Murakumo dex+faith

hey guys

my build is:

28str
40dex
50faith

should i go for a Murakumo +15 or a Occult Murakumo +5?
what will bring me greater damage?

ps: i am using the dmb, too

Woah, you're asking which will deal more damage? +15 even without the DMB will do more

and without the occult?

...+15

+15 w/ DMB or SLB would be the superior choice for your build.

Occult Muro has 650 base damage at those stats, a +15 will have 552, but with, (assuming you have Darkmoon Talisman), DMB, it's boosted up to 1026 and with SLB is boosted up to 958. An Occult switch when you run out of buffs is your best choice.

+15 is better in every way dude. Don't worry. Occult is split damage therefore it in fact is less damage than the +15 although the AR is higher.

Dibsville wrote:Occult Muro has 650 base damage at those stats, a +15 will have 552, but with, (assuming you have Darkmoon Talisman), DMB, it's boosted up to 1026 and with SLB is boosted up to 958. An Occult switch when you run out of buffs is your best choice.

how do you calculate that? i just find think like scaling A or E. and i dont have an idea what to do with that

PallaZ wrote:

Dibsville wrote:Occult Muro has 650 base damage at those stats, a +15 will have 552, but with, (assuming you have Darkmoon Talisman), DMB, it's boosted up to 1026 and with SLB is boosted up to 958. An Occult switch when you run out of buffs is your best choice.

how do you calculate that? i just find think like scaling A or E. and i dont have an idea what to do with that

http://mmdks.com/1eh7 Hover over the miracles to see the added damage, you can switch Muro from normal to Occult at your discretion.

Don't be fooled by the fact that it will look like Occult will do better damage, because the damage is split between physical and magical. Due to the way defense is calculated, one hit with 500 AR will do a lot more damage than two hits with 300 AR, because the higher AR gets, the less your opponent's armor acts on it.

@ Pallaz: Don't worry, it took me awhile to figure out how this stuff works.

I'll simplify it:

Occult +5 has the highest attack rating. Unfortunatly, the attack is split between physical and magic. This causes it to do less damage because it has to go against 2 defenses. It also can't be buffed.

Normal +5 has a lower attack rating. However, it has only physical damage. This causes it to do more damage because it has to go against only one defense. The damage can be increased even further by applying a weapon buff like Darkmoon Blade or Sunlight Blade. This is because the weapon won't lose physical attack power and will gain a significant amount of elemental damage. The combined attack rating will be much higher then the Occult +5.

The buffs add a little over 400 attack rating. That is about as powerful as a weapon.

Basicly, a normal +15 is the way to go for your character. Add a weapon buff for even greater damage.

Also, don't take dibsville's advice. An Occult +5 will do less damage then an unbuffed Normal +15.

Another vote for +15. With proper stats, a +15 weapon will almost always outdamage any other upgrade paths (not including crystal). And, they can be buffed as well.

If you want it plain and simple, with those stats, get a +15. If you want, you can farm the Giant Skeletons for a second Mura, then upgrade it to Occult. Use Occult ONLY on normal enemies, a +15 should be buffed and used on bosses/invaders. Let's put that in an example; Oolacile Township. You can use the Occult verion on all the normal enemies. Once you reach Marvelous Chester, buff your +15 and kill him with that. Return to Occult. Once you have reached Chained Prisoner, buff, kill, and go back to Occult. Keep running through. Once you reach Manus, buff, once the buff has run out, switch back to Occult. And in any of those times should you get invaded, you buff. Occult should only be used on the grunts, not bigger enemies that actually have a chance to kill you, unless you have no buffs.

Dibsville wrote:If you want it plain and simple, with those stats, get a +15. If you want, you can farm the Giant Skeletons for a second Mura, then upgrade it to Occult. Use Occult ONLY on normal enemies, a +15 should be buffed and used on bosses/invaders. Let's put that in an example; Oolacile Township. You can use the Occult verion on all the normal enemies. Once you reach Marvelous Chester, buff your +15 and kill him with that. Return to Occult. Once you have reached Chained Prisoner, buff, kill, and go back to Occult. Keep running through. Once you reach Manus, buff, once the buff has run out, switch back to Occult. And in any of those times should you get invaded, you buff. Occult should only be used on the grunts, not bigger enemies that actually have a chance to kill you, unless you have no buffs.

If you want it simply, you are making his build less efficient with his advice. Normal would be better than occult unless he had about 20 dexterity and 50 fth and even then with a buff the 20 dex murakumo would be better.

TehInfamousAmos wrote:

Dibsville wrote:If you want it plain and simple, with those stats, get a +15. If you want, you can farm the Giant Skeletons for a second Mura, then upgrade it to Occult. Use Occult ONLY on normal enemies, a +15 should be buffed and used on bosses/invaders. Let's put that in an example; Oolacile Township. You can use the Occult verion on all the normal enemies. Once you reach Marvelous Chester, buff your +15 and kill him with that. Return to Occult. Once you have reached Chained Prisoner, buff, kill, and go back to Occult. Keep running through. Once you reach Manus, buff, once the buff has run out, switch back to Occult. And in any of those times should you get invaded, you buff. Occult should only be used on the grunts, not bigger enemies that actually have a chance to kill you, unless you have no buffs.

If you want it simply, you are making his build less efficient with his advice. Normal would be better than occult unless he had about 20 dexterity and 50 fth and even then with a buff the 20 dex murakumo would be better.

I was saying that normal was better, I even said on my first comment how a buffed Mura has 1k damage as compared to the 650 from Occult...

Dibsville wrote:

TehInfamousAmos wrote:

Dibsville wrote:If you want it plain and simple, with those stats, get a +15. If you want, you can farm the Giant Skeletons for a second Mura, then upgrade it to Occult. Use Occult ONLY on normal enemies, a +15 should be buffed and used on bosses/invaders. Let's put that in an example; Oolacile Township. You can use the Occult verion on all the normal enemies. Once you reach Marvelous Chester, buff your +15 and kill him with that. Return to Occult. Once you have reached Chained Prisoner, buff, kill, and go back to Occult. Keep running through. Once you reach Manus, buff, once the buff has run out, switch back to Occult. And in any of those times should you get invaded, you buff. Occult should only be used on the grunts, not bigger enemies that actually have a chance to kill you, unless you have no buffs.

If you want it simply, you are making his build less efficient with his advice. Normal would be better than occult unless he had about 20 dexterity and 50 fth and even then with a buff the 20 dex murakumo would be better.

I was saying that normal was better, I even said on my first comment how a buffed Mura has 1k damage as compared to the 650 from Occult...

^ The problem is an unbuffed normal +15 will do more damage then an occult +5. If he follows your advice then he'll be handicaping himself.

WandererReece wrote:

Dibsville wrote:

TehInfamousAmos wrote:

Dibsville wrote:If you want it plain and simple, with those stats, get a +15. If you want, you can farm the Giant Skeletons for a second Mura, then upgrade it to Occult. Use Occult ONLY on normal enemies, a +15 should be buffed and used on bosses/invaders. Let's put that in an example; Oolacile Township. You can use the Occult verion on all the normal enemies. Once you reach Marvelous Chester, buff your +15 and kill him with that. Return to Occult. Once you have reached Chained Prisoner, buff, kill, and go back to Occult. Keep running through. Once you reach Manus, buff, once the buff has run out, switch back to Occult. And in any of those times should you get invaded, you buff. Occult should only be used on the grunts, not bigger enemies that actually have a chance to kill you, unless you have no buffs.

If you want it simply, you are making his build less efficient with his advice. Normal would be better than occult unless he had about 20 dexterity and 50 fth and even then with a buff the 20 dex murakumo would be better.

I was saying that normal was better, I even said on my first comment how a buffed Mura has 1k damage as compared to the 650 from Occult...

^ The problem is an unbuffed normal +15 will do more damage then an occult +5. If he follows your advice then he'll be handicaping himself.

Look again, my friend! I told him to get +15, and get Occult afterwards IF HE WANTS TO. You can most likely agree with me when I say that, against something that does not require a buff, an elemental is your best friend. Occult ALSO scales with FTH, so whether or not he can do more damage with +15, the Occult version has a wider variety as it can hit things that are strong against Physical AND strong against Magic.

^ Look again my friend. An unbuffed normal +15 will do more damage then an occult +5.

Also, why would he use an Occult weapon, a weapon that has magic damage, against something that's strong against magic? That's an obvious handicap troll.

WandererReece wrote:^ Look again my friend. An unbuffed normal +15 will do more damage then an occult +5.

Also, why would he use an Occult weapon, a weapon that has magic damage, against something that's strong against magic? That's an obvious handicap troll.

The Physical damage, not the magic damage, is good against something strong to magic, and vice versa. You win this round, because, after thinking about it, I simply looked at one of the weapons one of my SL 120s actually use, a BSS. I remembered that at 40 DEX, BSS +15 does 381 base damage and purely physical, whereas a Lightning BSS +5 does 400 base damage, with only 200 pure physical. My bad.

wow..thx for your fast and intense help! i will go for the 15+. although if i have to sacrifice an titanite slab.

another question:
with 34 end: what would be a good pvp equip? RoFP of course. i'd like to go for the fast roll, but if there is no good build with this, i take the med roll, too.

any suggestions?

use DWGR - your build doesn't have much health so sacrifice poise for mobility. Pick whatever looks cool and is light in your opinion.

that's a justified thought. indeed i only have 30 vit + RoFP.
should i still try to reach a little poise? if yes which value?