Fast Rolling in Havel's

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    VeranoChico
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    Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by VeranoChico on Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:05 am

    http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=4277047222561887

    What is your opinion of a player fast rolling in full Havel's instead of cartwheeling?

    Equally bad or...?
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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:07 am

    You know what, even though its a mobile tank with good speed and elemental weapons, the fact you have 99 end is just too funny for me to dislike it. You made me laugh when I saw it, good work.


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by VeranoChico on Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:18 am

    If that is the case then. I'll be using it for my build.


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by Knight Alundil on Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:19 am

    Seems like ridiculous endurance is the only way to go with a pvp Havel sad

    OT: Mate I like it, if you can pvp well with that build then to for it! Seems pretty honourable to me!

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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by Federally on Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:20 am

    There is nothing wrong with fast rolling in anything. Fast rolling requires a stat investment, thus a sacrifice. That is fair. The DWGR is the give nothing, and get a whole lot in return solution, which is one of the reasons people don't like it.


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by VeranoChico on Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:38 am

    Well thank you guys a bunch for the input. I have been playing with either low-poise or zero poise builds lately so I decided to do something quite different. I also have never really used elemental equipment besides the lightning spear.


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by Shkar on Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:42 am

    Out of curiosity, why is the shield in the right hand? You could easily swap it and the bow and use the shield to block. Doesn't the regular attack actually attack when the shield is in your right hand?


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by VeranoChico on Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:51 am

    Oh sorry that is my fault, I mistakenly took the top half of the weapon slots to be right handed and the bottom half to be left handed.


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by Shkar on Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:57 am

    VeranoChico wrote:Oh sorry that is my fault, I mistakenly took the top half of the weapon slots to be right handed and the bottom half to be left handed.

    Ah, that makes sense. It just threw me for a loop when I saw it, since there is no actual option for lefties happy


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by BackwardsBaboon on Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:31 am

    It is now official: I have seen it all!


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by Jansports on Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:59 am

    You gave up 627 health to fast roll in havel's. I don't think I've ever seen Full Havel's fast roll. I wonder what it looks like.

    It's fundamentally no different than a vit gouged elemental, only you gouged END to have better defence rather than HP.

    I think it's interesting, I wonder what other loadouts someone could get away with at 99 END
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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by Federally on Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:08 am

    How about this there is no need for the extra poise from the head. So dump it for something light for more HP. If you're not opposed to the masks MoM will give you 1800+ HP.


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by Jansports on Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:42 am

    with MoM he can drop to 85end and still fast, meaning 1900hp is possible.
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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by omega Elf on Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:54 am

    http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=3140071322635705

    Fast-rolling giant-moms - Ridiculous. Havel's Ring is very clearly
    OP. It's the "easy mode" ring. Without Havel's Ring, you could
    not get this set-up (and fast-roll), not even with 99 in endurance,
    though, with it, you require, very little, stat investment.

    If you want to fast-roll, with all the benefits, which that provides -
    then you should NOT, also, be able, to get maximum defense &
    massive poise.

    When I go fast-roll, i wear only robes, with very little (if any) poise.
    This is the way, I believe, the game, was designed to be played.
    If you want to be a tank build, then, really, you should use mid-roll
    or fat-roll.

    Though, if you want to fight, using this "crutch", then by all means
    do. Does, it make you, a better, more skilled, player than me?,
    that's for you to decide. I just feel, it takes out, all of the challenge
    from the game.
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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:00 am

    omega Elf wrote:http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=3140071322635705

    Fast-rolling giant-moms - Ridiculous. Havel's Ring is very clearly
    OP. It's the "easy mode" ring.
    Without Havel's Ring, you could
    not get this set-up (and fast-roll), not even with 99 in endurance,
    though, with it, you require, very little, stat investment.

    If you want to fast-roll, with all the benefits, which that provides -
    then you should NOT, also, be able, to get maximum defense &
    massive poise.

    When I go fast-roll, i wear only robes, with very little (if any) poise.
    This is the way, I believe, the game, was designed to be played.
    If you want to be a tank build, then, really, you should use mid-roll
    or fat-roll.

    Though, if you want to fight, using this "crutch", then by all means
    do. Does, it make you, a better, more skilled, player than me?,
    that's for you to decide. I just feel, it takes out, all of the challenge
    from the game.
    Wow, just wow. No it only requires 99, or in your case 58, in a single stats compared to 50 or 60, or in your case http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=4000467305636761, with the DWGR.


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by omega Elf on Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:07 am

    DoughGuy wrote:
    omega Elf wrote:http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=3140071322635705

    Fast-rolling giant-moms - Ridiculous. Havel's Ring is very clearly
    OP. It's the "easy mode" ring.
    Without Havel's Ring, you could
    not get this set-up (and fast-roll), not even with 99 in endurance,
    though, with it, you require, very little, stat investment.

    If you want to fast-roll, with all the benefits, which that provides -
    then you should NOT, also, be able, to get maximum defense &
    massive poise.

    When I go fast-roll, i wear only robes, with very little (if any) poise.
    This is the way, I believe, the game, was designed to be played.
    If you want to be a tank build, then, really, you should use mid-roll
    or fat-roll.

    Though, if you want to fight, using this "crutch", then by all means
    do. Does, it make you, a better, more skilled, player than me?,
    that's for you to decide. I just feel, it takes out, all of the challenge
    from the game.
    Wow, just wow. No it only requires 99, or in your case 58, in a single stats compared to 50 or 60, or in your case http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=4000467305636761, with the DWGR.

    Whether or not, the dwgr, is slightly better, is beside the point.
    If the dwgr was to be nerfed, the fact remains, Havels ring, is
    very clearly OP.
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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by Federally on Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:55 am

    omega Elf wrote:http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=3140071322635705

    Fast-rolling giant-moms - Ridiculous. Havel's Ring is very clearly
    OP. It's the "easy mode" ring. Without Havel's Ring, you could
    not get this set-up (and fast-roll), not even with 99 in endurance,
    though, with it, you require, very little, stat investment.

    If you want to fast-roll, with all the benefits, which that provides -
    then you should NOT, also, be able, to get maximum defense &
    massive poise.

    When I go fast-roll, i wear only robes, with very little (if any) poise.
    This is the way, I believe, the game, was designed to be played.
    If you want to be a tank build, then, really, you should use mid-roll
    or fat-roll.

    Though, if you want to fight, using this "crutch", then by all means
    do. Does, it make you, a better, more skilled, player than me?,
    that's for you to decide. I just feel, it takes out, all of the challenge
    from the game.

    Beware the troll.


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by omega Elf on Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:11 am

    Federally wrote:Beware the troll.

    All of the convincing arguments, put forth to me, regarding the dwgr,
    have merely, effected my opinion, on these matters!
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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by Federally on Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:17 am

    omega Elf wrote:
    Federally wrote:Beware the troll.

    All of the convincing arguments, put forth to me, regarding the dwgr,
    have merely, effected my opinion, on these matters!

    You're purposefully saying something absurd and controversial to get a negative reaction. Thus



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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by omega Elf on Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:30 am

    Federally wrote:You're purposefully saying something absurd and controversial

    Nothing of what I said, could possibly be considered absurd.
    Controversial maybe. There are players, who simply, cannot
    face facts - not, when it directly effects them, and their ability
    to play. All I'm saying, is, that if, you want to be a tank, then
    move like a tank - fat-roll!; Anything else, just looks plain
    ridiculous.
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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by omega Elf on Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:06 am

    http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=4257812465817797

    Take a look at this build, and tell me, it's not ridiculously op, and
    game-breaking. Using, fast-roll i-frames, and, super-fast roll-speed,
    you can essentially, roll around, like a pig on acid, and, roll-bs anyone.
    And, if you should get caught - poise-tank bs.
    The only counter, I can see, for heavy builds (using heavy armor
    AND weapons), is, for those builds, to equip, the dwgr.


    Last edited by omega Elf on Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by Reaperfan on Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:07 am

    omega Elf wrote:
    Federally wrote:You're purposefully saying something absurd and controversial

    Nothing of what I said, could possibly be considered absurd.
    Controversial maybe. There are players, who simply, cannot
    face facts - not, when it directly effects them, and their ability
    to play. All I'm saying, is, that if, you want to be a tank, then
    move like a tank - fat-roll!; Anything else, just looks plain
    ridiculous.

    It is my belief that Havel's Ring was in fact designed with fat rolling in mind. It was designed to let you be able to invest in offensive points without having to End-gouge yourself just to be able to move. Using a basic Havel cosplay as an analog for a typical "pure tank" build, it takes 55 Endurance just to be able to fat roll. Add in the necessary levels to Strength to be able to weild your shield/weapon, and you're left with very few stats to play around with. With Havel's Ring, it takes only 23 Endurance to fat roll, allowing you to allocate enough Strength points to be able to weild your shield/weapon and still have alot of freedom of where you want to put stats to finish off your build. Even pushing your Endurance to the standard of 40 with Havel's Ring, you are still fat rolling.

    The crippling minimum stat requirement for fat rolling, as well as the fact that you're still fat rolling at the cutoff point for stat returns on Endurance both suggest to me that Havel's was designed, at least in part, with the intent of using it in fat rolling builds. It's only the DWGR that allows Havel's Ring to be abused in any real way.


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by VeranoChico on Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:21 am

    The general idea was that I was to drop my vitality for defense. That way I don't have it too easy. Since my first couple of characters rolled with 30 vitality before, I have no problems with having 1325 HP.


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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by omega Elf on Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:34 am

    VeranoChico wrote:The general idea was that I was to drop my vitality for defense. That way I don't have it too easy. Since my first couple of characters rolled with 30 vitality before, I have no problems with having 1325 HP.

    I appreciate, you've disadvantaged yourself, through low vitality,
    to compensate. What would be, the honorable, vitality cut-off
    point, for using dwgr?


    Last edited by omega Elf on Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Fast Rolling in Havel's

    Post by rywhitty222 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:34 am

    http://tinyurl.com/9s6whkp
    When i saw this i just had to do my own. Man if i saw somebody fast rolling in giants like that i would be calling hacker before now. Its sad but this actually seems viable big grin

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