dispatching dm misinformation.

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    dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:37 pm

    I'm trying to clear up some misconceptions I see among even some of the more experienced members. While trash talking covenants is rare here (now), I still see some old grudges and confused newbies, so I am sharing what I know and hopefully dispelling some bad rumors.

    This is how darkmoon invasions work.

    ( X +/- (10 +/- (10% of X))), where X is your current lvl. This means that, for example, if you're level 50, you can invade people from lvl 35 (50 -15), to lvl 65 (50 +15).

    What this means is a sl 120 DM will invade eligible players between 98 and 142, invading whomever the search finds first. ONLY if no eligible hosts are found, will the DM invade lower. The same can be said of the red eye orb, but replace "lower" with "higher". This means that in relatively sl specific invasion areas like the burg or the painted world, being above sl 120 does not increase your chances of invading, reguardless of the orb used. DMs can invade farther down than others can using orbs, yes, however in my experience and the experience of several others I have talked to, it is not common to invade outside the regular sl range unless you're seriously overleveled for the area (sticking to 120 and the burg as examples, a dm would likely need to be above sl 150 to be regularly invading out of the initial formula, and such invasions would be slow) or invading the same 1 or 2 low sl people repeatedly, in which case simply reloading the save will often fix the issue.

    There is speculation that the amount of sin a player possesses modifies the formula, but I haven't seen proof of this.

    There accusations of DMs invading supposedly sinless characters. I will remind everyone that the bottomless box transfers sin, and that indictment sin cannot be absolved.

    There is also a variant of the glitch at the link below that has the occasional summon or dark wraith invade as blue. If I can find a video depicting the variant I will update the link.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEmn3J_k1iQ

    The Darkmoon summon ring works essentialy the same way the cat covenant ring works, the only restriction is that the host must be in dark Anor Londo.

    There are players who cry foul that DMs get the strongest buff in game. I must remind these players that magic defense is far easier to boost than the lightning defense that sunlight blade acts upon, and many armors have better magic defense than lightning. There are also 2 sorceries and 2 miracles that cut magic damage and none that cut lightning damage. After testing, and verification, dark moon blade only does between 10 and 80 more damage per hit than sunlight blade, and as previously mentioned, magic is easier to mitigate than lightning.

    Wrath of god is hardly DM exclusive, players using it are a dime a dozen, dms using it are simply making the most of their covenant choice.

    Finally, I have heard the odd mention of DMs invading hollow because they're afraid to lose. I must point out that invading hollow is no different than invading in an area with a dead boss except that DMs can invade hollow in the kiln, and neither speak of the character of the player.

    Hope this helps.


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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by RANT on Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:53 pm

    the only reason i dont like dms is i get no humanity whn i kill them and barely any souls. ive joined the dm cove about twice and dmb is not worth it, like you said slb can be more powerful since most people have a higher res to magic than lightning, for example on my warrior build i have a magic res of 376 and a lightning res of 301 which makes them pretty much the same or slb better. i still think they onvade hollow in the kiln cause they dont like beign invaded though, i rarely invade any dms there.


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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by WyrmHero on Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:55 pm

    Forum if we can invade the 10% +-10 why do we get so many fails???? I try to invade the Burg at SL 120 and I get fails all the time, meanwhile I use a cracked orb and I get fast invasions.


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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:58 pm

    I don't like being invaded except in the pw.

    My point wasn't that DMs do enjoy being invaded, but that (excluding the kiln) every invader who doesn't like being invaded can avoid it by killing the boss.

    Its less cowardice and more "I don't want to have to run a lap every time I lose."


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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:02 pm

    WyrmHero wrote:Forum if we can invade the 10% +-10 why do we get so many fails???? I try to invade the Burg at SL 120 and I get fails all the time, meanwhile I use a cracked orb and I get fast invasions.
    The search does not exclude sinless or hollow players, so we're connected to fewer people that we can invade, and the system times out checking for sin among human players whos boss is alive. Its the extra parameter increasing search times and hitting the time limit.


    Oh@rant. Why would you expect to be rewarded for killing the lordan justice system? Its like killing random people for their money. Even if you kill the cop that shows up, they're not like to have money on them.


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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by RANT on Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:22 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:
    WyrmHero wrote:Forum if we can invade the 10% +-10 why do we get so many fails???? I try to invade the Burg at SL 120 and I get fails all the time, meanwhile I use a cracked orb and I get fast invasions.
    The search does not exclude sinless or hollow players, so we're connected to fewer people that we can invade, and the system times out checking for sin among human players whos boss is alive. Its the extra parameter increasing search times and hitting the time limit.


    Oh@rant. Why would you expect to be rewarded for killing the lordan justice system? Its like killing random people for their money. Even if you kill the cop that shows up, they're not like to have money on them.

    what?! cops carry money if you didn know(bad analogy) and i want humanity otherwise it just feels like a waste of time since i get wog spammers that end up getting bsd and I get hatemail.


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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:35 pm

    I can say the same about my invasions. I don't get anything when I win either. Kind of the point I would think, less risk less reward. The humanity you could get would have to come from somewhere. The guilty are to be punished, so the punishers use a system that prevents retaliation and doesn't reward victorious sinners, but they themselves get little material gain out of their kills.


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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by RANT on Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:40 pm

    dude, you get sovs which make dmb better and of course you rank up too but im just gonna stop cause i dont see this going anywhere. its just my opinion.


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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:38 am

    You mean the thing we need 80 of to match slb for damage that the crest shield, great magic shield, and great magic barrier all render useless?

    As I said, DMs don't really get anything. Access to a buff that slb out performs a good deal of the time is hardly a reward.


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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by lextune on Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:45 am

    Ha!

    ....another one of these threads huh? Nice. Been awhile.

    Maybe it was a "glitch", like trying to invade, but spawning as a summons instead; any/all multi player can be glitchy, but I have had sinless toons, just arriving at the burg, at starting level get invaded by DM's 40 to 50 levels above me....

    ....more than once.

    It is an unmitigated fact.


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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:51 am

    BB carries sin, I mentioned that. Unless you both won and screencaped the souls you got, along with your sl, I'm inclined to say it was a color switch or you bbd sin over, aquired sin.

    It is possible that a glitch did actually have dms invade your sinless character, I admit, but it seems doubtful as I've never experienced it, nor seen proof


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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by lextune on Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:12 am

    Yeah, you mentioned it, but it was not relevant, since the toons were not glitched.

    I have no reason to lie, and I did not win, lol. I had starter gear, and had not leveled. I was spammed by WoG, which I rolled through, then had a Claymore fed to me, (192 stamina worth of it), missed a parry attempt, and was dead.

    The audacity that it takes to state what you 'believe', then say that anyone claiming otherwise needs screen caps is beyond laughable.


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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:16 am

    Well maybe he was a DM griever? Forum did say DMs invade close to your SL (10% +- 10) even if you don't have sin. Right?


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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by lextune on Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:19 am

    I had a perfectly amiable chat with him after, (where I learned he was level 50 something). He claimed that the burg was "the only place the blue orb seemed to work."


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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:21 am

    You were SL <10?


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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:23 am

    I was simply sharing my experience, what I know (or believe I know) based on my experience as a DM exclusive player. you're not required to believe me, but yes I would prefer to be shown proof that my knowledge is flawed before I alter my understanding. Thats not unreasonable. If such proof can be supplied I will gladly alter the OP to reflect the new information The point is to explain how dms work after all, it doesn't explain anything if I got it wrong.


    And not to my knowledge wyrm. Only players with sin unless theres a glitch somewhere.


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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by lextune on Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:28 am

    Soul level 2. Cleric.

    Got out of the asylum. Made my way to the burg, turned human, kindled fire, stepped outside, got invaded.

    Toons wasn't even 10 minutes old.

    I chronicled the story on the old wiki forum back in December or January, when it happened.

    I am still having trouble with the fact that the OP is "dispatching" "misinformation" by his very words. But any other words "seem doubtful" simply because they are not him I suppose. It is quite a thing to witness, lol.


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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:32 am

    I would like to test that. If I get invaded by a DM without having sin then there's something wrong with that orb. Apart from many failed invasions and invading very low SLs is the reason why many guys hate us. It's a shame because Darkmoons are the coolest covenant in my opinion, and I will always be DM proud. Praise the darkmoon.


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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:33 am

    I'm not here to argue with you. I'm not simply disregarding anything anyone else says. I admitted the possibly of a glitch allowing him to invade you, possibly even an unknown mechanic, rather than you having sin, however I have neither experienced this nor been shown evidence beyond your word so I am reluctant to jump to a conclusion. What more do you want?


    I'll do what I can to help test if necessary wyrm.


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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by lextune on Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:47 am

    I don't WANT anything.

    But you claim you are "dispatching misinformation" when all you are really doing is sharing your experience.

    Many other people have had different experiences with the darkmoons, (which is where the "rumors" you mention come from).

    The idea that we are suppose to take your experiences as exactly how everything works, and all other experiences should be accompanied by "proof" is ridiculous.


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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:51 am

    Nice I'll PM you when I get the chance. We can do it at LH meeting spot cause of low traffic. SL 80, I think I don't have sin on that toon. I summon you first through RSS so we connect then you vade me with blue orb.


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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:09 am

    You're not. The numbers I posted have been tested, by me, by rynn, and others, thats why its on the wiki, which I can't edit. If you wish to do so yourself go ahead. If your results differ, I'll be glad to see it and test further.

    If you're interested in discovering the cause of yourexperiences, or anyone elses go right ahead. I sincerely await the results.In the mean time, I welcome your theories as I would hope you'd welcome mine but without evidence, even just a log of invasion experiences with dms, all theories, should be treated as dubious. The only reason I did not provide such information is because my theories have been tested by numerous people and those are the results they got.

    I'd be happy to start a log and post it here if you'd like. If you can cease assualting my attempt to clarify how the orb works instead of posting theories of your own now, I would be grateful.






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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Tristan on Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:32 am

    i have to say that based off of my experiences this is very spot on to say the least. I've had "Dark Spirits" invade and be blue phantoms and aqlways slightly higher than me.


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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by lextune on Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:34 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:
    I'd be happy to start a log and post it here if you'd like. If you can cease assualting my attempt to clarify how the orb works instead of posting theories of your own now, I would be grateful.

    I haven't posted any theories. I have only shared my experience.

    I have said maybe it was only a glitch, (it has happened more than once to me though, although to be fair I have invaded and appeared as a summon many times too; so who knows). But glitch or not, it runs counter to your "theories" and thus has every right to be mentioned in a thread that claims to be dispatching misinformation.

    The "rumors" do not come from nowhere, and I am not the only reputable regular on the wiki to have DM experiences that are beyond your parameters.

    As for testing, I am just thrilled I have time to play the game, I have neither the time nor the inclination to do any testing. I will just report my experiences on the wiki, as I have always done.


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    Re: dispatching dm misinformation.

    Post by Tristan on Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:37 am

    lextune wrote:
    Forum Pirate wrote:
    I'd be happy to start a log and post it here if you'd like. If you can cease assualting my attempt to clarify how the orb works instead of posting theories of your own now, I would be grateful.

    I haven't posted any theories. I have only shared my experience.

    I have said maybe it was only a glitch, (it has happened more than once to me though, although to be fair I have invaded and appeared as a summon many times too; so who knows). But glitch or not, it runs counter to your "theories" and thus has every right to be mentioned in a thread that claims to be dispatching misinformation.

    The "rumors" do not come from nowhere, and I am not the only reputable regular on the wiki to have DM experiences that are beyond your parameters.

    As for testing, I am just thrilled I have time to play the game, I have neither the time nor the inclination to do any testing. I will just report my experiences on the wiki, as I have always done.

    I would be happy to do some tests. If you tell me exactly what I need to doI will gladly test what needs to be tested.


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