Fast Rolling in Havel's

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    omega Elf
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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by omega Elf on Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:29 pm

    Federally wrote:Yeah cus saving 18 points in endurance is nothing.

    **** I fed the troll!

    You are arguing that the dwgr is better than Havel's Ring, I'm glad
    to see, we actually agree on something.
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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by Federally on Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:40 pm

    Hoods look really good on heavy armors. Thief mask, hollows thief, wanderer


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by Federally on Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:41 pm

    omega Elf wrote:
    Federally wrote:Yeah cus saving 18 points in endurance is nothing.

    **** I fed the troll!

    You are arguing that the dwgr is better than Havel's Ring, I'm glad
    to see, we actually agree on something.

    I'm arguing that you're a **** and that I wish the mods on this forum actually policed it


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by omega Elf on Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:43 pm

    Federally wrote:
    omega Elf wrote:
    Federally wrote:Yeah cus saving 18 points in endurance is nothing.

    **** I fed the troll!

    You are arguing that the dwgr is better than Havel's Ring, I'm glad
    to see, we actually agree on something.

    I'm arguing that you're a **** and that I wish the mods on this forum actually policed it

    Flamer! where is a mod when you need one!
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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:07 pm

    VeranoChico, the gold hemmed hood looks amazing with the set. So well in fact it almost looks like it's meant for it. I patrolled with that in PvE for awhile when I wanted to tank things. Aesthetically speaking I absolutely hate the look of Havel's helm (though begrudgingly accept it's design elements as well thought out).

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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by VeranoChico on Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:15 pm

    skarekrow13 wrote:VeranoChico, the gold hemmed hood looks amazing with the set. So well in fact it almost looks like it's meant for it. I patrolled with that in PvE for awhile when I wanted to tank things. Aesthetically speaking I absolutely hate the look of Havel's helm (though begrudgingly accept it's design elements as well thought out).

    Ahh thank you very much. So I got it revised.
    http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=4016242065842686

    And this is what it came to. 40 vit as Federally suggested, but instead I have 10 attunement for power within. I found having 20 dex wasn't too spectacular, settling for 18 still leaves a wide array of weapons to use.

    If I don't personally find the hood appealing then I'll simply find a different hood or mask.


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:17 pm

    Now, as for the other conversation going on here......

    Omega, I actually agree with you in that the DWGR is not "broken" but primarily because I doubt perfect balance is ever achievable and don't see a problem with there being "best in class" items. It's arguably (notice I said arguably, not definite) the best ring but I don't define it as broken. HOWEVER.....from the pattern of comments here and elsewhere I haven't seen a single piece of new information or opinion on the subject in God knows how long (Probably October). With that in mind, it appears you are continuing an argument in which you know the opinions of the other party already. That's perfectly fine. I haven't seen anyone change their opinion either though so I don't see a reason to continue the argument since proselytizing appears useless in this topic and in addition to the opinions of other parties being known, the mostly negative reaction you receive should also be well known at this point. As such, it does appear to me that you are seeking said negative reaction.


    Everyone else: Like I just said, I have yet to see one person swayed in this argument to either side despite all the discussion. You're not going to change Omega's opinion so the term "double edged sword" seems apt here. I understand completely why the term "troll" has been tossed around but remember that a) it's against forum rules meaning it's not any better than a person trolling and b) it's the exact reaction sought by what you're accusing and only going to repeat the cycle.

    So.....If any of you feel like typing gibberish with possibly little relation to the real world and almost certain to effect zero change on anything.....come visit the Archives where at least the meanderings are lighthearted.

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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:19 pm

    Fed's got it right so you'll be fine. Any of the masks/hoods look great with heavy armor. I thought about cutting weight on my dueling toon by using a hood and they all fit nicely without a ton of poise reduction (I won't dare swap gloves out......shudder, shudder).

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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by dancash1808 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:44 pm

    Oh man. basically havels is not OP and cannot be considered as such In my opinion because for a fastroller the DWGR provides double the benefit
    (25%*1.5 = 37.5% vs 50% so you have a 12.5% increase and a 25% increase)
    the two builds you used omega are poor examples since they do not need those points for very much (vit at those levels is damn near pointless)
    I was going to do some example builds but anyone who has played with the calculators already knows how it goes so I didnt bother.
    As for if DWGR didnt exsist would havels be OP... I dont think so. I think it stacks up pretty decently against the RTSR, Wolf ring, clorainthry (sp?) ring
    and is a bit edged out by the RoFaP. however there are quite a few rings in this game which are underpowered for PvP (blue tearstone ring... really? or tiny being ring too now that I think of it lol! )


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:52 pm

    If we don't get back on topic, this thread is getting locked.

    Verano, I like your most recent stats (as far as a more viable PvP build). However, it does lose the coolness of fast rolling (not flipping) in Havel's.


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by VeranoChico on Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:58 pm

    reim0027 wrote:If we don't get back on topic, this thread is getting locked.

    Verano, I like your most recent stats (as far as a more viable PvP build). However, it does lose the coolness of fast rolling (not flipping) in Havel's.

    I'm starting to like recent change up. Because all it takes to roll in full havel's again is to remove my shield. That's it.

    That being said, thank you Federally and skarekrow13 for the advice!


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:05 pm

    That's a good point. Fast rolling would be more menacing/cool the more of the set you have on. The shield is out obviously but the helm fits your original idea best. I suppose with that in mind maybe I would recommend something like this


    EDIT: No problem. I don't usually do build threads but this was a really good idea.
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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by dancash1808 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:08 pm

    Pfft. I think havels should get damage like the armor of thorns when fastrolling with it. I mean its equivalent to being hit with a minivan xD
    cool build though silly not really much I can contribute xD


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by omega Elf on Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:31 pm

    dancash1808 wrote:havels is not OP and cannot be considered as such In my opinion because for a fastroller the DWGR provides double the benefit

    I agree, the dwgr is more optimized, in terms of equip burden;
    Though, in the example I provided, it proved, no added benefit.
    The argument, most often seen, against the dwgr, is players
    dislike, to flipping-tanks, stacking poise, and cartwheeling
    around, in heavy armors, looking ridiculous.

    How, is it any less, ridiculous, seeing these same builds, but
    fast-rolling. To me, a full Havels, fast-roller, is in no way,
    different. You expect, builds like that, to fat-roll, or at best -
    mid-roll. Whether, that be, at sl 140, or sl 120, I really
    don't see, it makes a difference.
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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:46 pm

    Last chance. If you guys want to talk about the merits/drawbacks of the individual rings, we have dozens of threads discussing them. Take the discussion over there, please.


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:03 pm

    Dan....lol.....how is getting hit by a human sized/shaped boulder like getting hit with a minivan?

    Oh right.....inertia. Great comparison happy

    Maybe there should be a Looney Tunes "pancaked victim" animation for it.

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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by omega Elf on Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:11 pm

    VeranoChico wrote:http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=4277047222561887

    What is your opinion of a player fast rolling in full Havel's instead of cartwheeling?

    Equally bad or...?

    Equally bad. If you want to fast-roll, then, you should not wear,
    heavy armors. Stacking poise, defense, and equip load, whilst
    maintaining, maximum mobility, is clearly, taking advantage, of a
    broken mechanic. Not to mention - it looks ridiculous.
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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by Federally on Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:00 pm

    dancash1808 wrote:Pfft. I think havels should get damage like the armor of thorns when fastrolling with it. I mean its equivalent to being hit with a minivan xD
    cool build though silly not really much I can contribute xD

    It doesn't need damage, just a stun like Force lol.


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by lextune on Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:00 pm

    I have had a fast rolling Havel build for ages.

    He hosts in Anor and destroys.

    http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=3181368242794681


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by ImperatorMortis on Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:32 pm

    I came into this thread expecting DWGR instead I got something awesome. I'd love to see your character in action OP.
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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by lordgodofhell on Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:33 am


    God this thread is f*ckin hilarious!
    lol!

    Despite its purpose being served in the first 2 pages, I must say you guys did a bang up job with this one lol

    On topic, fast rolling in Havels while sacrificing HP is clearly a CHALLENGE build. Everyone trying to optimize it is just laughable due to the fact it was never intended to be optimal. I say go ahead with the build, bravo.


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by Rifter7 on Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:46 am



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