Murakumo dex+faith

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    PallaZ
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    Murakumo dex+faith

    Post by PallaZ on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:52 am

    hey guys

    my build is:

    28str
    40dex
    50faith

    should i go for a Murakumo +15 or a Occult Murakumo +5?
    what will bring me greater damage?

    ps: i am using the dmb, too
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    Re: Murakumo dex+faith

    Post by TehInfamousAmos on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:54 am

    Woah, you're asking which will deal more damage? +15 even without the DMB will do more silly


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    Re: Murakumo dex+faith

    Post by PallaZ on Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:01 pm

    and without the occult?
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    Re: Murakumo dex+faith

    Post by Rynn on Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:07 pm

    ...+15
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    Re: Murakumo dex+faith

    Post by WandererReece on Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:45 pm

    +15 w/ DMB or SLB would be the superior choice for your build.


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    Re: Murakumo dex+faith

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:56 pm

    Occult Muro has 650 base damage at those stats, a +15 will have 552, but with, (assuming you have Darkmoon Talisman), DMB, it's boosted up to 1026 and with SLB is boosted up to 958. An Occult switch when you run out of buffs is your best choice.


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    Re: Murakumo dex+faith

    Post by TehInfamousAmos on Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:59 pm

    +15 is better in every way dude. Don't worry. Occult is split damage therefore it in fact is less damage than the +15 although the AR is higher.


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    Re: Murakumo dex+faith

    Post by PallaZ on Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:32 pm

    Dibsville wrote:Occult Muro has 650 base damage at those stats, a +15 will have 552, but with, (assuming you have Darkmoon Talisman), DMB, it's boosted up to 1026 and with SLB is boosted up to 958. An Occult switch when you run out of buffs is your best choice.

    how do you calculate that? i just find think like scaling A or E. and i dont have an idea what to do with that
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    Re: Murakumo dex+faith

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:40 pm

    PallaZ wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:Occult Muro has 650 base damage at those stats, a +15 will have 552, but with, (assuming you have Darkmoon Talisman), DMB, it's boosted up to 1026 and with SLB is boosted up to 958. An Occult switch when you run out of buffs is your best choice.

    how do you calculate that? i just find think like scaling A or E. and i dont have an idea what to do with that
    http://mmdks.com/1eh7 Hover over the miracles to see the added damage, you can switch Muro from normal to Occult at your discretion.


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    Re: Murakumo dex+faith

    Post by Ghadis_God on Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:46 pm

    Don't be fooled by the fact that it will look like Occult will do better damage, because the damage is split between physical and magical. Due to the way defense is calculated, one hit with 500 AR will do a lot more damage than two hits with 300 AR, because the higher AR gets, the less your opponent's armor acts on it.


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    Re: Murakumo dex+faith

    Post by WandererReece on Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:49 pm

    @ Pallaz: Don't worry, it took me awhile to figure out how this stuff works.

    I'll simplify it:

    Occult +5 has the highest attack rating. Unfortunatly, the attack is split between physical and magic. This causes it to do less damage because it has to go against 2 defenses. It also can't be buffed.

    Normal +5 has a lower attack rating. However, it has only physical damage. This causes it to do more damage because it has to go against only one defense. The damage can be increased even further by applying a weapon buff like Darkmoon Blade or Sunlight Blade. This is because the weapon won't lose physical attack power and will gain a significant amount of elemental damage. The combined attack rating will be much higher then the Occult +5.

    The buffs add a little over 400 attack rating. That is about as powerful as a weapon.

    Basicly, a normal +15 is the way to go for your character. Add a weapon buff for even greater damage. twisted

    Also, don't take dibsville's advice. An Occult +5 will do less damage then an unbuffed Normal +15.


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    Re: Murakumo dex+faith

    Post by reim0027 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:43 pm

    Another vote for +15. With proper stats, a +15 weapon will almost always outdamage any other upgrade paths (not including crystal). And, they can be buffed as well.


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    Re: Murakumo dex+faith

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:48 pm

    If you want it plain and simple, with those stats, get a +15. If you want, you can farm the Giant Skeletons for a second Mura, then upgrade it to Occult. Use Occult ONLY on normal enemies, a +15 should be buffed and used on bosses/invaders. Let's put that in an example; Oolacile Township. You can use the Occult verion on all the normal enemies. Once you reach Marvelous Chester, buff your +15 and kill him with that. Return to Occult. Once you have reached Chained Prisoner, buff, kill, and go back to Occult. Keep running through. Once you reach Manus, buff, once the buff has run out, switch back to Occult. And in any of those times should you get invaded, you buff. Occult should only be used on the grunts, not bigger enemies that actually have a chance to kill you, unless you have no buffs.


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    Re: Murakumo dex+faith

    Post by TehInfamousAmos on Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:55 pm

    Dibsville wrote:If you want it plain and simple, with those stats, get a +15. If you want, you can farm the Giant Skeletons for a second Mura, then upgrade it to Occult. Use Occult ONLY on normal enemies, a +15 should be buffed and used on bosses/invaders. Let's put that in an example; Oolacile Township. You can use the Occult verion on all the normal enemies. Once you reach Marvelous Chester, buff your +15 and kill him with that. Return to Occult. Once you have reached Chained Prisoner, buff, kill, and go back to Occult. Keep running through. Once you reach Manus, buff, once the buff has run out, switch back to Occult. And in any of those times should you get invaded, you buff. Occult should only be used on the grunts, not bigger enemies that actually have a chance to kill you, unless you have no buffs.

    If you want it simply, you are making his build less efficient with his advice. Normal would be better than occult unless he had about 20 dexterity and 50 fth and even then with a buff the 20 dex murakumo would be better.


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    Re: Murakumo dex+faith

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:32 pm

    TehInfamousAmos wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:If you want it plain and simple, with those stats, get a +15. If you want, you can farm the Giant Skeletons for a second Mura, then upgrade it to Occult. Use Occult ONLY on normal enemies, a +15 should be buffed and used on bosses/invaders. Let's put that in an example; Oolacile Township. You can use the Occult verion on all the normal enemies. Once you reach Marvelous Chester, buff your +15 and kill him with that. Return to Occult. Once you have reached Chained Prisoner, buff, kill, and go back to Occult. Keep running through. Once you reach Manus, buff, once the buff has run out, switch back to Occult. And in any of those times should you get invaded, you buff. Occult should only be used on the grunts, not bigger enemies that actually have a chance to kill you, unless you have no buffs.

    If you want it simply, you are making his build less efficient with his advice. Normal would be better than occult unless he had about 20 dexterity and 50 fth and even then with a buff the 20 dex murakumo would be better.
    I was saying that normal was better, I even said on my first comment how a buffed Mura has 1k damage as compared to the 650 from Occult...


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    Re: Murakumo dex+faith

    Post by WandererReece on Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:50 pm

    Dibsville wrote:
    TehInfamousAmos wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:If you want it plain and simple, with those stats, get a +15. If you want, you can farm the Giant Skeletons for a second Mura, then upgrade it to Occult. Use Occult ONLY on normal enemies, a +15 should be buffed and used on bosses/invaders. Let's put that in an example; Oolacile Township. You can use the Occult verion on all the normal enemies. Once you reach Marvelous Chester, buff your +15 and kill him with that. Return to Occult. Once you have reached Chained Prisoner, buff, kill, and go back to Occult. Keep running through. Once you reach Manus, buff, once the buff has run out, switch back to Occult. And in any of those times should you get invaded, you buff. Occult should only be used on the grunts, not bigger enemies that actually have a chance to kill you, unless you have no buffs.

    If you want it simply, you are making his build less efficient with his advice. Normal would be better than occult unless he had about 20 dexterity and 50 fth and even then with a buff the 20 dex murakumo would be better.
    I was saying that normal was better, I even said on my first comment how a buffed Mura has 1k damage as compared to the 650 from Occult...

    ^ The problem is an unbuffed normal +15 will do more damage then an occult +5. If he follows your advice then he'll be handicaping himself.


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    Re: Murakumo dex+faith

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:55 pm

    WandererReece wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:
    TehInfamousAmos wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:If you want it plain and simple, with those stats, get a +15. If you want, you can farm the Giant Skeletons for a second Mura, then upgrade it to Occult. Use Occult ONLY on normal enemies, a +15 should be buffed and used on bosses/invaders. Let's put that in an example; Oolacile Township. You can use the Occult verion on all the normal enemies. Once you reach Marvelous Chester, buff your +15 and kill him with that. Return to Occult. Once you have reached Chained Prisoner, buff, kill, and go back to Occult. Keep running through. Once you reach Manus, buff, once the buff has run out, switch back to Occult. And in any of those times should you get invaded, you buff. Occult should only be used on the grunts, not bigger enemies that actually have a chance to kill you, unless you have no buffs.

    If you want it simply, you are making his build less efficient with his advice. Normal would be better than occult unless he had about 20 dexterity and 50 fth and even then with a buff the 20 dex murakumo would be better.
    I was saying that normal was better, I even said on my first comment how a buffed Mura has 1k damage as compared to the 650 from Occult...

    ^ The problem is an unbuffed normal +15 will do more damage then an occult +5. If he follows your advice then he'll be handicaping himself.
    Look again, my friend! I told him to get +15, and get Occult afterwards IF HE WANTS TO. You can most likely agree with me when I say that, against something that does not require a buff, an elemental is your best friend. Occult ALSO scales with FTH, so whether or not he can do more damage with +15, the Occult version has a wider variety as it can hit things that are strong against Physical AND strong against Magic.


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    Re: Murakumo dex+faith

    Post by WandererReece on Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:02 pm

    ^ Look again my friend. An unbuffed normal +15 will do more damage then an occult +5.

    Also, why would he use an Occult weapon, a weapon that has magic damage, against something that's strong against magic? That's an obvious handicap troll.


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    Re: Murakumo dex+faith

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:07 pm

    WandererReece wrote:^ Look again my friend. An unbuffed normal +15 will do more damage then an occult +5.

    Also, why would he use an Occult weapon, a weapon that has magic damage, against something that's strong against magic? That's an obvious handicap troll.
    The Physical damage, not the magic damage, is good against something strong to magic, and vice versa. You win this round, because, after thinking about it, I simply looked at one of the weapons one of my SL 120s actually use, a BSS. I remembered that at 40 DEX, BSS +15 does 381 base damage and purely physical, whereas a Lightning BSS +5 does 400 base damage, with only 200 pure physical. My bad.


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    Re: Murakumo dex+faith

    Post by PallaZ on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:05 pm

    wow..thx for your fast and intense help! i will go for the 15+. although if i have to sacrifice an titanite slab.

    another question:
    with 34 end: what would be a good pvp equip? RoFP of course. i'd like to go for the fast roll, but if there is no good build with this, i take the med roll, too.

    any suggestions? happy
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    Re: Murakumo dex+faith

    Post by TehInfamousAmos on Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:44 am

    use DWGR - your build doesn't have much health so sacrifice poise for mobility. Pick whatever looks cool and is light in your opinion.


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    Re: Murakumo dex+faith

    Post by PallaZ on Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:15 am

    that's a justified thought. indeed i only have 30 vit + RoFP.
    should i still try to reach a little poise? if yes which value?

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