BB Glitch must be patched

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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Gazman0169 on Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:06 pm

    Here's a thought, how about patching the glitch so that it only becomes available after you've played a toon through to the end of NG+, as this would then get rid of any criticism that the player did not earn everything in his/her bottomless box to begin with?
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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Yukon on Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:17 pm

    To be honest I think removing the BB glitch wouldn't stop people from muling over items with a wss or a rss. Nothing can stop players who trade items from end game between themseleves, it just makes it a little more difficult to do and takes more coordination.

    It a little harder than BB but you can easily get end game armour and fully upgraded weapons traded over to you from another persons account, or even use the rss to trade your items to someone at a level vastly different from yours then return those items to a different lower level player. So if the BB glitch was patched, I think it would deter-not all- but a vast majority of new players from cheating in this manner, and would allow the community to still try new things with the help of others from the forums or their friends.

    It wouldn't outright stop people from doing this but it wouldn't kill the pvp'ers either. There's always a work around even if the glitch is patched in the future.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Doelker on Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:28 pm

    BB glitching...
    Look at people's answers:
    "If you don't want to get griefed stay hollow" - Enjoy only the 50% of the game PvE wise.
    "If you vo Human be prepared for anything" - Even an alien invasion? Just asking tho...

    Now, there is no way to tell if all the people for the community uses the glitch for "honorable" purposes, and not actually griefing the newbies the same way they were griefed in the beginning of their own playthrough.
    The fact is that a glitch is a glitch, no matter what you do or say about it and is not part of the game core mechanics.
    Any glitch harms the experience the developers intended to create. There is no such thing as a perfect game. Any game has exploits and there is always people responsable of looking for this exploits and using them because all what they want are easy things. Easy wins, easy access to weapons or materials or whatever, godlike strength or health, you name it.
    If they wanted you to get easy things on Dark Souls, then the game would be just another silly pseudo rpg-hack and slash game like thousends out there and not the great game FROM delivered to us, even with all it faults.
    Invasions are part of the PvE mechanic and is the PvP experience that the developers wanted you to experience and helps to balance the coop. That's my opinion though.
    If you only want to pvp and get your 5 seconds duels, then be my guest. To each his own.
    I really love this game, and every day I see how other players ruin it. One day I will just lay down my sword and move on, but while I am still battling I will do it how it is meant to be done.
    I don't want to one shot everything when I am helping a newcomer, I love the challange of fighting together as equals and the only thing keeping you alive is your own skills.
    If the host gets invaded, then probably both will get griefed.
    But these are just words, and words won't change what is really happening and the saddest part is that if they patch the glitches, peolple will find other ways to get their stuff easy and their easy kills.
    At the end is not the game's fault, but the gamer's.
    Cheers.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Gazman0169 on Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:35 pm

    Yes, but the whole beauty of the BB Glitch is that you can create a new toon with very little effort, and if you're looking to try out something new on the PvP stage this is an undeniable God-send. Here's another thought for ya, with the upcoming DLC why not completely patch the BB Glitch, but have it so that you can only transfer all of your items over to your Arena toons? I would also like it if we had the ability to set up arenas all across Lordran, not just in one place, like a travelling show if you will, but for this to work FROM would probably need to create a new Soapstone.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Heroez Blade on Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:38 pm

    Exactly what Doelker just said.

    there is always going to be glitches and whenever they are patched people are just going to find new and better ways of glitching. So basically it would be a really big hastle for FROM to try and patch this just for people to find new ways of doing it. Just because the glitch is out there does not mean that you still cant go through the game with your friends and still have a challenging run. It is not the end of the world if you get invaded by a glitcher, it may be annoying but simply forget about it and move on with the game.

    I mean look at the Call of Duty series. Most of those games have been hacked like crazy, but thousands of people still play them. So this one glitch on dark souls should not be taken as a serious game ruiner.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Yukon on Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:41 pm

    Although I enjoy that idea Gaz, I have a feeling we won't be seeing that in the DLC. Maybe instead in D X souls (3) there will be a dedicated PVP arena that allows instant player creation, but still, if you are just making a character and using it in the arena, you have no time to get used to the mechanics of that character.

    Atleast to me, the whole process of building a character is to learn how to use them in PVE and PVP. I don't hop out of asylum readying to break other peoples backs instead I progress steadily and once I am comfortable using the new weapons I have I start invading or hosting in the early areas, usually with a +5 or +10 weapon and starting armour. If I can't learn to use a build with starting vitality and endurance with a fast roll, then I probably can't use it much better with its full stats and the proper armour.

    But this is just my opinion, if the arena creator did come out, I am not sure how much I would use it just because I like having the comfort of a learning curve and the feeling of progression.

    I also want to state that I don't think high end gear griefers who BB are a blight on the game, just that I don't think the glitch should be in the game, so I would agree with a patch. Its really no worse than any other glitch people use in the game once you get past sens.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by SlakeMoth on Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:11 pm

    Well, I've checked out a video on Youknowwhat and all I can say is I wont be attempting to use the BB glitch, mainly because it looks kind of convoluted and, knowing how ham fisted I am, I'd probably end up losing more than I gained. Also, whether From patch it or not is of little interest to me. Those people who use it, for whatever reason, lose some of the satisfaction that I get from building a character from scratch and acquiring items the hard way. Yes, I know that they've had to do this once already but it's just not the way I operate.
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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Carphil on Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:27 pm

    @Doelker cheers man, very nice point!


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:33 pm

    It is a double-edged sword. It simultaneously makes both griefing and pvping much more viable. I don't have an answer, or even a fair compromise for this. The arguments are sound on both sides.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:34 pm

    Then I'll offer a third side, team kills babies while punching seals with burning american flags.

    I'm not trying to unite you guys against a common enemy or anything.
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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Gazman0169 on Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:04 pm

    Slake, one question if I may?

    Do you think you will feel the same way after completing NG+, or NG++, or even NG+++?

    I too like to create my builds from scratch, and I have been known to farm until the cows come home to get the materials needed for my next upgrade (Titantite slabs and chunks anyone?), but I can still see there will come a time when I am no longer willing to devote so much of my playtime farming the materials needed to make my next +whatever/whatever/whatever.

    Added to which, given that without glitching you will only ever be able to fully upgrade one Divine or Occult, one Enchanted or Magic, and one Chaos or Fire weapon per play through; seeing as that without a great deal of luck and a shed-load of patience you are only realistically going to be able to find one of each of the White, Blue, and Red slabs per playthrough; the benefits of having the BB Glitch in place are plain for all to see.

    I mean, how many of us would have the patience to upgrade every weapon type in all of the possible ascensions without using a glitch of some type?

    I may like farming, but not even I am willing to do so to that extreme!


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Doelker on Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:45 pm

    I do get your point Gaz. And all others who use the BB to create their PvP builds. And if you all are just doing it for that motiv then I guess you are not hurting anyone... Right.

    I don't know if you remember one of my posts about a noob griefer at the Parish? A 4 year XBL user that just passed anor londo by the look of his achievements? He just trashed that first experience we all had and that made us fall in love with this game by bb glitching a lightning weapon havel's set.

    He was so funny when you looked at him using iron flesh and could hardly move. He only needed one slash to kill you tho...

    This is the kind of use I don't agree with. And it happens because obviously he got his *** griefed to many times that he knew about the glitch and he decided to do it himself to grief other newcomers.

    So as I stated, is not the glitch, is not the game... Is just people and their human nature.

    You have fun pvping, they have fun griefing... I have fun cooping and to make it more enjoyable, I do it the proper manner.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Gazman0169 on Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:22 pm

    Good for you. I was griefed something rotten when I first started out, I lived through it, but not once have I ever considered being a griefer myself. Also, up until this point in time, not once have I purposely glitched the game to get an advantage over an opponent. I have tried out the BB Glitch, just to see if it works, but I've stopped short at actually using a glitched toon in game. There may come a time when I decide to go down this route, and this will be purely to create new toons who I can use to duel with, but at the mo I am more concerned with getting my first play through done and dusted. I am ashamed to say that even though I have had the game since release day one on the PS3 I am yet to take a toon over to NG, which comes down to my unhealthy obsession with farming and exploring every conceivable nook and cranny, combined with the fact that I have an annoying habit of reinventing my existing toons to enable them to use different weapons and armor. Seriously, I've lost count the amount of hours that I have wasted starting from scratch, and if I had just knuckled down and got on with it I would probably be on NG++++++++++++++whatever by now! lol
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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by SlakeMoth on Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:34 pm

    Gazman0169 wrote:Slake, one question if I may?

    Do you think you will feel the same way after completing NG+, or NG++, or even NG+++?


    I may like farming, but not even I am willing to do so to that extreme!

    I agree with a lot of what you said in your full post Gazman. I can quite see why people use it and, like I said if that floats their boat that's fine. The difference for me is that I'm playing Dark Souls because I would dearly like to get the Platinum Trophy which means I need to play it through roughly two and a half times to get all the weapons for the Knights Trophy. Currently I'm on ng+ with my first character and about two thirds through the first playthrough with my second and hopefully I will be able to get the trophy with just these two characters, so I don't need to make multiple characters. I've never gone for a trophy before and if I get it I'll probably take a rest from the game or start a new character from scratch just for the fun of it.

    @Doelke. I agree with what you have written in your posts 100%, so I've given you my +1 for the day.
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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Cantankerous_Flood on Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:52 pm

    Cheers to Doelker! Exactly what I've been trying to say! Thanks.

    I do have one thing to say about when you compared this situation to the abused glitches and griefers in the Call of Duty franchise. I agree that there are always glitches and no game is perfect, but at least TreArch/Infinity Ward/Sledgehammer/Activision pacth up the problems. That's how they keep their millions of fans: by keeping the battlefield relatively even. They'll sometimes patch a patch or patch multiple times even after the next game has been released. Last time I checked, MW2 was up to patch 1.21 or something like while we've seen a single patch that apparently didn't take care of the Dragon Stone problem. I am not saying that FROM should do this because I understand patching takes time and money. Just trying to put things into perspective.

    However, in response to From invading players with leaked copies before release date, Bloodios mentioned:

    @Cantankerous_Flood
    I don't know, man. FROM probably only did that because the game was still fresh then. I mean, it's been a whole year since the last update. From that time until now, various exploits have been discovered, and videos detailing how to take advantage of them are literally all over YouTube. And yet, FROM didn't budge an inch...

    It's definitely not the game nor the developers fault, its the abuser's, and I think it'd be great for a griefer to encounter the "LORDRAN POLICE" because they were using a part of the game to gain an unfair advantage. Or maybe even there could be a specific branch of the Blade of the Darkmoon that could police (I'm not serious lol ) As a result, the PVP community would still probably diminish considerably because their accounts are open for the developers to see. So, so much for that. Prostration

    Clearly neither side could win this argument, because as Reim said, on page 4, it's a double edged sword. In fact, I might consider using it to quickly assemble my 7 Deadly Sins and 4 Horsemen cosplay/covenant (more on that somewhere else in the forum), but NEVER to grief. I even have WRATH utilizing the dragon stones. I refuse to abuse. No matter how many times I lose a PVP battle (which is sadly around 80 to 85% of all my duels), no matter how many times I get frustratated about losing fairly or to a griefer/ganker, I refuse to abuse the system to get ahead. I am not pointing fingers by any means, but if anyone does abuse, you are essentially helping the problem go through the cycle of non-griefer turned griefer because he/she was griefed.

    Slightly off-topic: This is actually the first I've heard any sort of talk on a PVP arena with the upcoming DLC. I'm assuming it's true, but could someone post a link to the article. I'm very interested in reading more about it. Thanks.

    EDIT: Sorry for the legnth. I lose myself in my rants. bounce


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by mr.lucaslion1000 on Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:50 am

    about the whole BB glitch i only recently learned about it, and i have only used it twice... however i only use stuff i could acutely get (starting use starter armor/weapons along with hornets ring or cloranthy ring etc etc...)i do wish it was patched since i don't really think to much of it. on a side note i noticed if i use boss weapons or near end game items in the begging i invade/get invaded by BB glitch abusers. and they just wreck me.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:57 am

    Again, given 2 hours, I could be griefing with a +10 large club, and full stone armor, using the one ring to fast roll everywhere. Griefers would go nowhere.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Rynn on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:08 am

    the BB.Glitch is a negative aspect of the entire game. If it got removed, i would not miss it. If you would quit purely because it was removed, i will not miss you.
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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:13 am

    For some people its not a matter of quitting cause its not there, its a matter of quitting cause they no longer have the time available to make the game fun for them. Im talking about people who like to make new builds and try them out often, have some variety. Without the ability to bring a bunch of gear over thats takes much longer, as they have to go through pve with a - Ill be back


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Rynn on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:16 am

    DoughGuy wrote:For some people its not a matter of quitting cause its not there, its a matter of quitting cause they no longer have the time available to make the game fun for them. Im talking about people who like to make new builds and try them out often, have some variety. Without the ability to bring a bunch of gear over thats takes much longer, as they have to go through pve with a - Ill be back
    and?
    That sucks for them. Those that wanted variety had the capacity to level up beyond level 120 to get more stats for more weapon setups. Instead they performed a glitch, and threatened to leave if a glitch was patched that makes them play normally.

    I wouldn't miss any of them... i wouldn't miss the divine blessings, or the inevitable reduction in general griefing population. Hell, even ganking would decrease in the total numbers, as a good 80% of the gankers would leave.
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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:30 am

    Not unless from killed their characters. There would simply be fewer NEW griefers.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Rynn on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:36 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:Not unless from killed their characters. There would simply be fewer NEW griefers.
    Griefers get bored. I've rarely seen the same low SL greifer for more then 4 days.
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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:41 am

    Rynn wrote:
    DoughGuy wrote:For some people its not a matter of quitting cause its not there, its a matter of quitting cause they no longer have the time available to make the game fun for them. Im talking about people who like to make new builds and try them out often, have some variety. Without the ability to bring a bunch of gear over thats takes much longer, as they have to go through pve with a - Ill be back
    and?
    That sucks for them. Those that wanted variety had the capacity to level up beyond level 120 to get more stats for more weapon setups. Instead they performed a glitch, and threatened to leave if a glitch was patched that makes them play normally.

    I wouldn't miss any of them... i wouldn't miss the divine blessings, or the inevitable reduction in general griefing population. Hell, even ganking would decrease in the total numbers, as a good 80% of the gankers would leave.
    Its no tneccesarily their fault 120 is the cap. And if they go too far beyond that they dont get the PvP they want.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Rynn on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:46 am

    Be the change you wish to see. If people hadn't just cowed down and let 120 be the cap, it wouldn't be. Enough people head to 255 and it will become a new "tier" for PvP, as would any other level. I've long been under the belief that all our problems, with X and Y being OP... it all stems from stupid stuff like the aformentioned level 120 cap. The BB-Glitch would hardly be "positive" at all if we didn't have a PvP level cap of 120, promoting interest in the continual remaking of chars, rather then the perfection of a single 1.
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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by SlakeMoth on Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:29 am

    This is an argument that will 'rynn and rynn', ( sorry Rynn couldn't resist the temptation) but at the end of the day it comes down to the individual's mindset. The BB glitch is just one more example of the 'I want it and I want it now' mentality whatever the cost.

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