wrath of the gods nerf?

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    nerf or not

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    nsane32
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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by nsane32 on Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:15 pm

    I just name my toon knight Chesty La Ru and off to battle CHARGE!!!!






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    and yes lag make it very hard to doge anything




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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by Scudman_Slayer on Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:17 pm

    DxV04 wrote:@ scudman.

    Yea I agree that lag will make it more difficult to roll through it or away from it. There is no way to deny that. I still say leave it alone tho.

    thank you for not starting a discussion Proper Bow

    i just really had to let it out because i had that in me for a looong time,now i feel much better now that i've let what i think about it out


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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by aceluby on Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:19 pm

    That's a problem w/ lag, not the spell. I've been hit countless times because of lag, doesn't mean we should get rid of spells, stunlocks and backstabs. Everything is OP when you introduce lag.


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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by Scudman_Slayer on Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:20 pm

    i didn't say that the spell needs to be taken out did i?





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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by Toastfacekillah on Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:23 pm

    @scudman - I'm with you on this. Recently I've seen more and more people geared to wog only and you end up fighting pelayers who don't even bother trying to hit you (I don't include proper mages in this). Crown of dusk w or w/o Power within, 12+ casts and a shield and spam away. Sometimes you can dodge, but with lag you catch a few hits and thats it. Thats just the spammers - Anyone who's in the least bit smart with their wog timing and has enough casts will get you in the end.

    Once again - change the damage range ftw.


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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:27 pm

    if it cast slower it would be useless, too few casts and easy to bs punish, its not hard anyways, no one would ever get it off if it was slower. the power reduction as range increases is the only argument i consider acceptable but i disagree that it needs a nerf and neither do i think the engine is capable of the bloom effects necessary because it wasn't built for them in the first place. and that 'if they're smart about timing they'll get you in the end' can be said about EVERYTHING.


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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by JohnnyHarpoon on Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:34 pm

    I understand the argument, but should something be nerfed because of online lag?

    If that were the case, shouldn't backstabs and ALL spells/miracles/pyro be nerfed?

    The bottom line is, when everything works properly, there is absolutely no problem with it. It's dodgeable, and Jesus has anybody heard of Great Magic Barrier? Or simply having a high magic resistance? I understand people's problems, but if it's really such an issue for you, why not build/equip your character to resist it? Use a Crest Shield for god's sake! Everyone else does already, anyway. There are options, people!


    Last edited by JohnnyHarpoon on Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:36 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by Scudman_Slayer on Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:35 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:if it cast slower it would be useless, too few casts and easy to bs punish, its not hard anyways, no one would ever get it off if it was slower. the power reduction as range increases is the only argument i consider acceptable but i disagree that it needs a nerf and neither do i think the engine is capable of the bloom effects necessary because it wasn't built for them in the first place. and that 'if they're smart about timing they'll get you in the end' can be said about EVERYTHING.

    strange that was the opposite on demon's souls

    it wasn't useless at all even if it was slow as hell

    im not starting a discussion im just saying that from my point of view just the casting time needs to be nerfed

    "if they're smart about timing they'll get you in the end"

    will be the only thing im gonna say

    if someone is smart enough to use a slow casting spell that can save them and turn the tide to their favor

    think about it

    i use lightning spears even knowing they're easy to dodge and pretty slow to throw but however with some thought i can come up with a plan to destroy my enemies with it

    just because one spell is slow doesn't mean it would be completely useless

    again not looking to start a discussion lets leave it at this k?


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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by JohnnyHarpoon on Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:42 pm

    Honestly, I almost prefer when people spam them because then I can watch as they waste a WoTG or two from 20 feet away.


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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by Scudman_Slayer on Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:43 pm

    JohnnyHarpoon wrote:Honestly, I almost prefer when people spam them because then I can watch as they waste a WoTG or two from 20 feet away.

    thats the funny part when you evade it and get away the guy will just be like an idiot spamming it



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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by Toastfacekillah on Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:45 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote: neither do i think the engine is capable of the bloom effects necessary because it wasn't built for them in the first place.

    It might be able to do something - Doesn't Great Fireball have different damage values for a direct hit and being caught in the aoe?


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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by DxV04 on Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:11 pm

    JohnnyHarpoon wrote:

    The bottom line is, when everything works properly, there is absolutely no problem with it. It's dodgeable, and Jesus has anybody heard of Great Magic Barrier? Or simply having a high magic resistance? I understand people's problems, but if it's really such an issue for you, why not build/equip your character to resist it? Use a Crest Shield for god's sake! Everyone else does already, anyway. There are options, people!

    cheers Well said!!!! So for those who want to nerf it, isn't this the solution to your problems?
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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by lucanious on Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:45 pm

    so your saying that i need to be an intelligence build to beat this. well amazing thing, everyone in the game plays as an intelligence build dont they? problem solved. are you retarded? it not unbeatable and its not so bad that it takes no thought at all. but the problem i see with it is that it removes much of the skill involved in online play. yea you can avoid it, try rolling away at a 25-50% equip burden without the ninja wood grain ring. eventually the person avoiding the spell will make a mistake and if they dont then they are the 1% and i personally dont think that people should be rewarded by taking the easy way out. since people wont use the spell as it was meant to be used, i think it should be altered in some way to make it less of an over powered spamm fest. whether thats making the cool down of the spell adequate enough to roll away from the attacker or if slowing the attack speed of it works. whichever way, its become too easy to kill people with this in pvp. lag contributes but is only an outlying issue
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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by DxV04 on Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:49 pm

    errmmmm you don't need high int to use great magic barrier or to equip high magic defenses. The crest shield is a start of game equipment so you can get it easily. I think you might be overreacting to the suggestions. He is right if WoG is such a big problem for you then you need to change your equipment to deal with it. I really don't know where you got this idea that you have to be a high int.
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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by ErrJon6661 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:21 am

    Using a shield or armor doesn't stop the spamming.

    A cooldown would be great if you think about it. Same casting time initially, but you can't cast it again for a second or two. Gives the victim a chance to recuperate after the attack. It'd stop spamming and keep the spell usable for pvp.


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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by sids09 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:42 am

    I think in general diminishing returns on consecutive hits of anything would help the entire spamming problem, the stunlock problem, the chain BS problem.... solves a lot of everything actually and forces you not to be a one-trick pony. Something like this:

    Hit 1-2: 100% Effect
    Hit 3: 80% Effect
    Hit 4: 60% Effect
    Hit 5 and up: 40% Effect


    Wouldn't solve every cheap trick in the book, but it wouldn't hurt. Maybe different values and different modifications depending on the situation... BKGA might have consistent damage but the stun-effect decreases with consecutive hits, or I dunno, something. But you me and baby jesus all know that spamming blows, and even a half-effective fix is better than nothing.



    On the brief discussion that happened, here's where I stand: I suck. I know I suck. I have multiple threads describing how much I suck. I have no delusions of not sucking. But I do try to play fair. I don't use cheap tricks, heck, the one time I walked up on an invader spawning by accident, he stunlocked me mid-bow and I apologized to him with the messenger for looking like I was camping. I try to play this game in such a way that people get to have fun, because that's the kind of gamer I am. Now, maybe WoG isn't a problem for you. Maybe you don't suck. Maybe you know how to ruin somebody's day if they're being a **** to you. Wrap your mind around the concept that some of us, whether by lag, by lack of talent, or lack of equipment, or lack of 150 hours poured into upgrade farming -- WHATEVER the case -- some of us can't deal with it. For some of us the game breaks when a spammer walks in and there's not a goddamn thing we can do about it. If it's not a problem for you, at least accept the truth that it's a problem for me.
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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by lucanious on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:12 am

    i agree with you, just because it not an issue for you doesnt mean its not an issue for many others in the community. i dont suck....in fact i win almost all of my matches that are 1v1 and about half when they have a phantom. thats how i know WoG is a little too easy to repeat cast, i think a good fix would be a cooldown as well. just enough time to roll away when you stand, people may know how to punish a spammer but it only takes one hit to suck you into death.
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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by Brokewilly on Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:19 am

    The main defense against WoG is to know your opponent has the miracle and not get caught where you cannot roll away. Usually, I try to bait an opponent into using it so I know he has the capability - you don't want to have it used against you later in the fight when you are low on health. I know you cannot do anything about it if you invade or be suddenly invaded and your opponent is spamming WoGs - just try to get some distance and use the knowlege that your oppenent will use it. When I first started invading - WoG was a real problem for me but over time I have learned to compensate for it. I know its use can be seen as unfair (i.e. spamming) at times but you have to adapt in this game to survive. This game does allow skill and knowledge to overcome most obstacles.

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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by DxV04 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:36 am

    haha no nerf is winning!!! cheers Oh by the way. I don't even use WoG that much. I can't even remember the last time I used it.
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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by ted1023 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:46 am

    It's been said before, WOTG is one of the only really solid working Miracles for offensive and defensive tactics when used properly. Yes it can be avoided just like the B/S if your to close to your opponent you're going to get wrecked. I have learned if you roll/flip backwards there is still a 70% chance it will still damage you, but if you roll/flip to the side 98% of the time I do this I avoid it completely.

    The min I see them change weapons for a talisman or something small I immediately get ready to roll. Now if your close up in their face when you get hit, and if you panic and forget to roll then you'll be stunned and pretty much toast.

    Yes Spamming sucks..lol I have been in the depth where I was trapped in the narrow corridor with some fool charging at me with WOTG…It pissed me off, I just kept flipping and rolling like a ninja on acid, the minute I seen him run out I tagged his a** and collected his soul..lol.. Then sent him a message thanking him for the exercise and the Humanity.


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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by Brokewilly on Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:15 pm

    ted1023 wrote:It's been said before, WOTG is one of the only really solid working Miracles for offensive and defensive tactics when used properly. Yes it can be avoided just like the B/S if your to close to your opponent you're going to get wrecked. I have learned if you roll/flip backwards there is still a 70% chance it will still damage you, but if you roll/flip to the side 98% of the time I do this I avoid it completely.

    The min I see them change weapons for a talisman or something small I immediately get ready to roll. Now if your close up in their face when you get hit, and if you panic and forget to roll then you'll be stunned and pretty much toast.

    Yes Spamming sucks..lol I have been in the depth where I was trapped in the narrow corridor with some fool charging at me with WOTG…It pissed me off, I just kept flipping and rolling like a ninja on acid, the minute I seen him run out I tagged his a** and collected his soul..lol.. Then sent him a message thanking him for the exercise and the Humanity.

    That's what I am talking about - knowledge is power!!! And you are correct about evading WoG - I have learned to kind of roll/flip side-ways around the blast radius - like rolling outside of a ball. I can usually tell my opponent is surprised:shock: that I did not take damage (or alot of damage) when I successfully evade WoG by doing this.

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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by aceluby on Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:55 pm

    lucanious wrote:so your saying that i need to be an intelligence build to beat this. well amazing thing, everyone in the game plays as an intelligence build dont they? problem solved. are you retarded? it not unbeatable and its not so bad that it takes no thought at all. but the problem i see with it is that it removes much of the skill involved in online play. yea you can avoid it, try rolling away at a 25-50% equip burden without the ninja wood grain ring. eventually the person avoiding the spell will make a mistake and if they dont then they are the 1% and i personally dont think that people should be rewarded by taking the easy way out. since people wont use the spell as it was meant to be used, i think it should be altered in some way to make it less of an over powered spamm fest. whether thats making the cool down of the spell adequate enough to roll away from the attacker or if slowing the attack speed of it works. whichever way, its become too easy to kill people with this in pvp. lag contributes but is only an outlying issue

    Magic barrier is a faith spell, so an Int or Fth build has plenty of options. Melee does too as long as they aren't fishing for BS or trying to stunlock.

    What way is the spell meant to be used in your opinion? It's one of a few offensive faith spells. If you're getting beat by it and feel it takes no skill to win with it, maybe it's you who needs to up their skill?

    All these 'this should be nerfed' talk is just taking us down a path to the only viable options left are melee builds. I get that people w/ melee builds want to only fight other melee builds, but that's just not how this game was intended. We all need to learn to deal w/ it.


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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by ErrJon6661 on Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:01 am

    I think what many people feel the intent for the spell was, I'm saying this because this is what I feel, is to be used to fight off crowds or keep enemies off of you. IE someone is trying to backstab you, or you're getting ganged up on. The issue for many comes when it is spammed. In anything but a completely open area you are bound to get hit without godlike timing and reflexes which is nearly impossible with any sort of lag present in the game.


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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by Katakato on Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:24 am

    The only ppl that want WoG nerfed are the ones who don't know how to get around it.

    I love when i get a WoG spammer, it's 90% a kill for me happy


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    Re: wrath of the gods nerf?

    Post by lextune on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:56 am

    How about leaving it alone and just dropping it down to one cast ala Fire Tempest/Firestorm....?


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