Needs patroling enemy...

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    Seignar
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    Needs patroling enemy...

    Post by Seignar on Sat May 04, 2013 5:09 pm

    Read if only you like words:
    Imagine this:

    You walk down a narrow tunnel until you see an opening and a fork in the road, along with a gaping hole ahead of you. You can go either left or right, both lead down, but if you look down at the hole, you'll see a nightmare incarnate.

    Its spiked tail thrashes wildly as it walks, making all sneak attacks impossible. Its long claws will shred through all defenses, only greatshields being able to withstand its wrath. The smoke emitting from its mouth an indicator of ferocious flames in wait, ready to incinerate the tunnels. How can you best it?

    You need to move on, you take the tunnel to the left and go for 5 minutes walking, fighting and just trying to figure out where to move, then...it happens:

    The ground shakes, you are losing your footing and you hear the snarl of a vicious beast. You continue onward and suddenly, from an opening to the left just a few meters ahead...it appears. Its eyes look to the right, then ahead...until it looks left and sees you. Now that the beast is close, you can make out that its body is made of scales, your weapon is useless!

    RUN!

    You sprint the other way and try to recall your previous path, but it appears that this maze is endless and you're lose before you know it! You can hear it chasing you and there is nothing you could do as you're met with a deadend. Alas, poor adventurer this is your end...

    But, wait. Of course! Chameleon and turn into a stone! The beast approaches you, but fails to detect you. It waits around a couple moments, sniffing the air, until it finally turns around and leaves. The path is only one-way, whatever will you do, but follow it. You eventually walk slowly until you catch up to it, you realize it is checking the corners like before, and in seizing its movements, the tail rests gently on the ground.

    You know what you must do.
    With one great slice of your greatsword, you slice its tail off. The best roars in pain, taking in what just happened. In a split second, you grab the tail and obtain a weapon, then you run past it and flee, yet again!

    This time, you come upon a bridge and as you look down you'll notice you're a couple of meters higher then when you first came in (how in the?, bah nevermind!). The beast follows you, it seems to have become faster now and it is gaining. The bridge is unstable, you can't escape it. Is all hope lost?

    No, you use Fall Control and cut the bridge, sending both of you plummeting to the ground, but you land on a ledge just a bit below you, saving you the pain, while the beast plummets down. You've been separated and you both stare down at each other for a split second before a ferocious ranged battle occurs! Spitting flames at you, and you shooting arrows, the beast is clearly winnign, only dazed by the shots. At this point, you cannot win, its HP bar is still roughly at 80% and its hide is too thick.

    You notice another tunnelway alongside the narrow ledge. You make your way across, shooting arrows at it to daze it so you can get across safely. You made it. You can hear the snarl of the monster as it moves, attempting to find a way to you...

    This time, you survived. Take precaution never to face it again.


    Unfortunately, you suck at that, fall through a hole and land right in front of it. It eats you, complains about your horrible taste and you die. The End.
    Moral of the Story: We need patrolling super-enemies, maybe bosses to give meaning to Hidden Body, Hush, Fall Control, Chameleon, Aural Decoy (Although already overpowered) and...of course, Tranquil Walk of Peace.

    Just imagine a patrolling boss that can't be beaten in narrow areas, so you need to reach a wide area to fight it (The boss stage), but you can meet it along the level attacking you in narrow areas, but you can play some antics on it to beat it!

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    SadPanda
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    Re: Needs patroling enemy...

    Post by SadPanda on Sat May 04, 2013 5:21 pm

    Seignar wrote:
    Read if only you like words:
    Imagine this:

    You walk down a narrow tunnel until you see an opening and a fork in the road, along with a gaping hole ahead of you. You can go either left or right, both lead down, but if you look down at the hole, you'll see a nightmare incarnate.

    Its spiked tail thrashes wildly as it walks, making all sneak attacks impossible. Its long claws will shred through all defenses, only greatshields being able to withstand its wrath. The smoke emitting from its mouth an indicator of ferocious flames in wait, ready to incinerate the tunnels. How can you best it?

    You need to move on, you take the tunnel to the left and go for 5 minutes walking, fighting and just trying to figure out where to move, then...it happens:

    The ground shakes, you are losing your footing and you hear the snarl of a vicious beast. You continue onward and suddenly, from an opening to the left just a few meters ahead...it appears. Its eyes look to the right, then ahead...until it looks left and sees you. Now that the beast is close, you can make out that its body is made of scales, your weapon is useless!

    RUN!

    You sprint the other way and try to recall your previous path, but it appears that this maze is endless and you're lose before you know it! You can hear it chasing you and there is nothing you could do as you're met with a deadend. Alas, poor adventurer this is your end...

    But, wait. Of course! Chameleon and turn into a stone! The beast approaches you, but fails to detect you. It waits around a couple moments, sniffing the air, until it finally turns around and leaves. The path is only one-way, whatever will you do, but follow it. You eventually walk slowly until you catch up to it, you realize it is checking the corners like before, and in seizing its movements, the tail rests gently on the ground.

    You know what you must do.
    With one great slice of your greatsword, you slice its tail off. The best roars in pain, taking in what just happened. In a split second, you grab the tail and obtain a weapon, then you run past it and flee, yet again!

    This time, you come upon a bridge and as you look down you'll notice you're a couple of meters higher then when you first came in (how in the?, bah nevermind!). The beast follows you, it seems to have become faster now and it is gaining. The bridge is unstable, you can't escape it. Is all hope lost?

    No, you use Fall Control and cut the bridge, sending both of you plummeting to the ground, but you land on a ledge just a bit below you, saving you the pain, while the beast plummets down. You've been separated and you both stare down at each other for a split second before a ferocious ranged battle occurs! Spitting flames at you, and you shooting arrows, the beast is clearly winnign, only dazed by the shots. At this point, you cannot win, its HP bar is still roughly at 80% and its hide is too thick.

    You notice another tunnelway alongside the narrow ledge. You make your way across, shooting arrows at it to daze it so you can get across safely. You made it. You can hear the snarl of the monster as it moves, attempting to find a way to you...

    This time, you survived. Take precaution never to face it again.


    Unfortunately, you suck at that, fall through a hole and land right in front of it. It eats you, complains about your horrible taste and you die. The End.
    Moral of the Story: We need patrolling super-enemies, maybe bosses to give meaning to Hidden Body, Hush, Fall Control, Chameleon, Aural Decoy (Although already overpowered) and...of course, Tranquil Walk of Peace.

    Just imagine a patrolling boss that can't be beaten in narrow areas, so you need to reach a wide area to fight it (The boss stage), but you can meet it along the level attacking you in narrow areas, but you can play some antics on it to beat it!
    I really hope that from focuses on stuff like this for their "mid level twist on boss fights".
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    Re: Needs patroling enemy...

    Post by DemonOfFate on Sat May 04, 2013 5:27 pm

    Problem with this idea, it would make your guy have to know magic. I mean i love the concept, but there should be a way for every play style to survive. I hate magic and miracles, so there would have to be a way to avoid it without the need for magic. Love the concept though.


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    Re: Needs patroling enemy...

    Post by Seignar on Sat May 04, 2013 5:31 pm

    I was just using magic to use things we are familiar with. The player could have used Alluring skull to distract the beast in the bridge, then safely cut the rope. There could be other items like Flashbombs, that he could have used to blind the beast while he was stuck at the dead end, to safely run past (safely, being relative).

    If we were to take another setting: The beast is in a dark cavern and you're using a torch. You can turn off the torch so it doesn't see you, but you can't see it either. You then have to walk as the both of you are stuck with only your sight to fight.

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    Re: Needs patroling enemy...

    Post by RANT on Sat May 04, 2013 5:54 pm

    sounds good to me, what I really want is powerful enemies like the two clerics in the tomb and not just weak hollow mobs, I want alive mobs that are hard to kill and those two clerics are the perfect example of that.


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    Re: Needs patroling enemy...

    Post by Aevun on Sat May 04, 2013 6:35 pm

    I only read the moral of the story, and I absolutely agree. More dynamic/organic/seamless level design would be most welcomed.


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    Re: Needs patroling enemy...

    Post by Seignar on Sat May 04, 2013 7:32 pm

    Personally, the way I would like to see each level divided is like this:

    There is 1 level, take for example a Castle. This castle is huge and is divided into 3 stages. Within each stage exist 1 boss as you make your way to the top, but the True Boss of the stage can be found in all 3 stages wandering.

    Meaning, that while you fight your way through stage 1 and stage 2, you could still end up fighting the stage 3 boss (fighting really meaning "running from"). However, how can you balance level design when a player could end up fighting something that should not be fought? This is the tricky scenario, considering you must provide the player with various pathways to accommodate fleeing scenarios. Most levels are linear, so you wouldn't expect many escape routes.

    Take for example the level I was envisioning in the spoiler, it is a maze filled with dead ends and winding paths meant to assist the True Boss by entrapping the player, but one must also realize how it affects the overall level design because, as I mentioned, the level is filled with dead ends that will annoy players.

    Ultimately, for the vision I have, it is pretty difficult to make a boss that could be met early on because you would have to design the level around the boss's movements or have to design the boss around the level.

    For example, to design a wandering boss around Sen's Fortress, it would need to be able to fly so it can take multiple routes. It would need to be able to walk around walkways and it should be proficient in head-on fights. You would either need to design a boss like that, or you would need to design the entire level around it and its movements.

    If I had to renvision Sen's Fortress to fit the Iron Golem, it would be pretty hard. I would have to give the golem something to walk on, I would have to manipulate the traps so it doesn't get caught on them naturally. I would have to remove most fall deaths to evade cheap kills. Either that or I make certain areas of Sen's Fortress open air and make Golem simply shoots its air wave from a distance.

    That ultimately leads to complications when trying to keep the design top quality. I wonder how they plan to work with this.

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    Re: Needs patroling enemy...

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Sat May 04, 2013 7:55 pm

    I think we all can do better with the better elements of stealth and distraction in the game. It would provide a more realistic aspect and give us more options instead of killing all the enemies that are aggressive.


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    Re: Needs patroling enemy...

    Post by Sargerus on Sat May 04, 2013 9:37 pm

    I would love if FROM implement the scraped DkS concept that Black Knights would wander around the world in a random pattern.
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    Re: Needs patroling enemy...

    Post by MistahrFox on Sun May 05, 2013 3:02 pm

    Patrolling Bosses are a great idea, but we also have to think about normal enemies. I mean every enemy just stands around waiting for the player to aggro them, they should be made look more alive. Even hollow soldiers and warriors, as weak as they are, should be wandering around until they find something to atack.

    Now returning to the boss idea, there are a few examples in DkS that would be easy to do, like Artorias, since he went batshit insane due to the Abyss its easy to imagine him going around the garden and atacking you if spotted, maybe even other enemies. Or the Moonlight Butterfly shooting magic arrows at you in it's area.


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