Why is it I....

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    Why is it I....

    Post by Rudmed on Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:36 am

    Grimace whenever I see a player use a spear. I know the good old trusty tactic, get up in their face, and often times it will work. I just kinda need to vent because I feel spears got so much going for them and very little going against them.

    They can turtle, they have range, the player has to come to you, they have a fast attack speed, and are very difficult to parry. Some of these are fairly self-explantory, but a few I feel I have to flesh out a bit are: Difficult to parry and the player comes to you.

    My friend said trying to stop a spear at the end is like trying to stop a bullet that has left the barrel.....you can't do it. However in the days of spears and swords they could be knocked aside all the time. I understand the point to parry is to riposte, but would it not make a little sense if you parried about midway or at the point of the spear? Knocking the tip out of the way and briefly stunning the user?

    As for the game of cat and mouse. This is often how I feel when I play a spear user. I don't feel like Dark Souls instead here I am chasing this guy around as he pokes me to death and then almost immeditally repostions himself within a second or two after his attack hit/miss or I arrive. Then I chase, and this game goes on and on till either the "mouse" (spear dude) finally puts the "cat" (chaser) down. This could be when the cat rolls forward to close the gap only to find the spear user stabbing him in the back. Another problem with chasing spears besides getting poked to death.

    I guess the above are the two main problem I have with spears. So any advice besides running after them in a game of "cat and mouse"?


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    Re: Why is it I....

    Post by WyrmHero on Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:45 am

    Be the mouse, use a bow.


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    Re: Why is it I....

    Post by Rudmed on Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:00 am

    Bring out the one weapon that beats them at their own game? With poison arrows I take it, and hope that I can poison them then kite?

    Any other suggestions? I'm willing to take them all.


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    Re: Why is it I....

    Post by omega Elf on Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:44 am

    WyrmHero wrote:Be the mouse, use a bow.

    I used a spear yesterday (Silver Knight Spear), I was up against
    a bow user - he lost quite badly.
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    Re: Why is it I....

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:21 am

    Its like greatswords in this game. The designers just seemed to like them that little bit more than the other weapons


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    Re: Why is it I....

    Post by Rifter7 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:44 am

    lol just unlock them, hold your shield up and walk around their spear stabs.

    it's freaking hilarious.


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    Re: Why is it I....

    Post by lextune on Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:30 am

    Roll BS.

    .....I have a high level Ornstein cosplay toon....

    http://tinyurl.com/9uw342p

    ....only thing he ever loses to is expert roll BS'ers. silly


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    Re: Why is it I....

    Post by WyrmHero on Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:31 pm

    What if roll BS didn't exist?


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    Re: Why is it I....

    Post by WyrmHero on Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:37 pm

    omega Elf wrote:
    WyrmHero wrote:Be the mouse, use a bow.

    I used a spear yesterday (Silver Knight Spear), I was up against
    a bow user - he lost quite badly.

    Doesn't always work against a very skilled player if his only weapon is a spear. But against others, I use psychology. When they pull out the spear, I draw my bow and become the mouse. They get tired/annoyed and change to their main/secondary weapon. I change to mine and the cat and mouse game ends.


    Last edited by WyrmHero on Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Why is it I....

    Post by skarekrow13 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:46 pm

    Since I seem to be it's new champion.....

    Spoiler:
    KAAAAAARMIIIIIIIIIIIIC JUUUUUUUUUUSTIIIIIIIIIIIIICEEEEE!

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    Re: Why is it I....

    Post by Rudmed on Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:47 pm

    The problem I have with roll BS is the fact that everytime I get close to them....they just cartwheel away. If I go any other direction that isn't closer to them...they just sit there and keep poking.

    Skare, what does karmic justice do exactly, or were you just joking?


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    Re: Why is it I....

    Post by WyrmHero on Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:51 pm

    He's joking, Karmic Justice sucks very very bad (at least when dueling, it never blows up because it needs 5 consecutive hits). Try to get yourself a bow/crossbow or a spear. If you opt for the spear, try to to turtle them. You have to become the mouse remember.


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    Re: Why is it I....

    Post by Serious_Much on Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:53 pm

    use your environment. failing that use ranged attacks


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    Re: Why is it I....

    Post by skarekrow13 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:53 pm

    Half joking. Only an overly aggressive halfwit would spam R1 enough times to trigger it but if they did it flattens anything. Less damage than WoG but I've never seen it not slam the victim(s) to the ground. Any angle, blocking or not....if you're in it you're hitting the floor. But realistically it's a huge pain to trigger it. However, aside from Soul Mass spells, spears/rapiers/daggers and their fast attacks are the best way to trigger it.


    None of that is the real reason it can work wonders though. Psychology is everything. A VERY sizable chunk will see the aura and say "What the hell is that? I've never seen that." This is not an exaggeration either. Another sizable chunk will have never done anything other than try it once on a character and dismiss it as useless. These people have no functional knowledge of how it works. Then there's even the educated persons about most miracles who know the basics. Unless they've tested it extensively or been reading my propaganda they won't know that you need at least five hits. And even most of these people don't really know how effective it is or isn't because myself and others who've tested haven't spelled out any accurate accounts of how close together the five hits need to be. Is it three seconds? Five seconds? Ten? This is especially hard because it's like a bleed meter but invisible to all parties. There's literally no guarantee of when it will trigger.

    Long story short, the overwhelming majority of people have little to no experience with it, and even those who do will have trouble predicting how aggressive is too aggressive. Make sure they see you cast it and walk casually up to them like you know all the secrets. I bet more often than not you'll find your opponent gives you a few opportunities they wouldn't normally.

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    Re: Why is it I....

    Post by befowler on Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:07 pm

    Do you have a synopsis of its use somewhere I can see? I love using obscure magics (particularly vow of silence) for similar reasons.

    More on topic, once I started focusing on my first love, coop, I basically stopped running into spear turtlers because what kind of sick monster would invade people and then turtle them. I play mostly at sl60, so even the DSS is rare because of its stat reqs. Out of hundreds of pvp fights I have had precisely one spear turtle DW at that level, who did credit to his mighty forebears by walking backwards in a loop around the Anor Londo walkway with a silver knight spear for 20 minutes. It still brings a smile to my face thinking about him out there even now, maintaining his solitary backwards turtling vigil, boring others not nearly as much as he long ago bored himself.


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    Re: Why is it I....

    Post by WyrmHero on Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:45 pm

    Karmic Justice is amazing when you are ganked though, as a final kamikaze attack (after 5 hits you'll probably be dead).


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