Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

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    Slarg232
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    Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by Slarg232 on Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:33 am

    Is it truely bad form to heal in the middle of a fight? I'm just wondering, because if someone (You or Him) can create enough space between the two of you to be able to pop a humanity/estus flask, doesn't he deserve the heal?

    Yes, it prolongs the fight, but I don't see how that's necessarily a bad thing. Can someone explain this to me?



    Edit: Thanks to all the answers everyone big grin

    Quick question for anyone new to the thread; is Replenishment, cast at the beginning of the battle, considered "Healing" in the traditional "Don't do it" sense for PVP?


    Last edited by Slarg232 on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by Garl_Vinland on Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:40 am

    What way are you going about this? Intended PvP or involuntary?
    What I recommend for Intended is only heal if your opponent does first, for honors sake and for involuntary I.E. You don't want to be fighting this person and you just want to survive, pull out all the stops to prolong your life and end theirs.

    That's just me though, not going by an official guide for this one.

    Also, you mean healing at an appropriate time right? Not just popping down est while being stabbed?


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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:41 am

    Its prolongs the fight to absurdity when both players have 99 humanity, not really fun anymore, just irritating.

    Oddly enough, I have the opposite opinion about healing in demons souls.


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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by Heroez Blade on Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:49 am

    The way i was told it is dishonorable to heal at any point in pvp. I use to do it a lot but people started complaining about it. I dont see a problem with it but if you and an invader bow before the fight than you should fight with honor and take the loss if he is better, but if he heals first than you do the same.

    If you are talking about fighting a boss in the game than it is 100% ok to heal while fighting. Some bosses are really hard to beat if you dont heal.


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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by Slarg232 on Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:53 am

    Garl_Vinland wrote:What way are you going about this? Intended PvP or involuntary?
    What I recommend for Intended is only heal if your opponent does first, for honors sake and for involuntary I.E. You don't want to be fighting this person and you just want to survive, pull out all the stops to prolong your life and end theirs.

    That's just me though, not going by an official guide for this one.

    Also, you mean healing at an appropriate time right? Not just popping down est while being stabbed?



    Both, honestly. And Yes, I mean an appropriate time, for instance, if your opponent is running back, you back up and pop a flask. Also, I'm not advocating, nore planning, nore anything, of doing this at any sort of Kiln Fight.



    @ Forum Pirate: Couldn't that just be seen as an attempt to get a psychological edge?



    I don't know. I've beaten this game twice and am trying to get into the PVP scene.
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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:02 pm

    It could, but its not fun anymore so I just chain stab or bc because I'm not dealing with it. In random invasions, do whatever it takes, but because there isn't a good way to interrupt healing, except back stabs, like there was in demons I refuse to heal with items unless they heal first, and I switch from playing "dirty" while generally not mean spirited, to down right vicious. There are several inescapable garunteed kill combos I use again people who heal in duels.


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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by Ghadis_God on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:16 pm

    It really is bad to heal in duels. It seems like a natural part of the game from PvE, but you wouldn't see it in any other 1 on 1 combat game. Why exactly would being able to back away from the opponent make you somehow deserving of a heal anyway? Last time I checked, being super aggressive and keeping close to your opponent gets you bs'd and parried in PvP, it's not a great strategy. Just because the opponent doesn't spend every second of the fight attacking you doesn't give you the right to heal.


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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by Garl_Vinland on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:26 pm


    Since you've beaten the game twice, you know that it is about learning with experience. Keep at your current fighting style and if it doesn't work out, change it up. This is really all about you as a player, healing, not healing, CBSing or not, etc. You are allowed to do your own thing, make your own decisions, we're just here to help. We don't dictate your actions.


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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by WyrmHero on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:30 pm

    Ok if we both bow and we are having a fun duel then you shouldn't heal with humanity nor estus. I would accept the healing miracles because they are hard to pull off in a fight.

    If I'm invading you and we don't bow nor nothing then you are free to heal you and your phantoms, as well as I'm free to use humanity and viceversa.


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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by Slarg232 on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:36 pm

    Ghadis_God wrote:It really is bad to heal in duels. It seems like a natural part of the game from PvE, but you wouldn't see it in any other 1 on 1 combat game. Why exactly would being able to back away from the opponent make you somehow deserving of a heal anyway? Last time I checked, being super aggressive and keeping close to your opponent gets you bs'd and parried in PvP, it's not a great strategy. Just because the opponent doesn't spend every second of the fight attacking you doesn't give you the right to heal.



    But, and I'm not strawmaning or trolling or anything like that, do I really need a right to heal? If I can pull it off, is that not something I should be able to do?
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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by Slarg232 on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:36 pm

    Garl_Vinland wrote:
    Since you've beaten the game twice, you know that it is about learning with experience. Keep at your current fighting style and if it doesn't work out, change it up. This is really all about you as a player, healing, not healing, CBSing or not, etc. You are allowed to do your own thing, make your own decisions, we're just here to help. We don't dictate your actions.



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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by omega Elf on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:39 pm

    It's a game, if you want to heal then heal. If attaining a victory through constantly healing when your opponent does not, and then gesturing "well?, what is it?!" over their rotting corpse brings you a sense of achievement, and makes you feel good about yourself, then do it (and I'm not being sarcastic by the way).

    Take it to the utter depths; After a while, you'll soon come to realize, how fighting with a sense honor (even dieing), in the end brings the far sweeter victory; This is especially so, if someone is playing like a complete a**hole towards you, using every "cheap" tactic in YOUR book, and you still manage to beat them. Just have the honor to bow to them afterwards.
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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by WyrmHero on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:44 pm

    Those are wise words almost cried. +1


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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by Garl_Vinland on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:49 pm





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    Hey, I'm a Sunbro, I'm supposed to help people right? Praise the Sun Just don't stray too deep in the dark, as a former Darkmoon I may just hunt you down. Anyway, best of luck brother.


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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by Ghadis_God on Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:12 pm

    Slarg232 wrote:
    Ghadis_God wrote:It really is bad to heal in duels. It seems like a natural part of the game from PvE, but you wouldn't see it in any other 1 on 1 combat game. Why exactly would being able to back away from the opponent make you somehow deserving of a heal anyway? Last time I checked, being super aggressive and keeping close to your opponent gets you bs'd and parried in PvP, it's not a great strategy. Just because the opponent doesn't spend every second of the fight attacking you doesn't give you the right to heal.



    But, and I'm not strawmaning or trolling or anything like that, do I really need a right to heal? If I can pull it off, is that not something I should be able to do?
    You could make the same argument for chain bsing or using TWoP or anything else the community deems cheap. There really is no set of definitive guidelines on what "cheap" is, it's not a quantitative assessment, it has to be reached through general consensus, and even then there's a lot of debate. What's cheap for one person may not be cheap for another, so just don't be surprised when you heal mid fight and earn yourself a chain bs. Just live by the golden rule in PvP: If you don't want it done to you, don't do it to the opponent. That's really what honor is, an agreement between you and your opponent on the rules of combat.


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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by Slarg232 on Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:18 pm

    Ghadis_God wrote:
    Slarg232 wrote:
    Ghadis_God wrote:It really is bad to heal in duels. It seems like a natural part of the game from PvE, but you wouldn't see it in any other 1 on 1 combat game. Why exactly would being able to back away from the opponent make you somehow deserving of a heal anyway? Last time I checked, being super aggressive and keeping close to your opponent gets you bs'd and parried in PvP, it's not a great strategy. Just because the opponent doesn't spend every second of the fight attacking you doesn't give you the right to heal.



    But, and I'm not strawmaning or trolling or anything like that, do I really need a right to heal? If I can pull it off, is that not something I should be able to do?
    You could make the same argument for chain bsing or using TWoP or anything else the community deems cheap. There really is no set of definitive guidelines on what "cheap" is, it's not a quantitative assessment, it has to be reached through general consensus, and even then there's a lot of debate. What's cheap for one person may not be cheap for another, so just don't be surprised when you heal mid fight and earn yourself a chain bs. Just live by the golden rule in PvP: If you don't want it done to you, don't do it to the opponent. That's really what honor is, an agreement between you and your opponent on the rules of combat.



    Point taken. No healing for me then.





    I do have to sidetrack this thread instead of just making another though, has anyone tried Hidden Weapon in PVP?
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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by lordgodofhell on Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:50 pm


    Dont know if this thread is done now, but just my take on it ( I PVP A LOT)

    There are 2 forms of pvp, arranged duels and invasions.

    If you set up an arranged duel with someone than the rules are to be set by both of you and agreed upon. Sometimes, but rarely, healing is allowed. Mostly, it is not.

    If you are invading a random as DW/DMB/etc than there are no rules. Even if they bow to you as hosts you can expect the large majority of them to fight "honorably" at first and then quickly resort to BS fishing/ estus as they lose. Or they will summon a phantom mid fight as they fear loss coming on. This is NOT ALWAYS the case, but again, in my 700 hrs or somethin crazy of pvp, this is what I have experienced. If they do anything I see as breaking the form of a duel, than it becomes a brawl. I will pop a divine blessing and quickly end them for breaking the unwritten code after they bowed indicating that they would not.


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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by Juutas on Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:25 pm

    Heal mid-fight = get no-one's respect.


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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by swordiris on Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:48 pm

    Healing in an invasion is fair or under set rules in a duel.

    imo healing at the kiln 1v1 even is fair IF it wasn't via red soapstone. If it is under invasion rules do what you like.

    invasions are the most fun form of pvp in my opinion.


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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by RANT on Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:45 pm

    If yi u bow and heal midnight prepare to get chain bsd or the worse tricks in the book from people. If it's an invasion you can do whatever you want.


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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by SATLOS on Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:37 pm

    The proliferation of 99 Divine Blessing popping DWs/DMs really gets to me, so I'd say "No" to the OP.

    Killed a guy in the Kiln three times over (those blessings are QUICK) before I caught him with my estoc on the fourth. Didn't use estus once... I don't do the Well What is it often, but this DW deserved it.
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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by Slarg232 on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:18 am

    So here is one final question; Replenishment before the fight. Technically it's a buff, but I'm not sure.
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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:24 am

    Here's a simple way to put it, there are some common ethics held in dueling. Now, you might feel they are stupid and sometimes they can be. Also realize, if you throw those out the window so will your enemy. If an invader, they'll feel free to use ever mob, buff them, possibly glitch, use glitched Divine Blessings to heal to max health faster than your Estus, Chain Backstab you, do anything in the book they see fit. Would you like to fight every fight like this? If so, go to the forest. Leave the duelers to duel if you don't wish to duel.
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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:31 am

    I don't know if I'd say there are ethics in dueling anymore. Too often I get smushed by some spawn stun locker after im summoned into what I think is going to be a 'fair' duel.

    But yeah people tend to get pissed when you do it. Some guy in Giants, MoM, using a Greatshield and a Lightning spear at SL 4 sent to me via message when I heal after he invaded then bowed to me.

    Fortunately I take a hard line with DW when they invaddie during my Gravelording and smushed him several times before he gave up and decided to PM me heaps about how I was the one who was a disgrace to Dark Souls and Demon's Souls.

    Anywho if they bow to you i suggest you dont do it because they probably wont. But if they invaded and just come at you then do whatever you want to do.


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    Re: Is healing mid fight really all that bad?

    Post by Yukon on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:39 am

    Unless you are talking directly with the person/s you are pvping with, and they state rules.. just play how you want to play.

    Most people will respond negatively to healing, but its your game too.


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