Is Ganking ever acceptible?

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    Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:47 am

    I see the posts on Anti-Ganking, and I have to say, I disagree.

    If you invade someone's world, you're an aggressor; it's not a consensual battle. If you find 2 or 3 guys waiting for you, tough. Many times I get invaded by people with completely upgraded gear while I'm still at a +7 weapon; makes it very difficult to win. Once I upgrade all my stuff, fine, 1 on 1. But until then, 2 or 3 vs 1 is just fine in my books.

    If you want a fair fight, use a red soapstone. At least that way, your opponent wants to fight you.

    I have just found any time some dark wraith loses to a 2 on 1, they send a lot of msgs my way. It doesn't make any sense to me; they are the ones instigating against someone that doesn't have any choice. People say, "well just go hollow". Which means, no coop. Well too bad for Solo Dark Wraiths. I'll continue to have fun playing coop, and have no issues 'ganking' anyone.

    How do others feel about it? Is there no place in this game to just have fun playing coop, and beating up any invaders? Why not use red soapstone?
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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by ICEFANG on Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:51 am

    Ganking is considered 2/3v1 with the intent of never finishing the level (or much later), and harvesting the invaders for souls, humanity, and fun.

    I agree with your opinion though. I feel that, in an invasion, the host, as the phantom, has every tool available to use. Hiding behind enemies, using flasks, etc. But when it gets out of hand, and the host kills the same guys over and over, it does get annoying to the invaders, which usually will keep invading you. Anything done with RSS and Dragon Eye feels it should be more honorable duel, but the invader/host may not agree with that either.

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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by Noob-of-Artorias on Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:53 am

    Ganking isn't Acceptable because it quite literally takes the fun out of the game.

    It makes the invader unhappy, and it gives the host free souls without the need to even work for it, that's not what the spirit of this game is about.

    Besides, fighting a host with two phantoms on their way to DO something is different from the host and two phantoms waiting at spawn and rocking you before you can even get your feet on the ground. If you're waiting around it shows that you came for PVP, end of story, and to have a second person to back you up when the invader get's nothing is incredibly cheap and incredibly poor sportsmanship.

    Ganking is only kinda acceptable in my mind when you really quickly need to grind souls, and even then it's iffy.


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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:56 am

    I disagree, I like being ganked. Well, actually I enjoy having people try to gank me, it doesn't usually work.


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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by OrnsteinBro on Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:57 am

    Even with red soapstone, you are still bound to be summoned by ganks. And worse, they know exactly where you are going to spawn, so the smart ones will TWOP you and prepare WOTG-chainstab combo in advance.

    No dice, man.

    Anyway, I treat them as a part of the souls experience. Although I find it funny though that ganks generally cannot live with losing. When (if) I beat a gank I usually get an offensive message, some kid screaming 'cheater' or someone frothing at the mouth threatening to report me for lagstabbing them.





    Last edited by OrnsteinBro on Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by isthefridge on Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:58 am

    There is a big difference between gankers and someone playing through an area. This should be an obvious observation for anyone. Also High traffic areas where the RSS is dropped are now being ruined by gankers. I follow and participate with the streams on twitch.tv and people just watch so they know where to go and ganker red summons.


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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by Doelker on Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:05 pm

    Ok... Ganking = Host plus 1 or two phantoms using the dried finger to get invasions and then gank on the dark/blue phantom, taunting him with the well what is it, pointing down, look skyward or postration gestures among others.

    If you are running to the boss gate doing coop with another 1 or 2 phantom and you get a random invasion... Do whatever you can to stay alive... No hold bars. Just don't disconnect and if you get killed take it as a man.
    You have two phantoms with you, but the invader can use the mob for distraction, so you need to get him as soon as posible.
    If you see there a big differences between cooping and ganking


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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:13 pm

    That's not obvious to me; I thought ganking was any kind of outnumbering.

    I also notice, in the forest, if I summon someone, and let them do 1 on 1, that if a second invader comes in, they have no problem 2 on 1. That annoys me to no end; that I will be honourable, and they will not.

    Also, when I was learning pvp, I had no problem ganking; I was a crappy player, without much humanity, and I didn't see the problem of a crappy player trying to help.

    So gankers will even pull RSS users huh? That's terrible... no good solutions? If I get summoned into a gankers world, I try to run and hide w. Chameleon and wait for more people to invade. Not good enough to 2 on 1 gankers really.

    Edit: I will definitely disconnect getting invaded by trolls. At lvl 40/50, you should not have fully upgraded gear. The intent of keeping your level artificially low is to have an advantage against people you're invading, because normally their gear won't be nearly as good.
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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by ICEFANG on Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:16 pm

    The Dragon Eye forces a 1v1, but players avoid the Dragon Eye from the amount of Dragon glitchers about. Plus it never was an effective way to get duels, even only ok in the Kiln.


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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by Doelker on Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:38 pm

    Mark, if you are alone while you are getting invaded and with little humanity, well I can understand that you pull out your cable, but if you are already with a couple of phantoms, then just go and kick his her butt.
    I know that invaders are like op but they kind of have to because they will be usually outnumbered, plus their skill at PVP is obviously superior.


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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:47 pm

    If my gear isn't very good, it normally doesn't matter, I will lose to an invader. Therefore, it's a fight on the invaders terms, not mine, so I see no issues yanking the cable. If I feel the fight is possible, then I'll give it a go.

    People don't invade normally at lower levels with less than top gear; not that I've seen. Until I get close to that, I don't bother.

    Plus I play the game closer to how the designers intended (or so I think); I don't get the master key, I don't make runs to grab the best gear... I play each area with the intended gear and in the intended order. Gives me a better difficulty and a more enjoyable experience. So I don't have the DWGR until after the Lord Vessel usually. Sometimes if it really fits my build I can go after it after the Depths by grabbing the Large Ember and using some limited Large Shards.
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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by Uparkaam on Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:49 pm

    I like fighting gankers. And if they are having fun ganking then it's a win-win situation for both me and the gankers.


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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:58 pm

    You basically just described a normal invasion, unless you are talking about harvesting souls from invaders.If you're just making your way through the level nothing wrong with having phantoms. Thats not ganking though, ganking is if you summon 2 phantoms and wait at invader spawn points and attack them right as they appear. The gankers who annoy me are the ones who lvl up as high as possible and troll well known dueling areas. It makes it so people only want to host, rather then use red soap or invade. If you wanna gank in forest or dark anor londo thats cool though.
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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by dianaduh on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:01 pm

    there are gankers and griefers, both really annoying.
    also, theres a difference between someone that summons phantoms to help in an area/boss and someone who summons phantoms and WAITS invaders. in the last case you cant really complain against invaders, cause youre waiting them.
    i do 2vs1 3vs1 sometimes with no mercy, but only when i just want to complete the area
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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by BartholomewWenceslas on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:08 pm

    If I'm trying to fight the boss (which 99% of the time, I am), then I'm going to fight that invader with everything at my disposal, though I won't heal unless they do. There's a big difference between fighting for your life and ganking


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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:12 pm

    Ok, thanks for clearing up the terminology and what's acceptable/not acceptable. I'll continue how I'm playing, although I think for defence I'm going to focus more on Force at low levels and hope to knock invaders off cliffs. Only viable defence if I don't have upgraded weapons.

    Unless I'm playing for PvP, I will do everything I can to win an invasion; summon extra phantoms, heal, whatever it takes. If as others have said, I am looking for some PvP action, I will fight 'fair'. Although sometimes its hard to know what rules an opponent is playing by until he breaks it.
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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by RandelOolacile on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:14 pm

    IV_Mark_VI wrote:That's not obvious to me; I thought ganking was any kind of outnumbering.

    I also notice, in the forest, if I summon someone, and let them do 1 on 1, that if a second invader comes in, they have no problem 2 on 1. That annoys me to no end; that I will be honourable, and they will not.

    Also, when I was learning pvp, I had no problem ganking; I was a crappy player, without much humanity, and I didn't see the problem of a crappy player trying to help.

    So gankers will even pull RSS users huh? That's terrible... no good solutions? If I get summoned into a gankers world, I try to run and hide w. Chameleon and wait for more people to invade. Not good enough to 2 on 1 gankers really.

    Edit: I will definitely disconnect getting invaded by trolls. At lvl 40/50, you should not have fully upgraded gear. The intent of keeping your level artificially low is to have an advantage against people you're invading, because normally their gear won't be nearly as good.

    I agree with you in almost all respects except the italicized. I rarely go above lvl 50 as I like to have a nice window to co-op. I have maxed gear legitimately gained on every build. I think alot of people believe the way you do though. I get called a griefer/ganker respectively simply because of this fact. So why am I to have mediocre gear? What says that lvl 50 can't rock +10 armor all around or +5 chaos knife? silly


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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:26 pm

    You can; just don't be surprised when someone that has inferior gear disconnects. What's the difference in doing 150 extra damage due to gear or levels? That's the intent of the level difference for invading is it not? To try to make fights 'fair'? If you get extra defence/damage/hp due to lvl or gear, it's the same advantage, and that's the reason they tried to limit the invading to about the same level or higher.

    In short: if you have upgraded gear and invade places that don't normally have such gear, it's an unfair advantage (honestly earned or not). Don't be surprised if people won't fight.

    If you're helping someone, and an invader shows up, I have little sympathy for the invader. All invaders have maxed gear (or nearly all). They are deciding to invade. But if you are invading other players... you are deciding to fight someone you know likely has inferior equipment to you. It's an unfair fight.
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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by RandelOolacile on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:31 pm

    IV_Mark_VI wrote:You can; just don't be surprised when someone that has inferior gear disconnects. What's the difference in doing 150 extra damage due to gear or levels? That's the intent of the level difference for invading is it not? To try to make fights 'fair'? If you get extra defence/damage/hp due to lvl or gear, it's the same advantage, and that's the reason they tried to limit the invading to about the same level or higher.

    In short: if you have upgraded gear and invade places that don't normally have such gear, it's an unfair advantage (honestly earned or not). Don't be surprised if people won't fight.

    Yeah, I would hope that the disconnects would consider my position, sad. Lol I can understand the position, but it's unfortunate that I would spend some extra time farmig my chunks and suicide running early game for embers to not be able to take advantage of my killer gear!

    Don't get me wrong though, at this point I've begun to sympathize with the general community on the issue. I've begun to carry weaker versions of weapons for certain areas. Its all about us having fun! If my gear takes the fun from someone else than I'll change it happily.


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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:34 pm

    Plus remember mark, despite invaders being low lvl they invade any lvl upwards.So even if they invade the burg or parish theres a chance they will invader a sl120 in ng++ or whatever. So why would invaders limit their gear. Its pretty fair if you ask me, especially since 80% of the phantoms you'll summon will have gear on par with the invader.

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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:43 pm

    Oh I understand why an invader would want top gear; it's random who they'll get to fight. But even at lvl 65 with top gear I have a good chance against a lvl 100 player. I took down many forest players on XBox with an Iron Tarkus build (34 str, around 32 end, and rest into VIT). Gear is more important than levels is it not?

    I can see the point of the Dark Wraith players but... too bad. You're attacking players. You've chosen to do this; why can't players choose not to fight? If you want to use top gear, be a Sunbro.

    Is the Xbox and PS3 communities different? I just know how things play on the 360.


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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by Fhuri on Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:00 pm

    If I get "ganked" repeatably, I just come in and spam WoG.

    It delays my dying by a good 15-20 seconds :p

    PvP invades can get pretty tiresome with all the backstabs anyways
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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by zzombieboy on Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:01 pm

    I think your argument for not having upgraded gear by level 50 is a little unfair. If you so chose, you could have chaos weapons before even visiting the Burg; that's the way the game has been designed, and why shouldn't people use it to their advantage? For anything later than the parish, people using fully upgraded gear is perfectly acceptable in my opinion, as players who are being invaded already have several advantages - possibly being higher level, using estus, having phantoms. Upgraded weapons equal the playing field for an invader.

    Secondly many people (like myself) only use scaling weapons, and so need +15/14 as soon as possible to keep up with those who chose to use chaos/lightning weapons so that they can pump vitality.

    I think in general in Dark Souls, many invaders have become jaded by their experiences of being summoned to or invading into the world of gankers, especially in the high traffic areas such as Gankroot. Don't expect many Forest Hunters to allow you the privelage of a 1v1 if they invade any you are already fighting someone, as 95% of the time in the forest it's 2v1's and as far as the new invader is concerned you already had a phantom and the other blue killed them. Personally, I allow people to 1v1 in the forest if I invade and someone else is already fighting the host, however as soon as I see them heal, I jump in and help my fellow hunter, because as far as I'm concerned a higher level host healing during a 1v1 when the host is deliberately hanging around for PvP is just as bad as ganking.

    I really wouldn't see many situations outside of the forest when you would frequently be invaded by more than 1 phantom at the same time, so I assume that you are reffering to Gankroot in your post regarding that. I also really wouldn't advise people who are inexperienced with PvP to practice in the forest, as all you will learn to do is backstab fish, which is not only boring but will also be extremely ineffective in a 1v1 situation with an experienced PvP'r.

    Also, as others have said there is a massive difference between ganking and coop. Invaders should generally expect the host to have a phantom, and be prepared to deal with that situation. 2v1's only become ridiculous in ganking situations when the host and the phantom(s) vastly out-level the invader

    Edit - P.S I find disconnecting as a host thoroughly unsporting. Disconnecting from a griefer in the Burg/Parish, or disconnecting from gankers as an invader seem perfectly acceptable though!


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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by Tolvo on Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:15 pm

    Also, people need to stop suggesting to you to go fight the invader with your phantoms. That's a terrible idea, considering most invaders can easily single out the host and kill them. Go for the Fog gate, and challenge the boss. Don't even engage the invader if you don't have to. Sure your phantoms can fight them, but don't stick around as they might die or the invader can just escape them after you. Unless you are experienced in PvP, I wouldn't try to fight them.

    Also, many people don't use the Red Soap Stone anymore because of the fact that gankers summon us. As well, I personally enjoy killing gankers so I like to invade there, I don't like griefing so I wish to try and deter it in killing them over and over again until they get the idea. It sort of forces you to not learn about PvP, and get better at the game. If you really do wish to gain experience, invading is the best way. But not in the forest. As you mentioned earlier with forest hunters ganging up on your summon, we've seen hell basically. We see a summon in a world, we most often assume the worst of it and get ready for it to be a gank fest. It's just all in all a battlezone, and if you want more friendly PvP I would suggest somewhere else to do it.

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    Re: Is Ganking ever acceptible?

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:24 pm

    I don't see it as unsporting at all; I can't win, why should I fight? I didn't choose to fight, they came to me. If you're suggesting that for me, to fight sporting, I should use every shortcut possible to get the top gear so I can repel invaders sportingly... I disagree. I *could* get top weapons before the Burg, but I think saying that the game is designed for it is reaching. It is a legitimate path through the game, non glitching, but I shouldn't have to use it just to fight invaders fairly should I? Did they intend for me to have a Chaos weapon to fight the Gargoyles...? I think that's a bad argument.

    Perhaps the metagame of dark souls has evolved to the point where people that have beaten the game many times just dive for some top gear right away, and then go and invade, but that's not the intention. Any time before I get top gear I've died to the invader, so I choose not to fight them. Too bad for them. If invaders fought with lesser gear, then I'd be ok with that, but..

    I use scaling weapons as well. Normally I make a character STR or DEX (or both) dependant. However, you can't really get the +11-15 Ember before the Lord Vessel, unless you kill that guy. I don't really see that is the way the game is designed. I see those things as shortcuts, as things you 'could' use, and they are non-glitch paths.

    The path I use for the game, is the path I feel the designers meant for the player to follow, using the gear they meant for them to have. It makes the PvE much more interesting and challenging for me. I do not want to gun for Chaos/Lightning weapons, stone armour or any other advanced gear just so that invaders can have a good time.


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