Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Share

    Zetsabre
    Newbie
    Newbie

    Posts : 30
    Reputation : -3
    Join date : 2012-04-14

    Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by Zetsabre on Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:27 pm

    This is not a rant.

    I see threads, people complaining about honor. Like the title says, that ended hundreds of years ago. So for those who complain about cheap moves while dueling, they are not being dishonorable, they are using tactics.

    I don't follow any fighting convention, I simply use what is necessary in the fight.
    If I see you flipping all fight with DWGR, I'll use my TWoP.
    If I see you ganging on me with allies, I'll use WotG.
    If I see you flasking, I'll use humanity.

    Above seems to be a one-sided cause and effect situation. So if we were to reverse it, it may seem like cheap tactics. Using TWoP and fish a backstab, TWoP + WotG combo, using humanity to heal yourself.

    However, all of this can be countered. So going back to my original discussion, you should not be complaining, whining, ranting, and crying whenever someone uses a gameplay tool to wreck you. Just means they were using a better combination of tactics.

    Lag backstabs sucks, it's not a broken mechanic, just the limitation of networking around the world.

    If the Laws of War cannot be applied throughout our real world, then the virtual world shouldn't have to also. If you don't believe me, go to the middle east and ask them to fight fair. See what response you get.
    avatar
    BIG TIME MASTER
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1445
    Reputation : 77
    Join date : 2012-06-26
    Location : Junkyard Porto-John

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by BIG TIME MASTER on Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:33 pm

    If you can't beat them join them. That's a hard argument to beat.


    On the flip side, I think most people are disenchanted by the fact that if we all exercise a little class and mutual respect, the game can be a much more fun and fair competition for all. This isn't war, it's a recreational hobby we participate in for fun.

    avatar
    BIG TIME MASTER
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1445
    Reputation : 77
    Join date : 2012-06-26
    Location : Junkyard Porto-John

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by BIG TIME MASTER on Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:35 pm

    And honor didn't end hundreds of years ago in Japan, btw.

    avatar
    Seignar
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1206
    Reputation : 106
    Join date : 2012-08-07

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by Seignar on Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:38 pm

    Well, actually. Dark Souls PVP dueling isn't a war. It is an organized event, you know, like boxing or fencing and such? Where they have rules? Not war were we have a serious problem that puts lives at stake.

    As far as disorganized PVP goes, I'm alright with them pulling out anything there heart desires, for I know most of the counters; which would be counter/punish BS, parry or partial parry. Now, what I do hate is when they dare gank on you when I am the host, because it shows clear intentions of no ganking and just 1vs1, then they go out and run away and wait for a partner. Gets on my nerves but it is...fair game.


    Zetsabre
    Newbie
    Newbie

    Posts : 30
    Reputation : -3
    Join date : 2012-04-14

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by Zetsabre on Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:39 pm

    BIG TIME MASTER wrote:And honor didn't end hundreds of years ago in Japan, btw.

    I had "The Last Samurai" in my mind when writing this thread.

    IV_Mark_VI
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1721
    Reputation : 52
    Join date : 2012-07-30

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:54 pm

    lol after I got ganked in the forest by some Japanese players, I asked them where Japanese Honour went. They said it ended with Hiroshima.


    _________________
    XBox Gamertag: VI Mark IV
    PSN: VI_Mark_IV
    avatar
    skarekrow13
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 10236
    Reputation : 410
    Join date : 2012-01-27
    Location : Ralph Wilson Stadium

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:55 pm

    I actually agree with the comparison to war. We're all agreeing to play the game sure but there's no sign off on rules when you log in. Also, the entire combat mechanic is based off of invading the person. In most cases this is completely without prior knowledge. So basically sneak attacks. Even if you're hosting to deliberately get fights there's no guarantee who will show up so again, sneak attacks. In short, it's all based off of random fights with strangers so if war analogies don't suit you then let's pick bar fight/street fight scenario. Is the invader a mugger who brings a gun to a knife fight? Could be. It's not fair but what's to stop him? (Hint: Your knife). Or you could end up in a fight with someone who plays nice, doesn't hit below the belt, doesn't bite and give you lockjaw, doesn't pull hair etc. Point being.....you don't know what they'll do until the fight is over. That's why I've gone on record as saying if it's in the game it's fair. Can certain tactics make the game less enjoyable for others? Absolutely and because of that there's no reason not to vent a little and offer solutions because even though war/street fight comparisons work it is a game and we should all try to have as much fun as possible.


    By the way, summoning an agreed upon party (RSS for example) and a person complaining when the agreed upon rules are broken is encouraged. That is entirely different

    Also, while I support others' rights to gank and backstab me and dragon head glitch to their hearts content I reserve my right to laugh when six or seven trees **** slap them to hell......


    IV_Mark_VI
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1721
    Reputation : 52
    Join date : 2012-07-30

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:59 pm

    Agree with the red soapstone. I hate getting invaded by some Wraith that then complains if I disconnect. I only do this when I'm weak and I feel they're a troll (invading in say, the Depths). Who has anything but a +6/7 weapon at that point besides BB glitchers? It's a totally outmatched fight. I don't see any trouble disconnecting instead of handing them an easy win.

    They could easily use a red soapstone.


    _________________
    XBox Gamertag: VI Mark IV
    PSN: VI_Mark_IV
    avatar
    reim0027
    Moderator
    Moderator

    Posts : 6715
    Reputation : 381
    Join date : 2012-01-28

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:05 pm

    Zet, your comment on the Middle East was out of line, and borderline "racist". I hear your point, but your example was poor.


    _________________


    PSN usernames: reim0027_2,   reim0027_3,  and reim0027_5.  Skype ID: reim0027  
    Tour of Lordran Soul Levels  //  Official Wiki Fight Club // Forest Invasion Soul Levels // Low Level Invasion Rules
    avatar
    Specter737
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 145
    Reputation : 7
    Join date : 2012-01-19
    Location : The Abyss

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by Specter737 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:23 pm

    I get pissed off listening to people whine about cheap players too, but comparing pvp to actual war just doesn't work.

    That and glorifying cheap tactics simply because they can pass as tactics at all just doesn't seem like a viable way to rationalize them.


    _________________
    Check out my topic "Specter's Black Armory"!
    Get geared up!

    avatar
    skarekrow13
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 10236
    Reputation : 410
    Join date : 2012-01-27
    Location : Ralph Wilson Stadium

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:16 pm

    To be fair I should have clarified that the gravity is in no way comparable. I should have explained that the philosophy is the same. As in "there's only two things, those you can do and those you can't." Any code is a construct of the individual. I'm ok if someone wants an honor bound duel but similarly won't hold it against someone who isn't compelled to be honorable. First rule of any combat (even digital) is that if it can be done expect it to be done.


    Edit: should finish the logic....
    If it can be done > expect it
    If it's expected > it's part of the game/fight/interaction
    If it's part of the game > it's within the rules of the game
    If it's part of the rules > it's fair

    Going back to a duel: the "expectation" stage is modified therefore changing the rest. Also, this is my personal philosophy and I only posted again to clarify a poorly worded point not sway anyone. This its my code, a construct of this individual


    Last edited by skarekrow13 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total


    User
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 5753
    Reputation : 193
    Join date : 2012-01-18

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by User on Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:19 pm

    Honour includes using Emit Force instead of Wrath of God or regular Force, as you emit a force strong enough that both can share in their own way...

    Also, ladies must alwaysgo first in everything... have fun how to decide if she will lose or die first, its a no good end scenario for ya pal.
    avatar
    Lancelot
    Obsessed
    Obsessed

    Posts : 335
    Reputation : 12
    Join date : 2012-02-25
    Location : America

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by Lancelot on Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:14 pm

    TWoP on a DWGR-er is kind of harsh.

    Plus, lagstab is not a tactic.


    _________________

    PSN: iMugBabies
    avatar
    Opedak
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 119
    Reputation : 1
    Join date : 2012-03-13

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by Opedak on Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:38 pm

    In my opinion, honor is silly in this game, most of the time it has no place

    But, courtesy does, and people mix the two up all the time. I couln't care less about honor, but being just being a jerk about it is mean. We're all here, playing this game, yeah, you killed that guy, but sending him hatemail, or doing the look skyward gesture after the fight is just plain rude.

    And thats the real problem with the gankers, its like those guys in FPS games that shoot their teams vehicles with rockets.

    Honor has nothing to do with it, and I wish people would stop using that word >.>
    avatar
    DoughGuy
    Duke's Archivist
    Duke's Archivist

    Posts : 11862
    Reputation : 319
    Join date : 2012-02-29
    Age : 23
    Location : The Bakery of Souls, Sydney

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:41 pm

    Opedak wrote:In my opinion, honor is silly in this game, most of the time it has no place

    But, courtesy does, and people mix the two up all the time. I couln't care less about honor, but being just being a jerk about it is mean. We're all here, playing this game, yeah, you killed that guy, but sending him hatemail, or doing the look skyward gesture after the fight is just plain rude.

    And thats the real problem with the gankers, its like those guys in FPS games that shoot their teams vehicles with rockets.

    Honor has nothing to do with it, and I wish people would stop using that word >.>
    Its a word that has been used so much that its taken on a new meaning. You cant stop the use because now it has a new use.


    _________________
    There's more to them - Want to know why your favourite NPC is in lordran? Find out here.
    Farewell to my Noble Knights, while we lived we were mighty. May we meet again in the next game.
    The post that started the legend XD

    User
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 5753
    Reputation : 193
    Join date : 2012-01-18

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by User on Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:42 pm

    I just say we should burn everything... light it on fire and enjoy the cooked meat on a cold, dayless morning.
    avatar
    Lancelot
    Obsessed
    Obsessed

    Posts : 335
    Reputation : 12
    Join date : 2012-02-25
    Location : America

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by Lancelot on Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:46 pm

    Your name makes me not want to eat anything you make.


    _________________

    PSN: iMugBabies
    avatar
    Opedak
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 119
    Reputation : 1
    Join date : 2012-03-13

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by Opedak on Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:49 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:
    Opedak wrote:In my opinion, honor is silly in this game, most of the time it has no place

    But, courtesy does, and people mix the two up all the time. I couln't care less about honor, but being just being a jerk about it is mean. We're all here, playing this game, yeah, you killed that guy, but sending him hatemail, or doing the look skyward gesture after the fight is just plain rude.

    And thats the real problem with the gankers, its like those guys in FPS games that shoot their teams vehicles with rockets.

    Honor has nothing to do with it, and I wish people would stop using that word >.>
    Its a word that has been used so much that its taken on a new meaning. You cant stop the use because now it has a new use.

    I hate words like that

    Lets just burn everything. Restart and what not

    User
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 5753
    Reputation : 193
    Join date : 2012-01-18

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by User on Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:52 pm

    Restart? Who said anything about restarting?

    lol
    avatar
    mrbeckham87
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 174
    Reputation : 7
    Join date : 2012-06-08
    Age : 30
    Location : Orlando, FL

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by mrbeckham87 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:56 pm

    Zetsabre wrote:This is not a rant.

    I see threads, people complaining about honor. Like the title says, that ended hundreds of years ago. So for those who complain about cheap moves while dueling, they are not being dishonorable, they are using tactics.

    I don't follow any fighting convention, I simply use what is necessary in the fight.
    If I see you flipping all fight with DWGR, I'll use my TWoP.
    If I see you ganging on me with allies, I'll use WotG.
    If I see you flasking, I'll use humanity.

    Above seems to be a one-sided cause and effect situation. So if we were to reverse it, it may seem like cheap tactics. Using TWoP and fish a backstab, TWoP + WotG combo, using humanity to heal yourself.

    However, all of this can be countered. So going back to my original discussion, you should not be complaining, whining, ranting, and crying whenever someone uses a gameplay tool to wreck you. Just means they were using a better combination of tactics.

    Lag backstabs sucks, it's not a broken mechanic, just the limitation of networking around the world.

    If the Laws of War cannot be applied throughout our real world, then the virtual world shouldn't have to also. If you don't believe me, go to the middle east and ask them to fight fair. See what response you get.

    -1 for you.


    _________________
    PSN- Mr_beckham87
    avatar
    Azran
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 965
    Reputation : 52
    Join date : 2012-04-25

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by Azran on Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:00 pm

    "Laws of War"? When did wars have any rules.

    Chain backstabbing provoked by lag ARE a faulty mechanic. Crappy netcode IS a crappy mechanic.


    Also, I felt it was relevant to the title, not the rant:

    "Honor is the reason why there are so many bodies buried under the ground."
    - Brunner, the Bounty Hunter.


    _________________
    PSN: Azran-

    Proper story’s supposed to start at the beginning. Ain’t so simple with this one. Now here’s a kid whose whole world got all twisted, leaving him stranded on a rock in the sky.
    avatar
    mrbeckham87
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 174
    Reputation : 7
    Join date : 2012-06-08
    Age : 30
    Location : Orlando, FL

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by mrbeckham87 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:06 pm

    I'm tired of these threads.


    _________________
    PSN- Mr_beckham87
    avatar
    Bloodios
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 246
    Reputation : 12
    Join date : 2012-07-22

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by Bloodios on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:26 am

    I don't think there is anything wrong with utilizing whatever lying around, even ganking, to ensure one's victory. After all, the mechanics are all there, and both sides should be well aware of how to confront or avoid it. However, this only applies to people who have done everything legitimately. Glitchers, on the other hand, is a different story, but then again, it's pretty much common sense that anything involving glitching is often abhorred by the community. Sure, glitch-utilizing-griefers are now all over the place, and things have been going down the hill, but you can always choose avoid these guys. If you are unfortunate enough to get killed by them, well, shame on them. Let the shallow scumbags enjoy their meaningless victory however they like but don't get too hung up on it and move on. If that doesn't work out for you then send a report to Namco Bandai about the issue. I mean, let's be realistic, at this point, making these kind of threads in this forum is simply crying over spilled milk, and isn't going to improve the situation in anyway.
    avatar
    philtitan
    Casual
    Casual

    Posts : 52
    Reputation : 3
    Join date : 2012-08-09
    Location : Syrup City

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by philtitan on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:33 am

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yukio_Mishima

    You could always Seppuku if the world is too removed from your vision of it.

    Taking a broadcast station hostage and killing yourself and having your lover as your second?






















    Samurai.


    _________________
    A machete attack will give you a splitting headache...
    avatar
    WhatDoesThePendantDo?
    Duke's Archivist
    Duke's Archivist

    Posts : 11501
    Reputation : 327
    Join date : 2012-04-18
    Age : 28
    Location : WPB, Florida

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:47 am

    I fight honorably because that's how I play, and it is how I will continue to play.

    I view dishonorable PvP in a very negative light, if I can fight fairly so can everyone else. Why would you choose to be an underhanded warrior, when, simply following an understood protocol of proper human behavior gives you full opportunity to fight against your fellow man in a respectful manner?

    This is a video game - it's not life and death. You are playing from the comfort of your living room couch, circumstances totally allow you to be a tough, but fair fighter. This is not akin to having your plane crash land on an incommunicable mountain peak in the Himalayas. In this situation, where you are fending for your life you might have to sacrifice your morals and eat the finger of one your former friends who has frozen to death in order to ward off starvation. It is a life and death proposition, here, honor and morality will do nothing for you but get you killed faster. But in Dark Souls, or in any video game, you are completely safe. So you lose a match - what happens? You respawn at the last bonfire you rested at and you go on playing. Sure you may have lost a fight but at least you didn't lower yourself to the level of those who revel in sucking the fun out off another player's gaming experience, which, is apparently the definition of "fun" to some people...

    You may have lost, but, in the grand scheme of things, you've won something much greater.


    Sponsored content

    Re: Honor Ended Back in the Samurai Era

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:47 pm