thinking and debate is grey for me. Bloodstains that you extract (except for Darkwraiths being red... For a reason) is the same colour, green... Which holds a large amountvof souls, both normal and humanity (If it has any of both). Death was the grandfather of sorcery, and his dragon weapon shows proof that such creature is made of pure magic, lacking fire (unique to him). The moonlight butterflies seem to be powered by crystal magic as is Seath... However, they hold such magic of Moonlight still, while Seath uses Curse Magic (more attuned to Basilisk Breath than Moonlight). However, the Crystal Ring Shield does not have Crystals, both Crystal Magic... Similar to Crystal Sorceries like Logan uses. (or more appropiatpy crystal power). As crystals of the form (not magic) seems to connect the aspect of an objects soul to the outside (the reason why players can kill ghosts when cursed, and why many things become more powerful, yet brittle... Like a cursed creature), perhaps this form of things disconnects to turbojet moonlight magic. It is similar to Sorceries, however to feels very different somehow.

    Many more things about moonlight filter my mind. I need to understand Seath and his minions to better understand his agenda... But I can't seem to fill in the Moonlight Magic aspect properly. As there is little to no Moonlight Content in Lordran (Compared to every other magic type, excluding red safe Sorceries, which is easy to grasp), I need to find more information for Seath, as well as every other magic creature in Lordran.
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    Re: Moonlight Magic

    Post by skarekrow13 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:02 pm

    Looking for help or venting? I've been back in a research mood a little and don'w mind looking at a thing or two if it can be of assistance


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    Re: Moonlight Magic

    Post by User on Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:25 pm

    Venting mostly.

    I have been looking at the relationship if Velka and all that have evidence of followers of her. Mainly Seath, Gwyndolin, Four Kings (sorta, not really... Complicated factors of deceit), Red Sages, Beatrice, and others... Trying to find more on other beings and their ties. I have been doing well, but the factors of Moonlight are troubling. It seems like an advanced version of Sorcery... Sorcery that is similar to crystals and less to Catalysts, being a form instead of essence projected to be a form... Of sorts. I would like to know more about Moonlight Sorceries. It seems like the Sorcery version of Sunlight Miracles, to me.

    Hm... I still need more information though.

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    Re: Moonlight Magic

    Post by User on Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:52 pm

    Skarekrow, the aspect of Moonlight Magic is fine for me to research alone. Perhaps you can help me quicken it, though.

    I need a Moonlight Greatsword for a character, and a Moonlight Horn Spear and Crystal Ring. I would use them to experiment more in their performance, and perhaps discover a few things. I would appreciate it if you did.

    I think my Sage will need to become more intelligence now
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    Re: Moonlight Magic

    Post by Eolan on Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:10 pm

    All i really know is gwyndolin was born with a tendency towards the moon, and thereby probably moonlight magic. However he uses soul mass type spells generally, and a needle shot spell which is aesthetically similar to the moonlight butterfly's one. Also chameleon type spells illusions and the like seem to be moonlight realted though im drawing that conclusion because of dusk.

    Moonlight magic seems to stand as an opposite to sun spear etc, so i would say whatever conclusions youv'e reached regarding sunlight spear etc can be diametric to moon light.

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    Re: Moonlight Magic

    Post by User on Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:23 pm

    Heh, I meant in terms of rarity and quality moonlight is as to sunlight

    And I am getting a better grasp of moonlight, thanks to sif killing me and showing bloodstains. ****
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    Re: Moonlight Magic

    Post by ublug on Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:56 pm

    The mysteries of souls, crystals, and the sorceries are deeply intertwined. - Not sure if this is related to moon magic as well, or if moon magic is the original art. What we are told is that moon magic is seath's own magic, his original arts, and that he is the grandfather of sorcery. Could his original arts have been of a gentler kind, like the Oolacille arts? Did he make soul/crystal hybrids to create offensive magic? What we also know about moon magic is that girls are more suited to learn it. The moonlight greatsword, butterfly horn and crystal ring shield are the only weapons with moon magic, the ranged weapons also have crystals in their design, but they are all creations of Seath. Their magic type can be blocked by normal magic defense, so they should be the same kind of magic as soul arts and miracles. Crystals, on the other hand, manifests themselves as physical damage. I assume souls are the source for sorceries and crystals for crystal sorceries. They are probably both hybrids of moon magic, but all the arts points back to Seath and his research.

    General observations of some of Seath's minions:
    -The hollow crystal soldiers use the caduceus kite shield, the same shield used by cleric warriors. Why not a crystal shield to go with their crystal swords and bodies? Were they once clerics, perhaps easier to enslave because of their strong belief, or is it just a coincidence?
    -The Channelers cite a verse, similar to how miracles are cast, to fire their soul arrows. They do not use a catalyst or talisman, they either use the Trident or draws the magic directly from within. We do not know how a channeler looks 'undressed' either, but they could be crystallized beings as well.
    -The Moonlight Butterfly. There are some differences between the one found in the garden, and the ones in the crystal cave. The one in the garden has a sparkling effect around it, similar to the effect given off by the flowers along the bridge. The butterfly must pause to drink nectar once in a while, to recharge, which will also regenerate its health slightly. The butterflies in the cave do not have the sparkles, neither do they have to pause. This leads me to believe that the butterflies are dependent upon crystals to survive, and that the flowers in the garden is some kind of crystal substitute, which makes it possible for the butterfly to exist there. The garden butterfly will also bleed blue when shot with arrows, kind of like the crystal soldiers do.
    -The Pisacas also have some kind of moon magic attack (if I'm not mistaken), but it hardly deals any damage. We know that they were maidens and failed experiments as well.

    (as usual I ended up asking more questions than what I was able to clarify)

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    Re: Moonlight Magic

    Post by User on Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:14 pm

    The flawed maidens have a breath more similar to crossbreeds. The information about the butterflies in the cave is helpful, as I am usually a Meier man that stays away from them (or pyromancy).

    The butterflies in the cave seem less strong than the one in the forest. Maybe it lacks crystal, but the essence of moon is there. I wonder if death is trying to take advantage in the endless nights scenario. Smart man.

    I have a better grasp on Moonlight, thank you. Although connected to crystals, I don't think it is entirely dependent upon it. Perhaps the fact is that it would do better if it were in a crystal area with night existing, as well as the magical growth that also connects to the shrubs that can kill (thanks to snubbly the crow for the information).

    It does nit help answer my question, but it helps nonetheless. Will be looking at the moonlight specimens some more

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    Re: Moonlight Magic

    Post by User on Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:17 pm

    Twinkling titanite; that helps a lot
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    Re: Moonlight Magic

    Post by skarekrow13 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:34 pm

    What soul level do you need the weapons on? Should be no problem assuming my internet cooperates


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    Re: Moonlight Magic

    Post by User on Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:00 pm

    I got a 158 or so going threw Anor Londo in NG+++
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    Re: Moonlight Magic

    Post by WyrmHero on Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:14 pm

    Isn't Darkmoon Blade a type of moon magic?


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    Re: Moonlight Magic

    Post by User on Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:16 pm

    Looking at the Miracle, it is more resemblance to the Darkmoon's magic (the Warlock God), than the Moonlight magic associated with Seath and his winged minions
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    Re: Moonlight Magic

    Post by skarekrow13 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:42 pm

    Can try to get it to you tonight. Will be on in maybe a couple hours


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    Re: Moonlight Magic

    Post by User on Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:44 pm

    Alright

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    Re: Moonlight Magic

    Post by User on Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:14 am

    Skare, you there?

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    Re: Moonlight Magic

    Post by User on Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:38 am

    Thank you Skare, you helped me well.

    Form what I got form the butterflies weaponry, it is separated into two separate sections. As the Moonlight Horn states, part of it is pure magic (being that of moonlight). The crystal ring shield, although not actually of crystal in form, has crystal power (similar to regular sorceries changed to be crystallized). With thes etwo combinations together, they make up the butterfly. Curious, as no other creature exists that uses such... pure magic. The question is whether or not this magic is sorcery or not. As sorcery (unlike faith magic spells and weapons usually) is made of pure magic (as seen from the embers of divine/occult and from lightning miracles, showing not pure magic content). Even Seath does not show much in Moonlight content, preferring to use the magic of Crystal Form Magic (a combination of Basilisk Breath and White Dragon Breath). As undead are a form of sorts, it would be very hard if not impossible for a hollow undead to master moonlight magic, although can hold moonlight items (Horn Spear, Greatsword).

    I have a hard time to decide to include the Moonlight Arrows or not, although the colour of it is similar to the Horn Spear. As silver is a colour that closely connects towards the similar aspects of regular souls players find (as well as also shows a good attachment to silver knights, which I have speculated to be 'golems' of souls, similar to how the Stone Knights are run by magic, and the Iron Golem by the bones of a dragon), the arrows seem to show relationship between Gwyndolin and Seath, although vague and small. Still, their relationship has been speculated to be connected well with each other for a while for me, and is still strong. It is also added that Gwyndolin is associated with the Moon, with the moon being Silver/Grey in many depictions. As he seems to use Soul Magic, it is not hard that the Moon associates with the Soul... as we also see from the Moonlight Butterflies.

    Looking at the Moonlight, for some reason I feel sort of envious... and I wonder what Seath aims for in the large scale. Interesting how Twinkling titanite seems to show itself well within the Crystal Caves a lot, and are known to be of special magic content (although unknown)... being a white colour, similar to souls. Looking at the Bloodstains, which say when you go near it "Recover Lost Power", and the fact that the Soul seems to associate with Magic in many ways (and Humanity is a soul of sorts, just different in terms of what it accomplishes and aims for).

    It is still very unclear in terms of information, and is not clear what it aims for to the exact. However it seems to be a better version of Sorceries in general. Interestingly enough, the Butterflies use a blue sorcery to attack, which is the blast attack it uses when switches from one side of the bridge to another. As Moss can be traded with Twinkling titanite to snuggly, and the Butterfly rests at the Moss to regenerate and rest, the Butterfly seems to take power from Twinkling titanite. No sign of actual crystal form or magic is used by such butterflies, and even the 'puffer spear' attack it uses to send many needles of green is not crystallized... just very sharp. I find it interesting that, as Clams in the Crystal Cave and Ash Lake drop both Twinkling and Curse Pearls, it seems to associate well connection between Sorceries and Curses in a sense... I need to look more into it for the aspects related to Moonlight, but I am getting a better grasp to it.

    Green is an uncommon colour in Lordran. odd to be chosen for the Butterflies and Moonlight Magic in general. Seeing how it is uncommon in power and supposed to be held to only a few, and the power of them is strong in many aspects, it seems to associate with the power of sunlight. As Moonlight is the supposed opposite to Sunlight (or just two things that have relationship of similar quality, yet found at two different ends of the globe... you get the idea).

    Once Moonlight Magic has finished in terms of research, which is getting closer to be, I think I'll continue on with the rest of the creatures of the Self, and then look at the creatures of Chaos. I've been dodging those, as they give little to no information in many cases. Seemingly having the least amount of information than any other thing in Lordran. Hm...
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    Re: Moonlight Magic

    Post by skarekrow13 on Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:48 pm

    Happy to help. Nice connections. Haven't thought much about any of this before


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    Re: Moonlight Magic

    Post by User on Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:20 pm

    I feel like Moonlight is nit getting much attention in my part, so I looked deeper into it. Still not finished with it, but it is fruitful for what it is.

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