Need a tip

    Share
    avatar
    Sentiel
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3181
    Reputation : 231
    Join date : 2012-11-26
    Age : 30
    Location : Mushroom Kingdom

    Need a tip

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:58 am

    For the past few days there seems to be a outbreak of MLGS users.
    They always repeat one tactic and I honestly have no idea how to fight it.

    It's always one of the following:

    1. Run at me, do a running 2H R1 Dead Angle and then 2H R1.

    2. Run at me, do a running 2H R1 Dead Angle and then backstab.

    This seems stupid, but since they're next to me, I can't really roll BS them, block them and I can't tank the hit, even with 53 Poise.
    I've tried to unlock, turn to them and block, or parry, but I still get damage + stagger anyway.

    The second R1 ALWAYS misses me by a lot, because I've already rolled/flipped away, but I still get damaged and staggered after I end my roll. I've tried rolling in any direction and it has the same result.

    About the bs version...no idea how to prevent getting bsed after getting staggered.

    Any help and counter will be much appreciated. Bow

    PS: How much Poise do I need to tank GS running 2H R1?
    53 isn't enough.

    avatar
    The Letter X
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2613
    Reputation : 122
    Join date : 2012-09-15
    Location : Southern US

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by The Letter X on Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:08 am

    I thought 53 was enough to tank it. Do you think it was possible they were getting counter damage at the time?

    A tactic that works for me is using a weapon that has a fairly long attack animation, but your rapier R2 will do for this. The long animation is for attacking as if you were going to trade hits with them, toggling, then parrying. The toggle queues up during your attack animation and acts as a toggle escape of sorts.

    I haven't used that in a while, and it might take a while to learn the timing, but it worked wonders for me when I used weapons that couldn't outrange greatswords.

    A simple tactic would be keeping your distance then running in for a backstab after they whiff.


    _________________
    avatar
    Sentiel
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3181
    Reputation : 231
    Join date : 2012-11-26
    Age : 30
    Location : Mushroom Kingdom

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:20 am

    The Letter X wrote:I thought 53 was enough to tank it. Do you think it was possible they were getting counter damage at the time?
    I think I can't tank it because it's a Dead Angle. All 2H R1s of GS shouldn't break 53 Poise in one hit, right?

    The Letter X wrote:A tactic that works for me is using a weapon that has a fairly long attack animation, but your rapier R2 will do for this. The long animation is for attacking as if you were going to trade hits with them, toggling, then parrying. The toggle queues up during your attack animation and acts as a toggle escape of sorts.
    I've tried this. Got it suggested by a friend. It's a really good advice and I use baiting to parry a lot, but I can't parry this, because it's not on my front, but on my side and even if I unlock and turn to face the attack, I don't even get partial, it just ignores me.
    I have no idea what I'm doing wrong here.

    The Letter X wrote:A simple tactic would be keeping your distance then running in for a backstab after they whiff.
    They almost never do. If they see me keeping distance, they simply roll away and try again. And even if it seems like a whiff, it still hits me most of the time. In worst case scenario, they add DB spam to all of this.

    I've never encountered this problem and never had an issues like this with any GS before.

    avatar
    The Letter X
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2613
    Reputation : 122
    Join date : 2012-09-15
    Location : Southern US

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by The Letter X on Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:31 am

    Well then I'll suggest something to you that I'd actually do. (Not that I wasn't trying to give you viable advice before, I just try for simpler answers first.

    Roll through it. It is incredibly easy for me to stay in someone's face when they're using a weapon like a GS by rolling through every single one of their attacks. Just use the I-frames to your advantage and as you see fit to roll-BS, roll then parry, or roll R1 then roll away. If they roll away just after, just follow them. Give them no quarter and allow no spacing for them to even attempt a backstep.

    Yes, 53 poise is enough to tank it. What may be happening is the attack is counted as hitting your back ssince it's dead angling, possibly giving something similar to counter damage with higher poise damage.

    How much poise are these guys normally running with?


    _________________
    avatar
    roanispe
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 286
    Reputation : 82
    Join date : 2012-03-06
    Location : Gensōkyō

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by roanispe on Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:34 am

    Greatsword two-handed running attack does 55 poise damage, and you need 56 to tank it. If you are staggered, and they are behind you, you can't avoid the backstab. You need to toggle out of the first hit, or not let them get behind you. The worse the lag is with your opponent, the less likely it is to avoid the subsequent backstab if you don't toggle.

    The best counter against running attack spam is to backstab. Roll or running backstab works fine, and, although it might be cancelled by the hit, forces your opponent to adapt or die. Though you "can't" do this in a friendly match, you can take advantage of the mediocre distance covered by the running attack to punish a whiff, and if they try to do a follow up r1, that's a very easily parried attack.


    _________________
    Currently #6 in the SL51-100 Duels with a 75 Streak on Kagami_S00mika.
    If you would like a build, please send me a PM. I'll be glad to try to help make something to your specifications, and walk you through how to use it.
    Ever wonder why Pinwheel stole the power of Nito? How to use a Katana. DmC: Devil May Cry footage
    Chen is best 2hu:






    If my post was helpful, please click the little '+' next to it. My PSNid: roanispe, Kagami_S00mika
    avatar
    The Letter X
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2613
    Reputation : 122
    Join date : 2012-09-15
    Location : Southern US

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by The Letter X on Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:39 am

    roanispe wrote:Greatsword two-handed running attack does 55 poise damage, and you need 56 to tank it.
    fe

    This whole time I did not know that. I always ran with 56 poise when going for the 53 breakpoint in the first place.


    _________________

    BagerX2
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 271
    Reputation : 12
    Join date : 2013-01-15
    Age : 28
    Location : Montgomery TX

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by BagerX2 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:56 am

    Forget runing or two handed attacks, I use it and stagger people verry easy with one handed R1. I dont know what it is about this sword but it is verry effective at poise breaking.


    _________________
    PSN - Bager_FLA
    avatar
    Sentiel
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3181
    Reputation : 231
    Join date : 2012-11-26
    Age : 30
    Location : Mushroom Kingdom

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:02 am

    roanispe wrote:Greatsword two-handed running attack does 55 poise damage, and you need 56 to tank it. If you are staggered, and they are behind you, you can't avoid the backstab. You need to toggle out of the first hit, or not let them get behind you. The worse the lag is with your opponent, the less likely it is to avoid the subsequent backstab if you don't toggle.

    The best counter against running attack spam is to backstab. Roll or running backstab works fine, and, although it might be cancelled by the hit, forces your opponent to adapt or die. Though you "can't" do this in a friendly match, you can take advantage of the mediocre distance covered by the running attack to punish a whiff, and if they try to do a follow up r1, that's a very easily parried attack.
    This is the perfect answer I was looking for.
    Thank you.

    The problem with backstabbing them is that they run at me and end their attack while on my side, quite close to me. Since they're that close I can't roll bs them (I'm not really good at roll bs tbh) and running bs won't work, because I will get staggered from their attack.

    However, if I will have 56 Poise, I can use many of the forementioned methods, or just tank the hit and bs them. If it gets cancelled, they got a wake up Fire Tempest from me. Works like charm. Joy

    Yes I am noob in PvP. :oops:

    Thank you on more time for your help. Proper Bow

    avatar
    Rifter7
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1523
    Reputation : 69
    Join date : 2012-05-05
    Location : Tama

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by Rifter7 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:06 am

    chain armor and hollow soldier leggings.


    _________________
    avatar
    Sentiel
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3181
    Reputation : 231
    Join date : 2012-11-26
    Age : 30
    Location : Mushroom Kingdom

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:14 am

    Rifter7 wrote:chain armor and hollow soldier leggings.
    :Baal01:

    avatar
    Rifter7
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1523
    Reputation : 69
    Join date : 2012-05-05
    Location : Tama

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by Rifter7 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:19 am

    Sentiel wrote:
    Rifter7 wrote:chain armor and hollow soldier leggings.

    it's 56 poise at fast roll with a wolf ring you can swap... or you could get dash r1 to stagger bs'd.
    your choice happy


    trust me i know its ugly, i secretly have swaps for it.


    _________________
    avatar
    roanispe
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 286
    Reputation : 82
    Join date : 2012-03-06
    Location : Gensōkyō

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by roanispe on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:31 am

    The big trick is if you know they are going for a running attack, and they don't go for an unlocked approach, you can run at them, and score a running backstab before they get their attack off. Even if they decide to go a bit early, you don't get staggered from a hit that cancels a backstab. However, they can also stop running, and do a normal unlocked r1 to score a hit and roll away, or counter backstab the attempt. Thus the diversity of the mindgames widens when a Greatsword user faces someone coming at them.

    Similarly, when deciding to roll backstab the attempt, you want to roll towards them the moment they attack, and you want your I-frames to coincide with when you'd get hit. Then you unlock to widen the backstab window, and do a small manoeuvre to position yourself in place to score it. This threat is more difficult for a Greatsword user to respond to, and one trick is similarly to use unlocked r1s to obfuscate their backside. Then the majority of their play will be trying to bait an opportunity land a running r1, while applying pressure with normal attacks. Another way to combat the roll backstab menace is to play to unlocked, and keep close while running to screw up the roll spacing. It leaves you much more vulnerable to a simple running backstab, but those can be consistently cancelled by the r1 attack. It can make for a very effective rushdown on many players, as they wait for their opponent to run out of stamina as they roll away from potential attacks. (I'm not too good at rushdown, personally, but I do love to practice it. It looks very impressive when you do it right.)

    These together represent an aggressive, and defensive approach to the counter just offered. What to do against these starts to depend more on your weapon than anything else, but it's not too often that find people capable of bringing the next level of play. For example, the Halberd does great against the defensive style of Greatsword play, but will have a very difficult play against the rushdown, while a Zweihander does exceptionally well against the rushdown compared to the defensive.

    Basically, I'm trying to say that this won't solve all your problems against a Greatsword user, but it's a start.


    _________________
    Currently #6 in the SL51-100 Duels with a 75 Streak on Kagami_S00mika.
    If you would like a build, please send me a PM. I'll be glad to try to help make something to your specifications, and walk you through how to use it.
    Ever wonder why Pinwheel stole the power of Nito? How to use a Katana. DmC: Devil May Cry footage
    Chen is best 2hu:






    If my post was helpful, please click the little '+' next to it. My PSNid: roanispe, Kagami_S00mika
    avatar
    Sentiel
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3181
    Reputation : 231
    Join date : 2012-11-26
    Age : 30
    Location : Mushroom Kingdom

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:02 am



    It looks like I'll have to take DkS PvP more seriously then I did until now.

    avatar
    The Letter X
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2613
    Reputation : 122
    Join date : 2012-09-15
    Location : Southern US

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by The Letter X on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:09 am

    Sentiel wrote:It looks like I'll have to take DkS PvP more seriously then I did until now.

    Don't do it; it's a trap. A fun trap, but a trap nevertheless.


    _________________
    avatar
    WyrmHero
    Lordvessel
    Lordvessel

    Posts : 8742
    Reputation : 221
    Join date : 2012-02-16
    Age : 30
    Location : The Painted World

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by WyrmHero on Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:08 pm

    The pedo gear isn't worth the poise. Getting 61 poise will get you covered from almost any weapon combo while fast rolling. There are nice looking armor combos at that poise. You should dodge more nevertheless.


    _________________
    PSN: WyrmHero1945

    Dedicated Blade of the Darkmoon.
    Chaos Legion Str weapons covenant
    avatar
    Rifter7
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1523
    Reputation : 69
    Join date : 2012-05-05
    Location : Tama

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by Rifter7 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:30 pm

    61 needs more endurance.

    you can get away with 30ish endurance with chain.
    avatar
    Sentiel
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3181
    Reputation : 231
    Join date : 2012-11-26
    Age : 30
    Location : Mushroom Kingdom

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by Sentiel on Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:24 am

    It's ok, I got either 33, or 40 End and I can manage good enough Poise like that. I'm aiming for 56/58 on thos and it works wonders so far.

    avatar
    Saturday-Saint
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 961
    Reputation : 48
    Join date : 2012-12-09
    Age : 25

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:31 am

    Sentiel wrote:About the bs version...no idea how to prevent getting bsed after getting staggered.

    Attack them.


    _________________
    Joking aside.
    avatar
    Sentiel
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3181
    Reputation : 231
    Join date : 2012-11-26
    Age : 30
    Location : Mushroom Kingdom

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by Sentiel on Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:56 am

    Saturday-Saint wrote:
    Sentiel wrote:About the bs version...no idea how to prevent getting bsed after getting staggered.

    Attack them.
    But I can't move while staggered.

    avatar
    Saturday-Saint
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 961
    Reputation : 48
    Join date : 2012-12-09
    Age : 25

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:01 am

    You also can't get backstabbed while staggered.


    _________________
    Joking aside.
    avatar
    Forum Pirate
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 6625
    Reputation : 232
    Join date : 2012-01-30
    Age : 26
    Location : International waters

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:03 am

    As I understand it, with many stuns (not sure which, if any, are unavoidable) you're not actually stuck in the stun by the time they get to your back. You can pivot and attack to cancel the bs or pivot and risk a parry for the chance to turn the tables. Its not a 100% thing, but its do-able. Thorn armor+rolling towards them could do it too.


    _________________
    Your rules are yours
    My honor is mine.
    Perspective is everything.
    We are Exiles, and our home is Painted with the blood of trespassers.
    avatar
    roanispe
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 286
    Reputation : 82
    Join date : 2012-03-06
    Location : Gensōkyō

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by roanispe on Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:06 am

    Saturday-Saint wrote:Attack them.

    Wow, I can't believe I never thought of trying that. Have you tested this out? I could see this really working for some of the sloppier, or just down right laggy stagger backstabs, though I'm not sure it could work for the cleaner ones. I know for a Greatsword running attack, you'd have to end roughly behind them to go for a stagger BS, and it's like you said somewhere there is a 3 frame added when you pivot the attack before it even starts to hit so might not be a big enough window after the stagger to cancel it.


    _________________
    Currently #6 in the SL51-100 Duels with a 75 Streak on Kagami_S00mika.
    If you would like a build, please send me a PM. I'll be glad to try to help make something to your specifications, and walk you through how to use it.
    Ever wonder why Pinwheel stole the power of Nito? How to use a Katana. DmC: Devil May Cry footage
    Chen is best 2hu:






    If my post was helpful, please click the little '+' next to it. My PSNid: roanispe, Kagami_S00mika
    avatar
    Forum Pirate
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 6625
    Reputation : 232
    Join date : 2012-01-30
    Age : 26
    Location : International waters

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:36 am

    Roan, I'm in love with the girl in that "how to use a katana" gif. You have ruined all other women in the world.

    I have, roan, though only after a kick stun as this is relatively new to me as well, so I can't actually be positive about specific weapons.


    _________________
    Your rules are yours
    My honor is mine.
    Perspective is everything.
    We are Exiles, and our home is Painted with the blood of trespassers.
    avatar
    Sentiel
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3181
    Reputation : 231
    Join date : 2012-11-26
    Age : 30
    Location : Mushroom Kingdom

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by Sentiel on Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:58 am

    I'm currently using a Rapier and I've tried to pivot parry, or just attack them to cancel the bs, but when they stagger me, I can't even turn around in time and I'm already in bs animation. I can't even roll away, to cancel the bs with Thorns armor. I keep mashing the circle button to roll away from them, or to the side, but my character just won't move and gets bs instead.

    Well, I've fixed the problem. I changed my armor, so I have more Poise now. If I see someone running at me with a GS, I just automatically tank it and bs them. It's cheap, but I seriously don't know how to deal with this any other way.

    @Forum
    I was curious what woman were you talking about, so I took a look.
    I know the feel, bro. sad
    Damn you Roan!

    avatar
    roanispe
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 286
    Reputation : 82
    Join date : 2012-03-06
    Location : Gensōkyō

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by roanispe on Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:00 am

    One trick to cancel with the the Thorns set is to roll into them, not away. Rolling away actually makes it less likely you'd get the hit, and cancel.

    Kick into backstab is one of the most dubious forms a stun backstab, and the only way I've managed to replicate it is when I did it from behind the opponent. Basically, it's the counter to the standstill method of escaping a chain backstab.The only times I've been on the receiving end of a front kick into backstab are the those laggy horror shows of a fight where damage shows up seconds later, and they seem to be skating on ice.

    I also know there is Great Hammer 2hr1, or Ultra Greatsword rolling attack stagger into DWGR roll unlocked stagger backstab that would most likely avoid even the attack cancel attempt if it works because of the invulnerability frames. I haven't confirmed doing this for other weapons, and this method does require some good spacing, though it seems to be more forgiving for the Great Hammers.

    The stagger backstabs I see being most effected by this are Wrath of God family effects, Ultra Greatsword r1s, and Claymore dead-angled r2s as the opponent will often walk, or run into position leaving them open for a hit.

    Also, here is the video that the gif was made from. Feel free to investigate deeper if you think you found the love of your life, haha.


    _________________
    Currently #6 in the SL51-100 Duels with a 75 Streak on Kagami_S00mika.
    If you would like a build, please send me a PM. I'll be glad to try to help make something to your specifications, and walk you through how to use it.
    Ever wonder why Pinwheel stole the power of Nito? How to use a Katana. DmC: Devil May Cry footage
    Chen is best 2hu:






    If my post was helpful, please click the little '+' next to it. My PSNid: roanispe, Kagami_S00mika

    Sponsored content

    Re: Need a tip

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:04 pm