Quickest Attack

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    stryks1
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    Quickest Attack

    Post by stryks1 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:18 pm

    I've been doing some slight tests to see which weapon, +15 (of course this doesnt matter) which attacks the quickest. So far dragonslayer 2h RB (light attack) is the quickest to my eye.

    Suggestions? Recommendations? Anyone else have a different weapon?

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    Re: Quickest Attack

    Post by Spurgun on Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:20 pm

    Common sense tells me that daggers should be the fastest.
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    Re: Quickest Attack

    Post by Rifter7 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:21 pm

    stryks1 wrote:+15 (of course this doesnt matter)

    yes it does.


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    Re: Quickest Attack

    Post by stryks1 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:22 pm

    Upgrades effect the attack speed?
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    Re: Quickest Attack

    Post by Rifter7 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:26 pm

    and the way it was upgraded.


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    Re: Quickest Attack

    Post by XachAttack on Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:29 pm

    Whoa, what? Really o.O? Could you specify, Rifter?


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    Re: Quickest Attack

    Post by Rifter7 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:31 pm

    its very small, but it can effect the ability to stunlock with bigger weapons. i think ewgf or vageta has a video somewhere that references it, but theres more to it.

    i use kats, +15 claymores and +5 mlgs (which has one of the fastest greatsword swings btw), so i never bothered to test the frames on them all..
    i can soon tho. just let me get an hdpvr and i should have a video of all the framerates for spells and weapons in a month or two.


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    Re: Quickest Attack

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:43 pm

    Spurgun wrote:Common sense tells me that daggers should be the fastest.
    I agree with this.
    Also, perhaps fist weapons?

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    Re: Quickest Attack

    Post by Uparkaam on Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:12 pm

    Left handed fist weapon attack is a really quick jab. It's one of the fastest attacks in the game.


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    Re: Quickest Attack

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:13 pm

    The upgrade path more than likely affects the hitstun, not the weapon's speed. And if it does affect the speed, it most likely affects the recovery, not the start-up, similar to how heavier weapons of a given class are affected.

    I've been slowly gathering some frame data, so far the fastest attack I've come across was fist rolling R1, at 8 frames. But I haven't tested any other comparably fast movesets, it was mostly just rolls and BKGA, with a few miscellaneous attacks thrown in.


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    Re: Quickest Attack

    Post by Jansports on Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:03 pm

    The Curved sword / piercing sword "Kick" is really fast to start as well. Would be a good one to test to compete with fist roll I imagine
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    Re: Quickest Attack

    Post by Infighter on Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:54 pm

    PGS, Spear's, and Gold Tracer IMHO


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    Re: Quickest Attack

    Post by reim0027 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:14 pm

    Sat - are you doing a complete evaluation of the frames? I'd be interested to know the results.


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    Re: Quickest Attack

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:47 pm

    reim0027 wrote:Sat - are you doing a complete evaluation of the frames? I'd be interested to know the results.
    Yeah, but I'm being lazy about it and doing it really slowly. Like one or two attacks a week.

    Here's what I've recorded so far:
    Code:
    <25% BREAKPOINTS:
          0 -    0%
          1 -  8.3%
          2 - 16.6%
          3 -  25%

    <50% BREAKPOINTS:
          0 -    %
          1 -    %
          2 -    %
          3 -    %

    Flip:
    0 - 14 invulnerable,  5 recovery, 19 total
    1 - 14 invulnerable,  6 recovery, 20 total
    2 - 14 invulnerable,  7 recovery, 21 total
    3 - 14 invulnerable,  8 recovery, 22 total

    Fast:
    0 - 12 invulnerable,  9 recovery, 21 total
    1 - 12 invulnerable, 10 recovery, 22 total
    2 - 12 invulnerable, 11 recovery, 23 total
    3 - 12 invulnerable, 12 recovery, 24 total

    Mid:
    0 - 12 invulnerable, 18 recovery, 30 total
    1 -    invulnerable,    recovery,    total
    2 -    invulnerable,    recovery,    total
    4 -    invulnerable,    recovery,    total

    Nomenclature:
    1 = One-handed
    2 = Two-handed

    R = Rolling Attack
    S = Sprinting Attack
    L = Light Attack
    l = Follow-up Light Attack
    H = Heavy Attack
    h = Follow-up Heavy Attack
    P = Push or Dodge Attack
    J = Jump Attack


    BKGA:
    Block: 2F lock at start-up. Instant-block window is 1F.

    1L: 20 start-up, 3 active, 17 roll-recovery, 12 attack-recovery, 17 block-recovery, 19 step recovery, tracks 15-20
    1l: 19 start-up, 4 active, 17 roll-recovery, 12 attack-recovery, 17 block-recovery, 19 step recovery,
    2L: 15 start-up, 4 active, 20 roll-recovery, 16 attack-recovery, 20 block-recovery, 22 step recovery, tracks  5-11
    2l: 18 start-up, 6 active, 16 roll-recovery, 12 attack-recovery, 16 block-recovery, 18 step recovery, tracks 11-17
    2R: 18 start-up, 5 active, 19 roll-recovery, 19 attack-recovery, 23 block-recovery, 25 step recovery, tracks  1- 7

    Uchigatana:

    1L: 12 start-up, 5 active,  7 roll-recovery,  5 attack-recovery,  8 block-recovery, 10 step recovery, tracks  6-12
    1l: 13 start-up, 4 active,  6 roll-recovery,  4 attack-recovery,  8 block-recovery, 10 step recovery, tracks  6-13

    Start-up is obvious. Active is the frames during which the attack deals damage. Some attacks have active frames that aren't relevant to all situations, like they'll only hit something if it's above your head or behind you or something. Recovery comes in several different forms. Rolling is how long it takes before you can roll away, attack is how long before you can start another attack (This is assuming you're mashing R1/R2, I haven't tested at all with off-hand weapons, it might be different), block recovery is how long it takes before you can block, and step recovery is how long it takes before you can recover by walking. Tracking is the frames of start-up during which you can change your facing angle.

    How tracking works is that you begin to pivot on the frame that you input a new facing angle (it starts as soon as possible if you were holding the facing angle before then) and then finishes the pivot by the final frame. E.G., if you attacked with an Uchi and held the directional stick backwards, your character would face forward for frames 1 through 5, start their pivot on frame 6, and finish on frame 12. If you did the same thing but didn't input the directional command until frame 11, then your character would turn in one frame, completing the pivot by frame 12.

    You can also do instant tracking. Somebody posted a video about some "ravioli" step (I cannot get over this name) by inputting a direction right after you input a command, be it using an item, doing an attack, parrying, whatever. Not sure if it works on blocking or spellcasting, though, I haven't tried it. Anyways, when you do this, your character actually turns before they start up this action. Useful, but it takes 2 frames for your character to turn around before they do anything. So if you, for example, do an instant tracking Uchi 1H R1, you effectively have 14 frames of start-up instead of 12, because it takes you 2 frames to turn around. However, if somebody's trying to BS you, it might be the better move, since you'll probably only be vulnerable to a BS for 1 or 2 frames, depending on your opponent's positioning, instead of 6 or 7.

    Also worth noting that while block recovery is 2 frames faster than step recovery for every attack I've tested, it doesn't make you to attack faster than step recovery if you want to repeat the same move several times (E.G., if you want to do Claymore 1H R2 thrust repeatedly without doing the upward swing.) because, from what I've tested, there seems to be a 2-frame period of time when you start blocking where you cannot do anything. However, it should make the timing slightly easier, and it still allows you to move and/or block 2 frames earlier than if you do step recovery.


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    Re: Quickest Attack

    Post by Sevans on Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:03 pm

    Awesome info, Saint.

    Have you looked at the casting speed difference between low dexterity pyromancies (etc.) and 45 dexterity?


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    Re: Quickest Attack

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:06 pm

    No.


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    Re: Quickest Attack

    Post by Cabjoy on Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:31 pm

    Maybe Dragon Body roll headbutt. That's tight! big grin
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    Re: Quickest Attack

    Post by T-King-667 on Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:08 am

    any running light attack(1h or 2h) with any halberd in water (deep enough for movement penalty) that is honestly the quickest attack.


    Last edited by T-King-667 on Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Quickest Attack

    Post by raecor14 on Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:13 am

    i find the falchion 2H R1 is quite fast


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    Re: Quickest Attack

    Post by WandererReece on Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:32 pm

    I have no idea if this is true. I've heard upgrading a weapon with lightning will make it attack faster.

    However, I also heard upgrading dex increased attack speed, and that was proven wrong.


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