Ash Lake Giant Skull

Acidic_Cook wrote:
The Giants that you see in Lordran have a similar face as those of the titanite Demons (with exception of Gough, but that is because he wears a helmet. You never actually see a giant's face. Ever. And their heads are too small.

Acidic_Cook wrote:I'm making a connection between the Demons and Everlasting, since both clearly have tree roots. (get it?). Anyways...

Acidic_Cook wrote:
However, remember that the mushrooms have to attachments: Elizabeth's Mushrooms and Pine Resin. Pine Resin is known to give electric qualities, known to be bane of dragons. Elizabeth Mushrooms are the only thing that resembles replenishment, which you must know is a sunlight miracle (attached to gwyn's daughter). Both aspects are tied towards the gods of the sun.

A lot of mushrooms in reality, where we live, have curative properties. A lot of plants do in general. I wouldn't say that connects them to anything. It's a similarity that they share, but I don't really see it as a connection. If anything I'd say they're the only curative item in the game that isn't in some way realistically connected to the gods.

Pretty much everything else that heals you has some form of stated connection. The Divine Blessings, clearly with the word 'divine' have a connection. The bonfires are clearly related to Gwyn and the age of fire. Humanity, clearly is related to the Gods in some way, if you'd argue that man originally came from the gods. The shield Leeroy uses, I can't remember the name off the top of my head, is related to the WoW, which is a religious covenant that worships the gods. I think that's it that heals you, isn't it? The miracles, just by name, 'miracle,' are related to the gods, as well as the stat 'faith,' which clearly has similar connotations. All of those items heal you permanently though, while the mushroom does something a little different. It increases your max life temporarily, then drops it back down. It's more of a natural curative. Not as miraculous as the others, and more temporary, and corporeal. I think, by its very nature, it's separate from the others actually.

Acidic_Cook wrote:

Shall we play some more?

PlasticandRage wrote:I support your connection with Oolicile though. I
think that's clearly relevant. If anything it's making me think a
little more about the fate of Oolicile. They do all this stuff that
could be construed as challenging the gods. They create all this magic,
that's separate from the God's magic in nature. I'm speculating here,
but they could have grown these mushrooms, as I think Elizabeth says
she's always been a steward of Dusk, whose a member of the Oolicile
royal family, and the mushrooms have these restorative properties that
are different than those of the gods. Then they resurrect primeval man,
Manus, to essentially study him. All this could be relevant to a kind of
science vs. faith theme. Especially with the result of their
resurrection of primeval man. They summon this ancient powerful entity,
expecting to be able to subdue it, and it destroys their entire
civilization. That's a statement.

Acidic_Cook wrote:And that, Plastic, is one thing I have said: You have your opinions and thoughts, and my speculation is just that: Speculation. Solid, I try to be... but theory is all it is, until said otherwise by the maker.

Acidic_Cook wrote:Mostly Artorias being the Four Kings,

Interesting. I though this ring speaked of possibly a Demon, such as the FIresage or such, as it would have been created by the Chaos Flame, like it was born from the former Witch of Izalith. But I realized that it might not be the case, as many of the Demons have no problem walking on Lava (even though they are not immune to fire). Perhaps our lovely friend, Kirk, was a Son of the Witch of Izalith. as far as I know, he is a he, as the armor states he is a he. He seems to be able to know the path threw Lost Izalith and the Demon Ruins, without the need of the Ring. Solaire and the Onion Knight could have also used that path as well, although the Onion Knight uses pyromancy such as Flash Sweat, as that pyromancy was created in his country, so it would explain how he went by. Solaire could have taken the same path as the player as well, threw the lava plains by using the tree roots to go by.

But why would such a being as Kirk be going to Lost Izalith, if he was not the son of the Witch of Izalith. Solaire was searching for his own sun, and the Onion Knight was looking for adventure. I don't know of Kirk was hunting the player, but I think he was searching for something. Perhaps, being the son of the Witch of Izalith, he was finishing unfinished buisness, or was trying to fix the problems created by his mother. It seems that he easily left the Witch of Izalith and her domain easily, as the ring says that he just tossed the ring away, with ease. perhaps he had no need for it, and departed off. Joining the Darkwraiths as the Knight of Thorns. Usually, people just see him as an enemy in the game, as everything else. However, the Developers put him their for a reason, as they did with everything. He was not just for gameplay. He is part of the storyline, and he has his own history, and his armor, affection of covenant, his items, and other such things tell his story. Perhaps he was born burned, and was raised by his mother, the Witch of Izalith, and his sisters. The witch sisters, creating the Charred Ring for him, was meant for him to walk the plains of fire with ease. However, whatever happened, maybe departing from the Ruins after or during the procedure to create a Second Flame, he left, tossing his ring away, as he was done with his family, and moved on. He seems to later join the Darkwraiths, as a creature who hunts Humanity, in which case later on, once the area was flooded, and he became a warrior himself, he set off once again to the home he once lived in, maybe to clean lose ends created by his mother. A strange man, but an interesting man.

I have stated this before, and I have stated this once more for clarification of the subject. This hypothesis has been claimed since the old forums, and seems to still hold strong today. In this, the Son of Chaos is speculated to be Kirk, the Knight of Thorns. Let me explain.

Kirk is a Darkwraith defined by others for his Armour. As he wore it before joining the Chaos Covenant, it can be said that Kirk had it when he was still with Kaathe as a warrior of the dark. However, the knight's thorns are the art of the Chaos World itself. Such thorns were used by the usage of the Machetes, in which the Capra Demons use as their primary weapons, and the Exiled King also is armed with a Notched Whip, and is/was part of the Chaos Covenant as well. With this, it can be said that the Thorn qualities are the arts of which the people of Izalith, and later Lost Izalith, used as their primary physical weapons. The only other source of weaponry comes from the Arch trees and the Dead Demons across the world, as shown by the Bull and Tree demons. With this, Kirk was once in Izalith before it was consumed by the Chaos Flame.

The second is the quality of the armour, as well as the texture of it. Such colours of the armour show it to be that of a burned quality, similar to that of the black knights. It can be said that such an armour was forged in Izalith at a time, during which it used the flames of Izalith for such an art. Even more so, the armour is that of a feminine quality, in which its form is that of a round and a... perfect form, for a lack of a term. Such qualities would be said for a feminine being, but Kirk is a male. Such as he was raised and born is a mostly female family, such qualities of Kirk would be similar as such. Although, due to the fact that the witches are more so defined as 'thorny' than rosy, as the witch of the swamp shows as such rudeness before a somewhat connection is made, Kirk would not have such feminine qualities such as Dusk or Rhea, but more so a dangerous one.

The last is what he does for the Chaos Servants. As a Darkwraith is defined for taking humanity to prove as the Undead Warrior to be the new Dark Lord... it seems odd that he would join the Chaos Covenant, of all places. Even more so, as the Large Flame Ember, an ember that was once stored in New Londo (as hinted by the skeletal blacksmith, Vamos), and is now found in the Demon Ruins... the only being in which came from New Londo to Lost Izalith was the Darkwraith himself, Kirk. Even more so, it seems that he knows his way across the world, as it would take the knight some time to go across the plain (Solaire either walks with you from the long route, or goes threw the way of the shortcut too... the Onion Knight will be talked about in a later time). As Kirk might have used the shortcut, or took a different route all together, he seems to know the way across the plains. As he hunts for humanity, he might be obtaining humanity in order to serve the White Lady, in order to save her. His helmet and armour covers him entirely, which does not show the sores. However such sores could have been created from the thorns that he has now, or perhaps other means of being born male.

As such, the evidence defines that Kirk is the Son of Chaos. Such speculation seems to put the reason and logic to him, while the other demons do not so, although the two, both the Firesage and the Ceaseless Discharge, gives hints of similarity. However it seems that such demons do not define it as such. Kirk has done too much to have just been a Chaos Servant, as those who join are usually bound to it from infestation (the exiled king has an egg for a head, covered by silk). Other than the flooding of New Londo, he could have left their before hand, as he could have left Izalith before it was engulfed by the Chaos, before the Witch of the Swamp left. It could explain why Kirk had readily left the ring, as he was either escaping the world with what he already knew, or he wanted to leave the world due to some... complications, with what the world of Izalith followed. He might have departed when the age of darkness first began, as might be the reason why he joined the Darkwraiths later on, to bring back the Age of Darkness once more. Of course, he might have come to some resolutions and revelations later on in his life.

Acidic_Cook wrote:22. Artorias, the Dark King

A King as it may. The popular being he is, of all of the community. His obscurity and his mystery is what many love him for. His afflictions with Dark Souls, that many know about him, does with the forest covenant and the darkwraiths. As is, he was also one of the Four Knights of Gwyn, who were his most loyal subjects of man. They were granted power of Gwyn's soul for their loyalty, and were all followers of Gwyn. However, the rest of it is mostly a blur, as all of dark souls is mostly a blur. However, it is time, after a long strife of the Dark, that Artorias' subjection and effects of the Lore of Dark Souls be said. The mystery he is has been a problem for me, as the rest of the Darkwraiths and the Subjects are. However, it is time for him to 'shine', although soon to be Ironic by other people's eyes.

But first, let us discuss the world around him. As we know, all four of the knights of Gwyn are defines by a beast of the world. The Dragonslayer was a Lion; Hawkeye the Bird; the Lord's Blade the Hornet; the Abysswalker being the Wolf. The Bird and Hornet knight have both been seen as obscure more than the other two, as Hawkeye's ring is found in a chest, while Cirian's Ring is found on her carcass, in the Grave of Artorias. Or the Identity, at least. Ornstein seems to be guarding the princess, or at least his soul in the body of a Golem or illusive figure. However the debate whether Ornstein is real when we fight him or not, as in the Real Knight of Leo, is subjective and questionable at best. The Abysswalker, however...

Out of all three knights, he is the most mysterious and the most popular of the four. With no appearance to show, with his identity mostly being subjected by the weapons he wielded, his Wolf Ring, and the areas, both New Londo and the Forest, all characterize him to being a Knight of valor to all. However... it seems that he changed after time of his Lord's departure. We have no idea what Artorias was or is, nor who he is. Only who he was in the past. Everything about Artorias has been obscure and unknown. However, it seems that such a being has shown, after the Search for his Lore of the World.

The History of the Abysswalker is told by the factor of many of his items. He was a Hunter of the Darkwraiths at a time, in which he used the divine sword he had, in which he was one of the greatest swordsman in terms of the Greatsword. However Divine his weapon was, it was based on not only faith but also mostly intelligence as well. Being a balanced sword, it can be said that he was both strong and fast, as well as an intelligent and faithful being than most of the other four Knights, as his Greatsword and Wolf Ring shows in contrast. However, after confronting with the Dark Beasts of the Abyss, which can easily be said to be the Primordial Serpents, the Glutton Dragons, it can be said that Artorias Changed to the Dark. As he went into the Abyss, he confronted the Beasts of the Abyss and joined their covenant, turning into a Darkwraith. When he joined, apparently he became cursed. As his intelligence and Faith decreased in terms of his second patch of his sword, the Cursed Sword of Artorias, it shows that its divine aspects have left it, as well as how great of a faithful and intelligent being he was before joining the covenant. Now it is hard to say what happened to Artorias, but he has left clues for others to see. The one main factor all noticed is the Forest Covenant. As they protect the grave of Artorias, which contains the Covenant of Artorias, the Covenant to be able to walk the Abyss, Artorias seemingly left a testing ground for all those to follow his domain, if a brave warrior was able to past the test of both faith, intelligence, strength, and speed.

Now Artorias is one of the most liked beings of all of Dark Souls, as well as the Two golden guardians of the Princess and the Royal knight seen in the Asylum. However the fame of Artorias, as I have noticed, is false and seemingly perspective. Why? Because of the lack of information that shows. Artorias does not battle the Four Kings when he goes to the Abyss, but instead finds the Beast of the Abyss, which we all know are the primordial serpents. Interestingly enough, the four kings description is utterly defined by the Soul of the beings, or more properly the 'being'.

"Soul of one of the Four Kings, who fell to Dark. A fragment of a Lord Souls discovered at the dawn of the Age of Fire.

"Lord Gwyn recognized the foresight of these four great leaders of New Londo, and granted them their ranks and the fragments of a great soul. Although this is not a full Lord Soul, it can still satiate the Lord Vessel."

Now this is interesting. Instead of getting the soul of the 'Four Kings', you get a soul from One of the four kings. It seems odd to see such things. Perhaps it was a typing error in terms of From? No, it was on purpose. So where did the other three go? Heh, well, let us look at the Golden Boys. Instead of getting two souls form both bosses, we get one soul from both. Why is it that we do not receive both? It is because that these two creatures of Gold absorbs the fallen comrades soul and uses it as its power. Could it be that the Four Kings killed the other three and absorbed it into one soul, owned by the creature known as the Four Kings? Yes. What also supports this, is that even though a total of Four of these Abyss Monsters can fight you at once, you can fight a total of 7 to 8 Kings in total in one fight with the creature. It could be that it lends the power of duplication similar to that of Pinwheel, which uses the Power of Dark in order to duplicate itself (in which seemingly questions the ability of Humanity as a Soul). Whatever the case may be, the Four Kings is not Kings as it is King. Their was Four Kings, but now their is One King, who acts as the four it seems.

So who is this King? Artorias the Abysswalker? Yes. What monstrousity would lead to such an answer as the Great knight being a Dark and Corrupted King? Well for one his Cursed Weapon shows that he did downgrade and turn towards the Abyss as his new Ideals. Another fact is that the Creature depends on a Greatsword, in which he uses not only with the power of strength, but with speed as well. Even more so, the sword is also magical, in which his swords were made of magic damage with the physical as well. But these are Minor Supports. The main factor is that Gwyn chose four great leaders in order to Shepard and take care of humanity in New Londo while he is gone. He had four great leaders of Knights who were sub-commanders under Gwyn's wing, the Four Knights of the Animals. All four, the Lion, the Hornet, the Hawk, and the Wolf. As these four were selected to become the Four Kings to lead New Londo, Anor Londo was to be lead by the Gods of Gwyn with his absence, so Gwyn controlled the primary popular hubs of Lordran.

But what about Ornstein? You battle him as he is guarding the Princess. First, I would like to say that the creature we know as Ornstein could be entirely NOT real. For one, as all Sentients and most Winged Demons, as well as a few Silver Knights, are indeed illusions, they still give inventory and souls as most creatures can do. The Sentient Giants can drop a Giant's Halberd, the Winged Demon the Demon Spear, and they all generate Souls upon defeat. What is to say that the Soul of Ornstein and Smough is not a conjuration of such factors. But what if they aren't? Then they could be golems similar to the Iron Giant of Sen's Fortress. As it was a giant Iron Armor with the Soul generated from the bones of a dragon, it could be said that they used the souls of both Ornstein and Smough to do so. However it might be more due to the Illusion than the Golem status, as the Four Kings (or 'Four King') would have probably hunted down and absorbed all of the three souls of the Four Kings of New Londo to become one, and killed them all off. In this case, whatever it may be, it can generally be seen that the Leo Knight is just another abstracted illusion as the rest, tricking the player to think it is real (which probably has done so successfully. It had for me).

So back to Artorias. As he had turned to the Four Kings, it could be said that either he or followers, or probably former followers, of Artorias had created a testing ground for those to seemingly travel the Abyss, so that they can battle him and try to fulfill what the Glutton Dragon, Kaathe, has set aside for in order for his plans to succeed. That is general. However thanks to findings of a friend (which I have confirmed to be true from searching the internet), as well as the findings in game by me, I have found interesting connections towards the Abysswalker. One of them is Velka and the Crossbreed. In the Painted World, when you turn the wheel in the sewage of the Painted World, you would notice a statue of a Woman, wrapped around partially what appears to be a little girl, and both wearing hoods over them. It can be said that after adventuring that the little girl is the Crossbreed. The woman with the black marks on her, however, is the witch goddess, Velka; The Goddess of Sin. As we know, the two miracles associated with the Goddess are both seemingly 'dark' looking, in terms of being a breed of both black and purple. Similar to that of the Dark Hand, the Four Kings, and the Magic of Pinwheel. Seemingly Miracles similar to the Dark. A stretched Tieing as it is... but her statue is not only seen in the Painted World. Interestingly enough, the Fog Gate that leads to the Four Kings has two statues with the Fog Gate between, with the same design as the Statue of the Painted World. It seems that it ties that the Goddess of Sin uses the Dark for her miracles. With her being seen in New Londo VIA statue, it might be that Artorias follows similar premises towards her. As well, both New Londo and Velka have ties towards Carim. As items of Carim are seen in New Londo, as well as Ingward, as well as the Goddess of Sin being a Goddess worshiped in Carim, it can be said that the Dark World and Goddess have a similar background in these terms, which is interesting by itself. How they are tied other than these connections, however, is still hard to say.

The other factors of interest, are two beings of Lordran. They are known as Petrus of Thorolund, and Shiva of the East. Petrus, as he states in a scripted dialogue, although removed from the in-game (but on the disc, if I read it correctly), is that when he is attacked, that he is a 'Wolf in sheep's clothing'. If this states that he was intended to hint affiliation towards the Abysswalker seems to be so, however why it was removed from the Dialogue seen be the player when the game was shipped is unknown. Possibly to remove the factors of Artorias to be affiliated with this, maybe, but his dialogue could be seen after some people had decrypted all the dialogues of the characters, both in game and removed. Shiva of the East, however, does not have deleted comments as such. The Eastern knight is armored with what I appears to be an Asian Dragon-Dog. Now as the Wolf, Artorias, works for the Glutton dragons, it could say that he works for such beings. Even more so, the weapon he favors is a Curved Greatsword, which is in general a fancy Greatsword meant for the lightly armored. It appears that he also favors similar fashions of weaponry as Artorias himself. Now whoever Shiva is to Artorias is unknown, although it can be said that he might know who Artorias was, or even is now. Although due to him having such a creature on his shoulder, he could be a hound working for the Stone Dragon, as he is later found in Blighttown, close to the Great Hollow. However the inventory he has indicates that he mostly scavenges in Blighttown, Sen's, and the Demon Ruins (except for the Demon's Spear, which is out of place). Whoever Shiva truly works for, it is clear that his affliction to Artorias is seen. These two are the only beings that have ties to Artorias.

As it is, Dark Souls is above all a foggy game, in terms to the true Lore of Dark Souls. Even more so, many see it as a puzzle game, as the Lore is fractured into different pieces of information, scattered across the world. Artorias is an example of such things. It seems that Artorias is a good candidate to be the Four Kings, as his inventory, the Four kings, and other aspects support such things, and it makes sense as to what has happened to him. Although i have thought of him as being dead, it might be said otherwise as untrue as much as this. However more information supports this post than the supposed carcass where the Wolf Ring is. If the Four Kings is indeed Artorias the Abysswalker, it seems that New Londo can easily be said to be wrapped up in terms of Lore. IF it is true. The only factor, the new factor, that needs fulfillment is Velka, the Goddess of Sin.

The search continues

Thank you Emergence, Maneater Mildred, and Henkyona for some information of the two characters. Appreciate it guys. Never would of found the info without ya. That I say is true. Looking up removed dialogue or a mythical creature of a foreign land... would not think to do so in many cases. Thanks.