[SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

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    [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by Derpwraith on Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:32 am

    As far as I know, both Ornstein and Gough hunted dragons (mostly likely drakes because gwyn did most of the work kicking the dragons' @$$es), so maybe the two were closer than the other two knights. Artorias' job was hunting the Darkwraiths and repelling the abyss, but we all know what happened, I know little of what Ciaran did for lord gwyn specifically though. Artorias and Ciaran were friends, Ciaran may have been in love with Artorias but thats not confirmed, but the fact that she asks the player for Artorias' soul and wanting to die behind his grave supports this.


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by CandleMax on Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:00 am

    I have a feeling that Gough and Ornstein have been around since the war with the dragons, but Artorias and Ciaran came later. The main reason I think this is because of the description of Smough's hammer:
    "Great Hammer from the soul of executioner Smough, who guards the cathedral in the forsaken city of Anor Londo.
    Smough loved his work, and ground the bones of his victims into his
    own feed, ruining his hopes of being ranked with the Four Knights.
    "
    To me that means that it was possible for anyone to become a knight, or at least be as highly ranked as one


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by Derpwraith on Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:20 pm

    CandleMax wrote:I have a feeling that Gough and Ornstein have been around since the war with the dragons, but Artorias and Ciaran came later. The main reason I think this is because of the description of Smough's hammer:
    "Great Hammer from the soul of executioner Smough, who guards the cathedral in the forsaken city of Anor Londo.
    Smough loved his work, and ground the bones of his victims into his
    own feed, ruining his hopes of being ranked with the Four Knights.
    "
    To me that means that it was possible for anyone to become a knight, or at least be as highly ranked as one
    This could mean that a new group of knights can be formed, right? That would be a good part for a direct sequel to the game


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by SEANB240 on Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:29 pm

    I have always wondered about them as well.

    For instance, was it Gwyn that appointed each of them, or was it that he knighted Artorias, who then went about hiring on new knights from different places? I think the latter would make more sense, but I'm not sure if there is any lore that would contradict that.
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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by Derpwraith on Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:33 pm

    SEANB240 wrote:I have always wondered about them as well.

    For instance, was it Gwyn that appointed each of them, or was it that he knighted Artorias, who then went about hiring on new knights from different places? I think the latter would make more sense, but I'm not sure if there is any lore that would contradict that.
    Ornstein is the captain of the Four Knights, Artorias isn't the first.


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by SEANB240 on Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:40 pm

    InfiniteDoomsday wrote:
    Ornstein is the captain of the Four Knights, Artorias isn't the first.

    Ooooh, my bad. Thanks for that.
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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by menzinho on Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:03 pm

    I think Orns, Gough, Ciaran and Arty were all present during the War against the dragons BUT, they were not high ranking knights (know the part in the intro "Gwyn, Lord of Sunlight, and his faithful knights" they could be in the middle of all those XD) i mean, they earned their ranks after said war, since they were so good at gutting dragons, they were promoted to special ranks of gutting them to the last one
    But as the number of dragons dimmed, so did their function, so they found new purposes, Arty took on the vow to banish the dark of the Abyss and Orns became the guardian of the cathedral
    As for Gough and Ciaran we don't have much, Gough for one could not do much after the last dragon was downed, since he was blinded (that is a fact, a group of people blinded him, read his helmet descrip) i say he returned to Anor Londo and gave his ring to the blacksmith, disappearing later
    now onto their relasionship, i say Arty was the most charismatic one, since all seem to like him (Ciaran, Gough, Dusk, Elizabeth, Alvina, etc...) but for the others i can't say much


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by OrnsteinBro on Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:28 pm

    InfiniteDoomsday wrote:
    Ornstein is the captain of the Four Knights, Artorias isn't the first.

    I'm not sure where I read this originally, but I think someone mentioned once that it's possible Ornstein wasn't always the captain of the knights and that he only rose to power after the fall of Artorias.


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by samster628 on Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:37 pm

    menzinho wrote:I think Orns, Gough, Ciaran and Arty were all present during the War against the dragons BUT, they were not high ranking knights (know the part in the intro "Gwyn, Lord of Sunlight, and his faithful knights" they could be in the middle of all those XD) i mean, they earned their ranks after said war, since they were so good at gutting dragons, they were promoted to special ranks of gutting them to the last one
    But as the number of dragons dimmed, so did their function, so they found new purposes, Arty took on the vow to banish the dark of the Abyss and Orns became the guardian of the cathedral
    As for Gough and Ciaran we don't have much, Gough for one could not do much after the last dragon was downed, since he was blinded (that is a fact, a group of people blinded him, read his helmet descrip) i say he returned to Anor Londo and gave his ring to the blacksmith, disappearing later
    now onto their relasionship, i say Arty was the most charismatic one, since all seem to like him (Ciaran, Gough, Dusk, Elizabeth, Alvina, etc...) but for the others i can't say much

    Great ideas and evidence too. + 1. after all that great dragon war was where things seem to have become truly defined. before that its just lakes and tree's.


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by menzinho on Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:55 pm

    and giant immovable dragons who did not die (Nito must have hated them sooo bad XD) don't forget about them XD


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by Derpwraith on Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:41 pm

    Ornstein was widely believed to be the captain of the four knights, as his armor description suggests. Artorias traveled to Oolacile because of the spread of the abyss there, Gough might have been sent there to slay Kalameet, and Ciaran's purpose for venturing to Oolacile is unknown but perhaps she went there to see if Artorias was okay. (She deeply cares for him <3) Ornstein wasn't there so he probably stayed in the cathedral as usual in case the Abyss spread to Anor Londo.


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by OrnsteinBro on Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:21 pm

    Gough wasn't there to kill Kalameet. He was imprisoned, for reasons unknown.

    Since 'even mighty Anor Londo dared not challenge him (kalameet)', why should they send one of their most famous knights to shoot him down? Gough even admits that he can see no good coming of him sniping kalameet, but he does it anyway because he is so impressed by your spirit (he thinks you're a boss for trying to do something so suicidal).


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by ICEFANG on Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:29 pm

    Smough's Hammer makes it seem like all four existed before him, among the four knights kinda implies there was four there at the time.


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by Dragon Slayer Ornstein on Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:53 pm

    Ornstein is "believed" to be the Captain of the Four Knights, according to the description of his armor.

    I personally believe that he is, referring to something that Gough says in the new content to back this up.

    "Ahh, dragon slaying. Knighthood's highest calling..."

    Ornstein has the title of "dragon slayer" in his name specifically, it seems like he had the highest rank out of anyone and he seems more connected to Gwyn and powers of "Sunlight" than anyone else, what with his obvious affinity for lightning.

    It's hard to determine their relationship overall though, we know that Ciaran had a deep adoration for Artorias, and that Gough was also known for his archery against the dragons...

    I'm eager to know how and why Gough was imprisoned too.


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:12 pm

    I still think that Ciaran's relationship with Artorias was more blind obsession than love. In Dark Souls there is very little good or positive emotion behind the characters.

    Either that or they were simply close comrades from whatever conflicts they fought together in.


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by Orango19 on Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:41 am

    samster628 wrote:Great ideas and evidence too. + 1. after all that great dragon war was where things seem to have become truly defined. before that its just lakes and tree's.

    I don't know why you people think the world was empty before the Age of Fire.
    There were already nations, wars, adventures before the discovery of the Lord Souls. Gwyn and his knights probably warred against other dudes long before he ever heard about the First Flame. Hell; he could have even went after the First Flame with his private army to find the power to overcome some enemy nation.
    Ornstein, Gough, Artorias and Ciaran were there long before Gwyn ascension to godhood.

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    It seems Gwyn's army was divided between the Golden / Yellow dudes (Ornstein, Gough and Smough - whose name sound similiar to Gough's) and the blue dudes (Artorias and Ciaran).
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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by samster628 on Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:53 pm

    No there was nothing of note before the first flame. "with fire came disparity" says the intro. IE before the fire there was no disparity and everything unchangeable. the intro spells it out to you man you are going so deep into theory you forget common sense.


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by Orango19 on Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:45 pm

    samster628 wrote:No there was nothing of note before the first flame.

    Orango19 wrote:I don't know why you people think the world was empty before the Age of Fire.

    "with fire came disparity" says the intro. IE before the fire there was no disparity and everything unchangeable. the intro spells it out to you man you are going so deep into theory you forget common sense.

    You probably consider the appearance of the First Flame and the beginning of the Age of Fire the same thing; but if you pay attention to the Intro; yeah, we are both using the same argument here lol; you'll notice that he Age of Fire began some time AFTER the appearance of the First Flame. ^^

    In the beginning there were just the fog, arch trees and the everlasting dragons.

    Then there was Fire, and with it Life was created.

    Unless you consider that Gwyn, his knights, the Witch, her daughters, Nito and the Pygmy were created at the same exact moment the First Flame appeared, you'll have to admit there was some time between the appearance of Life and the discovery of the First Flame.

    Time enough to families exist (Lloyd being uncle to Gwyn, proving that the Lord of Sunlight did not appear out of nowhere; he was a mortal once); knights existing (they could NOT fight the dragons until the discovery of the First Flame, so what use there would for an army? Unless the humanoid tribes fought amongst themselves, aye); and the best part: Species evolving and creating new species; the Pygmy was a small giant, over time the small giants and the giants turned into different races: Giants and Humans, aye : D

    So hell, there was some big action far before the Discovery of the First Flame.
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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:09 am

    There is a theory that every form of life came from the abyss.


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:13 am

    Can you elaborate on that one.

    Isn't the abyss pure nothingness.


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:23 am

    ViralEnsign_ wrote:Can you elaborate on that one.

    Isn't the abyss pure nothingness.

    Something the narrator says in the intro I can't remember the exact wording bu I think she said "Then from the dark they came" its heavy speculation however.


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:29 am

    "And from the Dark they came, and found the Souls of Lord's within the Flame"

    Hmmm and interesting notion where most people assume life came from the flame.


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by Orango19 on Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:25 am

    I usually consider that sentence as...

    Humanoids were weaklings before the discovery of the First Flame (and humans stayed that way even after its discovery).
    If you pay attention, Izalith is an underground city, New Londo is an underground city, and maybe long ago Gwyn dudes had an underground city of their own. As if all the races were hiding in the Dark. Hiding from the Dragons.


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:33 am

    That could be the case but in the start the first of the pygmy are extremely similar to drudglings, I don't believe that drudglings could build cities.


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Four Knights' relationships with eachother

    Post by samster628 on Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:03 pm

    Orango19 wrote:
    samster628 wrote:No there was nothing of note before the first flame.

    Orango19 wrote:I don't know why you people think the world was empty before the Age of Fire.

    "with fire came disparity" says the intro. IE before the fire there was no disparity and everything unchangeable. the intro spells it out to you man you are going so deep into theory you forget common sense.

    You probably consider the appearance of the First Flame and the beginning of the Age of Fire the same thing; but if you pay attention to the Intro; yeah, we are both using the same argument here lol; you'll notice that he Age of Fire began some time AFTER the appearance of the First Flame. ^^

    In the beginning there were just the fog, arch trees and the everlasting dragons.

    Then there was Fire, and with it Life was created.

    Unless you consider that Gwyn, his knights, the Witch, her daughters, Nito and the Pygmy were created at the same exact moment the First Flame appeared, you'll have to admit there was some time between the appearance of Life and the discovery of the First Flame.

    Time enough to families exist (Lloyd being uncle to Gwyn, proving that the Lord of Sunlight did not appear out of nowhere; he was a mortal once); knights existing (they could NOT fight the dragons until the discovery of the First Flame, so what use there would for an army? Unless the humanoid tribes fought amongst themselves, aye); and the best part: Species evolving and creating new species; the Pygmy was a small giant, over time the small giants and the giants turned into different races: Giants and Humans, aye : D

    So hell, there was some big action far before the Discovery of the First Flame.

    Hmm i see what you are getting at but i beleve there still were no wars. i think its time to drag up a theory from the depths of my mind.

    When the first flame was created nearby primordial humans (who were essentially hollows) were drawn to the flame like moths. We know which people reached the flame and what they did with that power so i will
    not bother to continue. Notice how the humans appeared to be hollows. Capable of warfare - i think not.
    And a big message. Life DID NOT come from the flame but free will and power did. Nothing could happen before the flame. There were humans but they were like hollows - acting on inpulse not knowing what they are doing or why they are doing it. The Lord's who claimed the souls claimed power and free will and some bestowed of it on their familys. Gwyn to his uncle and childeren to name just a few. The Which of I to her daughters and Nito shared his power with nobody. The pigmy had very little power but as the flame waned in the dragon war his power grew allowing him to bestow fragments of his soul , the dark soul, upon the rest of humanity. Thats all for now folks.

    i know this theory may need some modifications. please feel free to dis'gree. (kudos to anyone who can guess what that random quote is from)


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