Buff not lest ye be buffed

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    To buff or not to buff...

    [ 6 ]
    25% [25%] 
    [ 7 ]
    29% [29%] 
    [ 11 ]
    46% [46%] 

    Total Votes: 24
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    Tristan
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    Re: Buff not lest ye be buffed

    Post by Tristan on Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:55 am

    @Juutas

    My point is that we should make every playing style viable with equal amount of effort by all parties and buffs can help achieve this. My xample illustrates how someone with a mail breaker or a whip would have to perform with more effort than someone with say a katana. Buffs help to alleviate some of the stress that comes from the weapon having limited versatility when compared to other styles. It's not a question of the players performance. It is a question of build types. If someones playstyle incorporates an Indiana Jones style of combat who are you or me to deny someone their right to make that effective. After all it was implemented for the reason of providing unique varieties of combat situations.

    Other points that can be accompanied by this is the "I spent valuable stats on certain attributes to use this skill" and are very important when creating fun combat situations.


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    Re: Buff not lest ye be buffed

    Post by Juutas on Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:33 am

    Umbassa Zealot wrote:@Juutas

    My point is that we should make every playing style viable with equal amount of effort by all parties and buffs can help achieve this. My xample illustrates how someone with a mail breaker or a whip would have to perform with more effort than someone with say a katana. Buffs help to alleviate some of the stress that comes from the weapon having limited versatility when compared to other styles. It's not a question of the players performance. It is a question of build types. If someones playstyle incorporates an Indiana Jones style of combat who are you or me to deny someone their right to make that effective. After all it was implemented for the reason of providing unique varieties of combat situations.

    Other points that can be accompanied by this is the "I spent valuable stats on certain attributes to use this skill" and are very important when creating fun combat situations.

    I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, I never said that. What I said was if you have to use the buff with whatever weapon you are using then you are just not good enough with that weapon to use it unbuffed. If you cannot afford to put 40 dex/str, why not use elemental then?
    I won't blame you for not being good enough with a mail breaker or whip, these weapons seriously suck, but let's get real here, you rarely see anyone buffing or even using these weapons. If I ever see people using these sucky weapons as their main weapons in combat I always give them my respect buffed or not, but that still doesn't change my point on the subject.


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    Jansports
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    Re: Buff not lest ye be buffed

    Post by Jansports on Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:38 pm

    I agree with Dough, if I spent the ~20 some odd levels raising my Int or Fai to a level where I can use one of the buffs I am going to use it.

    @ Juutas you're argument that "if you need to buff you aren't good enough with your weapon" is outright silly. Buffs are a part of the choices players make as they flesh out their stats/build/playstyle. Pretending I don't have 22 extra points in int for CMW would be akin to asking Pyro builds to drop their Dex down far enough to lose ALL of their increased casting speed, which I'm certain they went up to 45 dex specifically for when their weapon only requires 14-20. Perhaps players who invest in more Str to one hand weapons aren't skilled enough to just use them 2h instead.
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    Re: Buff not lest ye be buffed

    Post by OrnsteinBro on Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:27 pm

    Idoloni_Belli wrote:Buffs are funny. They have amazing damage output but if the opponent is just dodging you, you're doing no damage at all... so I say buff all you want, I'll just dodge for that minute or so and then fight you.

    Haha, works with most weapons but you really have to watch out for those running R1s (katana/thrusting swords). Gotta roll when you expect them to use it, any later and half your health bar's gone.


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    Re: Buff not lest ye be buffed

    Post by Ghadis_God on Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:25 pm

    I buff with DMB, with all the points I invested into faith I should be able to without it being called cheap.


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    Re: Buff not lest ye be buffed

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:41 pm

    Buffing is kinda of a tricky one to judge. I really wish that there was a pyromancer weapon buff that was stronger then the resin yet weaker then the other buffs. It would even out the playing field and allow anyone to at least somewhat lvl the playing fields against buff builds.

    I personally cringe when i see people say "well cast great magic barrier" or some other counter that requires you to have a certain type of build. There should be a plausible counter that does not require an investment in a particular stat.

    Actually a toxic weapon buff would be a perfect way to give pyromancers a weapon buff, i think that would be fairly balanced. Have it be as strong as the gravelord swords toxic with a +15 pyro hand and have it be a little bit better with a +5 hand.
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    Re: Buff not lest ye be buffed

    Post by Jansports on Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:41 pm

    FruitPunchNinja wrote:Buffing is kinda of a tricky one to judge. I really wish that there was a pyromancer weapon buff that was stronger then the resin yet weaker then the other buffs. It would even out the playing field and allow anyone to at least somewhat lvl the playing fields against buff builds.

    I personally cringe when i see people say "well cast great magic barrier" or some other counter that requires you to have a certain type of build. There should be a plausible counter that does not require an investment in a particular stat.

    Actually a toxic weapon buff would be a perfect way to give pyromancers a weapon buff, i think that would be fairly balanced. Have it be as strong as the gravelord swords toxic with a +15 pyro hand and have it be a little bit better with a +5 hand.

    wait it out, kite them, roll roll roll roll. no more buff! avaliable to everyone
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    Re: Buff not lest ye be buffed

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:58 pm

    Yea thats true, but in areas like the burg that tactic can not only be pretty difficult but it is also just annoying. That is actually what i do for the most part, sometimes they get sick of it and switch their weapons to turn off the buff. When i duel and i see that someone is going to buff i charge them, whether they bow or not. Way i look at it is, once you go to buff you have initiated the duel. I honestly mainly just hate the people who got to sl225+ and do nothing but host in areas where 120 is the average player level. I sometimes refuse to fight those people, they get the advantage of everything with no downsides. Its a challenge, but its very one sided. I will often whip out the hornets ring on those players, and of course get plenty of hate mail for it xD
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    Re: Buff not lest ye be buffed

    Post by Juutas on Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:12 am

    Jansports wrote:
    FruitPunchNinja wrote:Buffing is kinda of a tricky one to judge. I really wish that there was a pyromancer weapon buff that was stronger then the resin yet weaker then the other buffs. It would even out the playing field and allow anyone to at least somewhat lvl the playing fields against buff builds.

    I personally cringe when i see people say "well cast great magic barrier" or some other counter that requires you to have a certain type of build. There should be a plausible counter that does not require an investment in a particular stat.

    Actually a toxic weapon buff would be a perfect way to give pyromancers a weapon buff, i think that would be fairly balanced. Have it be as strong as the gravelord swords toxic with a +15 pyro hand and have it be a little bit better with a +5 hand.

    wait it out, kite them, roll roll roll roll. no more buff! avaliable to everyone

    This option is only limited to players with fastroll or ninjaflip and even if you're able to do it this still makes a fight boring and dull just escaping and flipping away. Quite frankly the most annoying thing about the buffers is not even the buffed weapon or that it makes the fight retarted, but the attitude of most buffers I have encountered: "YOU ATTACK ME WHILE I BUFF WHY YOU NO LET ME BUFF!!!??" I rarely attack people when they buff but when I have I get messages like this.
    I still think that if you need few hundred extra dmg to your weapon you're a bit tryhard. You may think my opinion is silly, but it stays. There are elemental weapons for those who don't have the stats to scale.
    As I said I'm not against buffing and I don't mind if you need it, but even on my faith build I didn't need the buff and only used divine weapons or occult weapons.


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    Re: Buff not lest ye be buffed

    Post by Jansports on Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:34 am

    Of course I'm tryhard. I'm the MOST tryhard. I want to win every fight I get in. Every. Single. One. If I'm on my 40dex 30fai BSS weilding dudette yeah I SLB that Baller and try to get as many leo ringed R2s as I can. Some fights I lose despite the buff, some I win without taking any real damage and the buff was overkill. Some I just barely come out ahead and feel thrilled and pumped full of adrenaline because it was so close.
    Boring and Dull to me is a fight where Neither party considers what the other has done / is doing. I love when people turn and gun it away from me when they see CMW on my MSGS, they *know* how much potential that thing has for damage and their response I feel is appropriate, of course I chase em down best I can. This fight just became serious, it's clear we both want to fight on our own advantageous terms and now we have to try to out-think and out-play one another to make it happen.

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