FROM if I needed my hand held I'd be playing CoD!

Tolvo wrote:I think there is a difference between having a game be challenging, and having a game be difficult.

Uncharted 3 on its hardest difficulty in the last few levels is far more difficult to me than any of the games you've listed. But I wouldn't call it challenging, it just kills you.

I feel the same way about a lot of what you listed, those games often go for cheap deaths that aren't about reactions. Often its about dying, then remembering the layout.

I'm mostly talking about IWBTG and Kaizo Mario in that regard.

I like that in Dark Souls there really aren't ******** deaths, excluding the bridge Wyvern. That is a pretty dirty kill. Other than that if you have the skills to, you can beat any challenge on your first try.

Yeah, IWBTG and Super Kaizo are in a different league (or style) of difficulty, but the same factors still apply:
-Level (or enemy) knowledge
-Reactions
-Bit o' luck

COD (especially 5 (WaW)) was kinda a pathetic type of hard and wasn't skill based.

Thing with DS, it can be as challenging or easy as you like (within reason). You can choose to use shield, healing etc and it is still an "enjoyable" game (good level of difficulty to make you pay attention), alternatively you can restrict things and increase the difficulty.

I think a good way to look at it in regards to difficulty and challenge, is that Dark Souls is sort of entry level hardcore. Now there are games which are way more strict than this game and challenge the user more. Mostly you'll find them as indie made PC games from what I've seen. This is still a pretty difficult game when you compare it to the rest of the market. To the average gamer this is a pretty difficult game actually probably for one main reason, it doesn't directly explain anything to you.

The levels have subtle hints that lead you to making certain choices or to get you to expect certain challenges. It shows you locked shortcuts early, it will have black burn marks on the ground to hint to you that ranged fire enemies are ahead. Most gamers will never notice these sorts of things and just rush ahead to die. But yes if you do actually pay attention to your surroundings the game can be very easy.

Most gamers though will just blindly run ahead and die. While it sounds when you played the game, you kept your eyes open and were perceptive thus making the game seem really easy to you.

It seems to me that DKS only kills you when YOU make a mistake. In that regard it is very fair.

For me, everytime I die it was mostly because I was either trying to rush through, I tried to be too greedy in attacking, or I just made a poor choice when facing a mob or something more difficult.

Yeh, the entry level of Dark Souls is on par / higher than the average games hardest difficulty.

Always my way of viewing it, Dark Souls is fair but merciless. If you make a mistake you get punished, but it won't typically try to kill you outright. Of course there are a few exceptions to this rule, the first Seath fight being another.

Tolvo wrote:Always my way of viewing it, Dark Souls is fair but merciless. If you make a mistake you get punished, but it won't typically try to kill you outright. Of course there are a few exceptions to this rule, the first Seath fight being another.

That's it exactly^^

I haven't played most of those games you guys mentioned except NG2. That game IMHO wasn't fun though. You just had to be fast as hell and lucky too, and sometimes have to keep up a perfect streak for way too long. It felt like work to me. Needless to say, I didn't finish it.

BIG TIME MASTER wrote:

Tolvo wrote:Always my way of viewing it, Dark Souls is fair but merciless. If you make a mistake you get punished, but it won't typically try to kill you outright. Of course there are a few exceptions to this rule, the first Seath fight being another.

That's it exactly^^

I haven't played most of those games you guys mentioned except NG2. That game IMHO wasn't fun though. You just had to be fast as hell and lucky too, and sometimes have to keep up a perfect streak for way too long. It felt like work to me. Needless to say, I didn't finish it.

NG2 was definitely a chore. I only completed it on the easiest difficulty.
Started the next difficulty up and part way through, I just decided "f*** it, it ain;t worth the effort"

I would recommend DMC4 though, I am up to the second to last difficulty and it is still pretty enjoyable (and very difficult).
The last difficulty in DMC4, you die in 1 hit from EVERYTHING and the enemies have more health and stat boosts (faster etc). Not looking forward to that >_<

BIG TIME MASTER wrote:It seems to me that DKS only kills you when YOU make a mistake. In that regard it is very fair.

For me, everytime I die it was mostly because I was either trying to rush through, I tried to be too greedy in attacking, or I just made a poor choice when facing a mob or something more difficult.

I can personally agree with the rushing through part. Also, you may not be rushing, but the annoying camera system might lock onto an enemy, causing you to fall off an edge.

But it is mainly about taking your time. Since I have played the game for a long time now, and beat it many times now, I can go through complete play-throughs without dying, unless necesary like with Seath.

Dark Spirit EliteBiker20 wrote:

BIG TIME MASTER wrote:It seems to me that DKS only kills you when YOU make a mistake. In that regard it is very fair.

For me, everytime I die it was mostly because I was either trying to rush through, I tried to be too greedy in attacking, or I just made a poor choice when facing a mob or something more difficult.

I can personally agree with the rushing through part. Also, you may not be rushing, but the annoying camera system might lock onto an enemy, causing you to fall off an edge.

But it is mainly about taking your time. Since I have played the game for a long time now, and beat it many times now, I can go through complete play-throughs without dying, unless necesary like with Seath.

Turn off "auto-camera recovery" in the options, if you haven't already. It will eliminate most of those silly deaths that spike our blood pressure.

BIG TIME MASTER wrote:

Dark Spirit EliteBiker20 wrote:

BIG TIME MASTER wrote:It seems to me that DKS only kills you when YOU make a mistake. In that regard it is very fair.

For me, everytime I die it was mostly because I was either trying to rush through, I tried to be too greedy in attacking, or I just made a poor choice when facing a mob or something more difficult.

I can personally agree with the rushing through part. Also, you may not be rushing, but the annoying camera system might lock onto an enemy, causing you to fall off an edge.

But it is mainly about taking your time. Since I have played the game for a long time now, and beat it many times now, I can go through complete play-throughs without dying, unless necesary like with Seath.

Turn off "auto-camera recovery" in the options, if you haven't already. It will eliminate most of those silly deaths that spike our blood pressure.

Thanks man. Someone told me this before, and I completely forgot about it. Hopefully this will stop me from falling at the aquaduct when I try to run past the lame undead soldiers.

Let's just say Dark Souls difficulty is nothing like Metal Gear Solid difficulty on EUROPEAN EXTREME!

If you had to play Dark Souls without a single enemy seeing you it would be very very very hard. Haha.

I do agree with Gaz, that they knew the option was there to shoot Manus from the cliff. That's not a simple "hole" in the programming. He's right there in plain view. They could have extended the rock face on his left, and obscured him, but they didn't. I can't really speculate on the reasons for this, but one thing's for sure, it will probably ruin a lot of the coop.

Surely the Manus exploit is similar to the Ceasless Discharge "method". The devs will have included and people use it with the excuse of "it's strategy" or "tactics".

The People at From Software are Humans like you an me .
Humans arent perfect and thus make mistakes .

They didnt do it on purpose, thats just silly if they were doing it on Purpose it would be actually explained somewhere .

Plus they fixed every Glitch from the Console Versions which shows that they did not do it on Purpose at all .
Hell they even tried to fix the BB-glitch on the Console version, untill someone found out a new way to do it . Which is not From's fault, they did their best to fix it .

And i am pretty sure that the Manus Fog glitch wil be fixed in the next Patch .

i don't want another patch i want the next souls game, if dark souls is tinkered with anymore i'll stop playing, i don't care what they nerf or buff but 3 major ovehauls is too many, i'd really prefer they start on the next game and take into account this sort of thing trather than mess with dks anymore and in the end just generate more complaints about other changes.

NG2! That's my other game. I've got a YT walkthrough video with commentary. I've done 6 run throughs with an original lifebar on the hardest difficulty. The AI is so complex that, at first, it seems like a lot of luck is needed. But, as you learn the game, you realize that isn't so. I guess, that is like any game. The more you understand, the lass random it is and the less "luck" you need to beat it.