dispatching dm misinformation.

    Share
    avatar
    lextune
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 822
    Reputation : 26
    Join date : 2012-01-17

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by lextune on Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:45 am

    Simply stated, the very fact that the "rumors" and "misinformation" exist at all, and that periodically a thread has to be started "defending the covenant" says a lot.


    _________________
    XBL GT: lextune

    A Bunch of My Builds
    avatar
    Yukon
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1307
    Reputation : 99
    Join date : 2012-02-21
    Location : Canada

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Yukon on Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:53 am

    To be fair Darkmoon gets a lot of bad rep for suprisingly little.

    Maybe a darkmoon or two somehow invades a sinless character at a much higher level, but if it doesn't happen with frequency enough to warrent a whole community hating it, which I think from my experience and the experience of many others here, there is no reason the whole covenant should be labeled as greifers.

    Its childish to hate a covenant because it doesn't reward you enough for defeating the player or you get griefed 2 or 3 times, there are just as many people out there who are having fun with it and enjoying it. And it isn't as if the one or two run ins you had with a 50+ griefer broke your game any more than the dragon head/torso glitchers or the DW burg griefers, its just another day in dark souls.

    Good job on this information, pirate, its been awhile since there has been a thread required to clear the air on some DM misconceptions. But as usually its helpful information to know.


    _________________

    PSN: SgtPigeon
    Russian Roulette Duels Saturdays at 1PM - 7PM EST
    avatar
    Forum Pirate
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 6625
    Reputation : 232
    Join date : 2012-01-30
    Age : 26
    Location : International waters

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:02 am

    lextune wrote:
    Forum Pirate wrote:
    I'd be happy to start a log and post it here if you'd like. If you can cease assualting my attempt to clarify how the orb works instead of posting theories of your own now, I would be grateful.

    I haven't posted any theories. I have only shared my experience.

    I have said maybe it was only a glitch, (it has happened more than once to me though, although to be fair I have invaded and appeared as a summon many times too; so who knows). But glitch or not, it runs counter to your "theories" and thus has every right to be mentioned in a thread that claims to be dispatching misinformation.

    The "rumors" do not come from nowhere, and I am not the only reputable regular on the wiki to have DM experiences that are beyond your parameters.

    As for testing, I am just thrilled I have time to play the game, I have neither the time nor the inclination to do any testing. I will just report my experiences on the wiki, as I have always done.
    If no comprehensive pattern can be established, (and I've yet to find on or have one presented for invasion related glitches) then a glitch is what I am forced to believe it to be, and assuming it is a glitch rather than a misinterpretation of events, its no more the dms fualt than invading as a white phantom is. Unfortunate though such a glitchs existence would be, its functionally no different than dw griefers in maxed gear, except the dm didn't likely didn't intend to grief.

    Glad we seem to have reached an understanding. I'll look into it to see what I can come up with.


    Many things require explanation or to be in reminders lex, people seem to forget that dws can invade a ways down as well, and that forest hunters can also invade hollow, and that griefing doesn't require the bb glitch, and that vow of silence exists. I simply chose to focus my effort here on dms this time, I did a bunch of gear a while back as well, though roan ended up expanding greatly on the subject, albiet from a different perspective.


    _________________
    Your rules are yours
    My honor is mine.
    Perspective is everything.
    We are Exiles, and our home is Painted with the blood of trespassers.
    avatar
    lextune
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 822
    Reputation : 26
    Join date : 2012-01-17

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by lextune on Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:30 am

    I have no special hate for the darkmoons, I just honestly think the covenant is a bit broken.

    I certainly don't think that DMB is OP or that being a DM grants one automatic griefer status, but being able to invade down is just a broken mechanic in my opinion.


    _________________
    XBL GT: lextune

    A Bunch of My Builds
    avatar
    Forum Pirate
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 6625
    Reputation : 232
    Join date : 2012-01-30
    Age : 26
    Location : International waters

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:47 am

    I'd agree, if gear weren't more important. A sl 50 with maxed gear is a match for most sl120 builds, though it will lack versatility. If anything, invading appropriately geared (IE+10 fire pike in the depths is a no-no)is more important in terms of "fairness" than a sl difference is going to be, excluding characters under sl 45-50, before end/vit can hit 40.

    I'd honestly prefer to not invade under leveled players, but I maintain that after 45 gear is more important. If I'm dubious, I let them hit me. If it hurts I heal and fight, if it doesn't I drop a humanity and bc or suicide.


    _________________
    Your rules are yours
    My honor is mine.
    Perspective is everything.
    We are Exiles, and our home is Painted with the blood of trespassers.
    avatar
    Maneater_Mildred
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 2525
    Reputation : 182
    Join date : 2012-01-19
    Age : 43
    Location : The 3rd place.

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Maneater_Mildred on Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:20 am

    Quick look at the covs.
    WoW, PG, SunBro, chaos = no invasion mechanic.
    GL, Dragon = duel mechanic.
    DW, FH, DMB = invasion mechanic.

    Of the 3 that can invade 2 can invade down. Looks to me like from really wanted the downward invasions...

    Looks like DWs got the raw deal.


    _________________
    01010111 01010100 01000110:
    01000001 00100000 01101000 01101001 01100100 01100100 01100101 01101110 00100000 01100100 01101111 01101111 01101101 00100000 01110011 01110000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 01110011 00100000 01101111 01110110 01100101 01110010 00100000 01001100 01101111 01110010 01100100 01110010 01100001 01101110 00101110 00100000 01010100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01010011 01101000 01100001 01100100 01101111 01110111 00100000 01001100 01101111 01110010 01100100 01110011 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01001100 01101111 01110010 01100100 01110010 01100001 01101110 00100000 01101000 01100001 01110110 01100101 00100000 01100001 01110010 01110010 01101001 01110110 01100101 01100100 00100001
    avatar
    WyrmHero
    Lordvessel
    Lordvessel

    Posts : 8742
    Reputation : 221
    Join date : 2012-02-16
    Age : 29
    Location : The Painted World

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:40 am

    DWs are the principal invasion covenant though. In my opinion both orbs need to be patched and follow the 10% +- 10 SL range rule or increase the range a bit. I feel bad killing SL 1s and ridiculous fighting SL 700s.


    _________________
    PSN: WyrmHero1945

    Dedicated Blade of the Darkmoon.
    Chaos Legion Str weapons covenant
    avatar
    Forum Pirate
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 6625
    Reputation : 232
    Join date : 2012-01-30
    Age : 26
    Location : International waters

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:47 am

    Why? Everyone doing the same thing the same way defeats the purpose of it all.


    _________________
    Your rules are yours
    My honor is mine.
    Perspective is everything.
    We are Exiles, and our home is Painted with the blood of trespassers.
    avatar
    WyrmHero
    Lordvessel
    Lordvessel

    Posts : 8742
    Reputation : 221
    Join date : 2012-02-16
    Age : 29
    Location : The Painted World

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:10 am

    I guess so, but at least the fights are fair (only gear and skill dependent). I guess some guys find amusing fighting SL 700s, I bow to them.


    _________________
    PSN: WyrmHero1945

    Dedicated Blade of the Darkmoon.
    Chaos Legion Str weapons covenant
    avatar
    Kirk-Barb
    Obsessed
    Obsessed

    Posts : 359
    Reputation : 35
    Join date : 2012-03-30
    Location : Illinois

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Kirk-Barb on Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:57 am

    My experience Sunday afternoon showed to me a Darkmoon can invade down quit a bit more then 10 +10%. I have been hosting with this lvl 12 toon in the upper burg and parish for over a month. Not once have I ever been invaded by a DM in all that time. But Sunday I decided to trade in my blue tear ring for the fap ring. So I freed Lautrec and then killed him. When I returned to the upper burg, my second invasion was a Darkmoon armed with an electric washing pole and eagle shield. He did 30 points of damage through my shield! I died. My next invader was again the same DM. Same washingpole and eagle shield. This time I used my spear and turtled. He would strike for 30 through my shield and I would counter with 80 points with my spear. I got a couple extra hits in without taking damage and the DM was kind enough to pass on the half dozen chances he had to backstab me, and I won by the skin of my teeth. I received 7000+ souls. I caculated him at lvl 49. I then asked him what level he was and he said 40 something. In all he invaded me 4 times in a row.... like he was locked onto my PSN. I quit.. and even helped two different players kill the tarus demon in between. But there was no getting away from the guy. I finally just called it a day. Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed fighting the guy. He was cool. But Lautrec was sure laughing it up from his grave.
    avatar
    lextune
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 822
    Reputation : 26
    Join date : 2012-01-17

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by lextune on Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:16 pm

    I agree that eventually it is more about equipment and skill, although I put that level a bit higher. I'd say somewhere around level 75/80.....

    I have a level 80 that invades in the Tomb and I have killed countless high level (250 or above) hosts.

    But when you are level 25 or lower and get invaded by someone 50+ there is no real point. You might as well get the message "spirit of vengeance has invaded", and just fall over dead. silly


    _________________
    XBL GT: lextune

    A Bunch of My Builds
    avatar
    OrnsteinBro
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 254
    Reputation : 9
    Join date : 2012-08-05

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by OrnsteinBro on Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:05 pm

    I dunno, maybe there are fewer Darkmoons or something and so it's easier to encounter the unsporting ones, but in my experience I've had more Darkmoons run off to heal with humanity/blessings or try to aggro monsters on me (in the middle of a duel) than I've had Darkwraiths do.

    This is speaking from experience hosting solely at the kiln, so experiences in other areas may vary, but I rarely see Darkwraiths pull these 'unsavoury' tactics. Usually DWs will just outright try to kill you, and if they die they die. No biggie.

    There are righteous Darkmoons all right, but the percentage of duckwads invading via blue orb is much higher.


    _________________
    Nothing tastes as good as being thin feels.
    avatar
    zzombieboy
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 222
    Reputation : 3
    Join date : 2012-06-28
    Location : UK

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by zzombieboy on Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:01 pm

    I'm surprised that this hasn't already been said, but when I invade as a level 120 Darkmoon, I often only get a couple of thousand souls, compared to the 9040 which you get for killing a level 120 host. This suggests to me that Darkmoon's can invade lower levels, and certainly I've one-shotted people with spells only doing around 800 damage which, for me, supports that theory. I've also been invaded by Darkmoon's using the TCC with Soul Spears and one-handing Black Knight Weapons in the Burg when I am <10, which just isn't possible within the confines you establish for Darkmoon invasions in the OP.

    DM does get a lot of hate though, but there are legit reasons for joining it besides DMB; the Homing Soulmass spells actually work if you invade as a Darkmoon, and being able to invade in areas where the boss is still alive without being 'human' and thus open to invasions yourself is really useful when you just want to invade!


    _________________
    YOLO, eh? Not in Lordran!
    :blue-orb: :bas:
    avatar
    Gaxe
    Obsessed
    Obsessed

    Posts : 507
    Reputation : 6
    Join date : 2012-07-21
    Location : Steam: TrueDPS

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Gaxe on Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:05 pm

    Here's what I think, invading shouldn't have a SL cap at all no matter how high or down. There should be a arena with 1v1 , 2v2, 3v3 options and it finds people near your SL and matches you guys up into a arena.
    avatar
    reim0027
    Moderator
    Moderator

    Posts : 6715
    Reputation : 381
    Join date : 2012-01-28

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:15 pm

    I like the idea of Darkmoon convenant. Invading those who invade. It also keeps pvp, in general, more active. If I want to host, then I have more chances to become invaded. In theory, if you don't invade and kill others, then you won't be hunted down in retribution.

    Arguing it is broken is a bit too much, however. The reverse can be said for the DW covenant. Last night, as a SL 21, I invaded a 105 twice, in Btown. So, following that logic, the DW covenant is broken as well.

    I would also love to see testing done to verify the SL range. I know, as a DM, I've invaded way lower. But, I don't know if that is a glitch, or a "last resort" to find a host.


    _________________


    PSN usernames: reim0027_2,   reim0027_3,  and reim0027_5.  Skype ID: reim0027  
    Tour of Lordran Soul Levels  //  Official Wiki Fight Club // Forest Invasion Soul Levels // Low Level Invasion Rules
    avatar
    Tristan
    Obsessed
    Obsessed

    Posts : 364
    Reputation : -1
    Join date : 2012-08-01
    Location : Reprisal Town

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Tristan on Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:33 pm

    Has anyone ever considered that the formula for acquiring souls via DMB covenant is slightly different and possibly nerfed in comparison? Or is it a proven fact that the formula for acquiring souls through successfully invading and killing a host is standard? I've had people sometimes claim that they are a lower sl than what they really are.


    _________________
    PSN-Eidolon-Reveries
    Vereor Nox
    Umbassa
    Faith Enthusiast
    avatar
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee

    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 25
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:23 pm

    I haven't really seen much anti DM stuff since pre 2012 lol, but theres a few interesting tidbits here especially the DMB weakness.

    My favourite invasion covenant is the Moonbros, such a well meaning but sometimes misunderstood bunch happy


    _________________
    PSN and other stuff:
    PSN: HolyPK9 "You are free to sever the chains of fate that bind you"

    Sage Andarta, Founder of the Crystal Seekers; The Noble Knights

    Principal GremSay of the Karmatic Gremlin Gang

    Moderator of the Wiki Chatroom- Come join the fun  cheers

    PRAISE. THE. SUN. lol!
    avatar
    Uparkaam
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1668
    Reputation : 45
    Join date : 2012-01-18

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Uparkaam on Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:33 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:I haven't really seen much anti DM stuff since pre 2012 lol, but theres a few interesting tidbits here especially the DMB weakness.

    My favourite invasion covenant is the Moonbros, such a well meaning but sometimes misunderstood bunch happy

    Yeah there was definitely more DM hate back in the old forums. And I remember that there was a lot of FH hate too. But luckily things are now better.


    _________________
    GFWL & PSN accounts:
    GFWL: Rusty Patches
    PSN accounts:
    Uparkaam (main account)
    Dorkmoon
    Torch_Hollow
    Ravelord_Servant
    Gastro_Zombie
    avatar
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee

    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 25
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:31 pm

    Indeed, it's fortunate really since FH generally get the worst deal possible.


    _________________
    PSN and other stuff:
    PSN: HolyPK9 "You are free to sever the chains of fate that bind you"

    Sage Andarta, Founder of the Crystal Seekers; The Noble Knights

    Principal GremSay of the Karmatic Gremlin Gang

    Moderator of the Wiki Chatroom- Come join the fun  cheers

    PRAISE. THE. SUN. lol!
    avatar
    Forum Pirate
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 6625
    Reputation : 232
    Join date : 2012-01-30
    Age : 26
    Location : International waters

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:06 pm

    I'm well aware that DMs can invade lower than the formula allows. I have reached the conclusion with my testing however, that its done only in cases where the system cannot find someone eligible to be invaded in the formulas range. This is only in my testing however, and observation bias likely skewed my results. (IE the pattern I saw could have been abnormal)

    Admitedly this is difficult to test by itself, because one cannot control the environment for such tests.

    Also, the bottom range for a 120 is 98 which only drops 5700 souls upon death, if that helps clarify. If not I must ask, where are you invading?


    _________________
    Your rules are yours
    My honor is mine.
    Perspective is everything.
    We are Exiles, and our home is Painted with the blood of trespassers.
    avatar
    JohnnyHarpoon
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 718
    Reputation : 25
    Join date : 2012-01-19
    Location : Zanzibar Land

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by JohnnyHarpoon on Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:04 pm

    Personally, in terms of the whole 'Lightning Def. v Magic Def.' argument, I think it's not valid - it's just as easy to build a character with L. Def. as it is to build a character with Magic Def.

    Expecting somebody to carry a Crest Shield for Magic users is no less presumptuous than expecting somebody to carry the Effigy shield for Lightning users. Also:
    - Effigy shield cuts L. Damage by 90%
    -The only shields that cut Mag. Damage by 90% are Havel's or the Crystal Ring Shield.
    -Thus, that's either 50 STR dedicated to a heavy shield (as opposed to 16 FTH to use the Effigy shield), or committing to only 70% physical dmg reduction, which is pretty meager.

    Generally speaking in terms of shields, there are two medium shields with Mag Dmg red over 50% (80 for Crest and 60 for Crystal), whereas there are TWENTY with Ltg Dmg red over 50% (80 for Crystal, 70 for Garg, 65 for East-West/Wooden/Silver Knight/Black Knight), plus the oh-so-common Grass Crest has nearly 10% more Ltg Dmg red than Mag Dmg red. Finally, 5 greatshields with better Ltg Dmg red as opposed to 3 with better Mag Dmg red.

    I also feel the same about armor. I'll admit, armor generally does have better Mag Def than L. Def, but the armors with the best Mag Def also typically have pretty sweet L. Def - the Dingy set literally has both the best Mag and L. defenses in the game! That's 190mag/150ltg, which is a smaller spread than the potential 80 more dmg DMB does! Finally, I still can't help but feel it a little presumptuous to assume that everybody just naturally has high magic defense because it's more common - I think it is equally inconvenient for one to build your character to truly resist magic as it is to build it to resist lightning.

    I give you that there is no spell to lessen Ltg Dmg, but in terms of sheer timing, try getting a GMB off after your opponent casts DMB outside of, say, fight club - might as well just let yourself be backstabbed. And, when it comes down to it, if your build is reliant on a singular, Darkmoon-bladed weapon to win PvP, your build is weak no matter how you spin it. For example, you could at the very least throw them off and rebuff with Rotten/Charcoal or maybe even Pine resin if you have some - they can't undo GMB, so they're stuck with now useless Mag Def as you poison/burn/ltg them.

    I'm not saying DMs suck or are OP or anything, just that I think the whole debate is a bit of a farce - anything can be countered, but it's highly unlikely that every PvPer will be prepared for every situation.

    More important than anything in PvP is versatility (I would say timing, but lag does a decent enough job ruining that). It's relying on yourself more than any weapon or armor or shield. It's not giving a flying f*ck whether they're throwing Darkmoon Blade, Sunlight Blade or Great Magic Barrier at you because you have more than one trick up your sleeve.

    That's just my opinion, and dishonorable PvPers can be the bane of the most versatile of toons...but I just think it's stupid to cry foul at Ltg v. Mag buffs when it's equally inconvenient to plan for defense against either.


    _________________
    I tiptoed through Hell and didn't break a sweat. I swam the Seven Seas and didn't get wet. I'm the pretty Big Chief you ever met.
    avatar
    JohnnyHarpoon
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 718
    Reputation : 25
    Join date : 2012-01-19
    Location : Zanzibar Land

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by JohnnyHarpoon on Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:32 pm

    Also as a sidenote, I've put down my White SS, been summoned, and appeared as a red phantom. I was a Gravelord, so it's not exclusive to DMs or Blue Phantoms.


    _________________
    I tiptoed through Hell and didn't break a sweat. I swam the Seven Seas and didn't get wet. I'm the pretty Big Chief you ever met.
    avatar
    Forum Pirate
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 6625
    Reputation : 232
    Join date : 2012-01-30
    Age : 26
    Location : International waters

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:49 pm

    As I said, dmb averages between 10 and 80 more damage per hit, hardly a big difference, but if a dm invades to duel one can simply cast gmb or gms as they buff, ruining their damage potential.

    As an easy example of stacking magic defense with armor, even in giants chest/hands/feet (which have mediocre defense in both magic and lightning), adding a mlgs on the back and a big hat will jump magic defense from 264 to 370. I'm aware of no such simply way to boost lightning defense without building a charater around it.


    _________________
    Your rules are yours
    My honor is mine.
    Perspective is everything.
    We are Exiles, and our home is Painted with the blood of trespassers.
    avatar
    zzombieboy
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 222
    Reputation : 3
    Join date : 2012-06-28
    Location : UK

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by zzombieboy on Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:57 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:I'm well aware that DMs can invade lower than the formula allows. I have reached the conclusion with my testing however, that its done only in cases where the system cannot find someone eligible to be invaded in the formulas range. This is only in my testing however, and observation bias likely skewed my results. (IE the pattern I saw could have been abnormal)

    Admitedly this is difficult to test by itself, because one cannot control the environment for such tests.

    Also, the bottom range for a 120 is 98 which only drops 5700 souls upon death, if that helps clarify. If not I must ask, where are you invading?

    Anor Londo, of course silly

    Usually end up invading gankers (which is my aim), but I do quite frequently invade those who I would estimate to be around 50, with gear/vit/dropped souls. I got bored of 'duelling' in the Burg etc and meeting the same faces over and over again so I've gone rogue for the time being happy Unfortunately though, there isn't any way to tell someone's level range until they are dead.

    And yes, as I understand it is a best-match system, but they had to have some way of increasing the odds of the actually invading as Darkmoon; the odds of getting someone within your standard level range, close to you on the network, who is human and who has sinned and then managing to successfully invade them are actually incredibly small if you think about it, so I don't have any complaints about DM invasion range (having been on the giving and receiving end). The guilty pay the price afterall Praise the Sun



    _________________
    YOLO, eh? Not in Lordran!
    :blue-orb: :bas:
    avatar
    Forum Pirate
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 6625
    Reputation : 232
    Join date : 2012-01-30
    Age : 26
    Location : International waters

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:05 am

    The invasion ring has no sl limit.

    Yeah though, with the possible exception of an invasion glitch, which isn't the dms fualt, dm invasions are completely avoidable, even if one wishes to pvp.

    DMs and hunters can invade hollow, sinless hosts are safe, and duelist wraiths can use the rss if they wish to avoid sin.


    _________________
    Your rules are yours
    My honor is mine.
    Perspective is everything.
    We are Exiles, and our home is Painted with the blood of trespassers.

    Sponsored content

    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:06 pm