BB Glitch must be patched

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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Bloodios on Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:53 pm

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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:54 pm

    Sorry, dwgr.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:56 pm

    You don't need to stop playing (that's just me who'd do that), you just wouldn't be remaking your characters every couple of days silly

    In terms of without the glitch for griefers I think though, while I get a lot of players know how to do what you're outlining, most wouldn't go through the trouble of beating four kings at crazy low level to get red eye orb just to troll and get bored after a couple of hours. Point is without the BB glitch there would still be griefers, but they would be far fewer in number. Take away their easy access point and make it more difficult as a deterrent.

    I know that's an option, but problem I've always found with the arena is it completely wrecks the way that online play is implemented in Dark souls.. It's meant to be woven in with the PvE and not separate, but an arena kind of blows that idea away.. Don't you agree?


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Heroez Blade on Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:57 pm

    If a new person starts playing the game and they dont like the invading than all they need to do is stay undead. Plus if one invasion causes someone to stop playing this game than that means they cant handle harder games.

    @ forum pirate

    I agree with you. i do not want to go through the game ???? times just to test builds. I also have fun with pvp even if i dont pve. I went through the game so many times it just gets boring doing the same thing over and over again. Thats why i like the glitch, it allows me to try new things without getting to bored with the game.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:59 pm

    Hero, I'd say it more so means they want nothing to do with the community. If the community just seems like it is full of terrible people, they probably won't want to try and play online.
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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Yukon on Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:59 pm

    I don't use a bb glitch because I think making a build is almost more fun than playing a build.. i don't find it repetitive because I am always using a new weapon/new shield or no shield and it changed how I have to react to the enemies.... that, and I hardly make builds that 'work' unless I get lucky/used to using them.

    That said.. the BB glitch doesn't bug me until I see a new player using it. Just awhile ago I was summoned a drake sword user for help fighting forest NPC's on my SL 20, later he asked for my help going through the game cause he wanted to make a new character, and he showed up with a bb'd stone giant/drake sword user in the burg..

    He then told me it was his first play through when I asked. Now its not a serious BB and its not my place to say how people should and shouldn't play the game but i'm going to anyway, and it was sad to see from my perspective of what the game is all about.

    Do I think it should be patched.. well yes, simply because it is not meant to be a part of the game. But, there are times where I can see its benefits. The arena idea that pirate proposed is a very logical work around to keep people both interested and happy.


    Last edited by Yukon on Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:01 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by BartholomewWenceslas on Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:01 pm

    I agree with serious here. The day I get tired of pve is the day I stop playing dark souls. I've played through up to Anor Londo probably 30-40 times now and I have fun with it every time. I'll admit, farming can be boring, but you can just listen to music or something to help out. Making the build should be part of the experience.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:03 pm

    Yes, but I can't have the best of both worlds. If anything, the bb is the closest to the best of both worlds, because I invade random questers and duelists alike, and the bb will finish a magicless build in 10 minutes, leaving me free to invade. Getting magic makes things take longer, but not more than 2 or 3 hours, unless its a pure caster.




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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:03 pm

    Heroez Blade wrote:If a new person starts playing the game and they dont like the invading than all they need to do is stay undead. Plus if one invasion causes someone to stop playing this game than that means they cant handle harder games.

    I get your position, but the fact is though they shouldn't have to get that trouble to begin with really. They shouldn't have guys glitching and raining on their parade just because of an exploited fault. If they wanna summon they can summon and get guys to help but I think invaders should at least have reasonable gear for their level.

    I said the same as yukon and that's just my position, it's not meant to be in the game so it should be patched. I dislike the idea of doing something that wasn't intended by the devs.. It's kinda like spitting on their work and telling them you know what's best for their game.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by ICEFANG on Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:06 pm

    I agree that it can be part of the experience, as everything comes together, but if I want to do it, then I will and I won't BB glitch. The time wasted on getting to Dragon rank +3 alone is so awe setting, even if I wanted to not glitch anything over, I would glitch my covenant level over (and then the torso, using it only when I got to the Everlasting Dragon). If you want to do it, that's fine, but I don't want to. It should not be removed, if you want to not get low level griefed, don't be human form. I don't intend to argue that they should remove everything but the BB glitch. You can't work to make your characters, once you finish your first character, you can glitch him as many times as you like, but you can never start a new character, muhaha!

    I think it needs to be changed though, in some way, only because its a glitch. I think they should just put it in the game completely. Heck at NG+, it could even ask if you wanted to start anew, with your old items, or continue onward. Or at least put in some way to lower levels, even if it was Gwyn.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Yukon on Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:07 pm

    I'd also argue that the problems with BB works both ways, in that a new player may be plagued by invaders, then summon a white/gold phantom .. and watch him steam roll the area. I don't know if its just me but I hate feeling like a fifth leg when I co-op there is nothing fun about running behind someone twiddling your thumbs and watching them lay waste to everything with their lightning weapon.

    So new players are almost forced to be extremely selective with summons and get insta-killed by phantoms while at the same time avoiding any innocent looking "Conan" summons.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by BartholomewWenceslas on Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:10 pm

    I don't think "don't be human" is a good solution to avoiding low level greifing. Invasions are intended to balance out summons so that you can make a boss easier, but you run the risk of being invaded. However, in the bell tower, unless you have a summon who also used the BB glitch, then getting invaded means you're dead. Co-op in this game can be just as fun as PvP, and some people (like me) prefer it. I do a lot of early game co-op at the bell tower, and having low level greifers there ruins the experience.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by ICEFANG on Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:17 pm

    If you BB glitch and use the stuff only when he comes and invades, then its almost the same silly, plus you can't assume he did the glitch, he may have gotten that stuff legitimately and then removing the glitch would remove your only chance of fighting him off.

    I love doing co-op more than invasions too. I usually BB glitch over, and when I save a completely new player (no achievements/trophies) with my, stuff that could have gotten legitimately, because you can't be sure I didn't get them legitimately, but happens to be glitched, from a low level, potential BB glitcher, but I can't know for sure, but its likely, I feel amazing. I love protecting the little guy. Being human, that's risk and reward right there. If people want to play online, they should be ready to be invaded by whoever it could be, just like how they could get someone amazing. The idea of co-op making the game easier, but not mindlessly easy, its impossible to balance out. I beat the Asylum Demon with my fists, using the broken straight sword as a shield, that was player skill, and no matter what weapons I use, if the host stood back and I wailed on him with just my fists, I would still make the fight completely easy. (Of course you can't online in Asylum, just an example).


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Heroez Blade on Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:19 pm

    Well whenever i bb glitch i always get my toons to 120 or higher so i have no problems with griefers or people that dont want to level up for some reason. I also agree with icefang, it takes forever to level up in some covs so i would wrather save the time of collecting 30 scales/medals/reprisals and just be able to get what i need and move on with my toon.

    @ icefang

    I agree. If someone wants to play online than they should be ready to face whatever will come their way.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Carphil on Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:38 pm

    ahh so much repetitive things to read...

    Edit: I agree with Barth on this one

    to @Heroez getting invaded is one thing, getting one shot and wasting all your humanity right after buying the game only because you wanted Solaire to help you out is another

    If you're going to invade burg, go with a drake sword as well. But then you'll have to face golden phantoms with lightning claymores.

    Now what makes me sad, is that the newbies will have no fun or experience whatsoever. They'll either watch super overpowered phantoms fight super overpowered griefers, or they'll watch Taurus demon being one shot right after entering the fog

    I loved my first playthrough, after killing the gargs, I went human for the rest of the run to see what happens. I remember being scared as **** at the depths entrance, trying to find a summon sign, then I managed to summon a nice guy with a drake sword as well, we both fought until we reach the bonfire, I could not lit and I was without estus, so that guy appears. Full havels, lightning zweihander. He one shot my phantom, go after me, I try to hide in Laurentius room, he appears and kills me too. We did not had a chance, I tried to get my bloodstain back but I could not handle the monsters by myself with that equipment, and I was even more afraid of going human to find help.

    To sum up, I defeat every boss by myself, hollow, and only went human again in the forest, after beating Nito.

    I had a great experience, but no online experience, and that was 60% of the reason I bought DkS in first place.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Bloodios on Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:00 pm

    The Bottomless Box glitch allows me to complete a playthrough without MURDERING Sif! That reason alone is more than enough for me to not want this glitch EVER be patched. From Software is a bunch of cruel bastards. They made it so that in order to complete the game, I have to murder and watch the poor creature's dying moment! Well, I say three times is more than enough! No more hacking away at the limping wolf!

    Not to mention the juicy bonus, I get to SAVE Anastacia without MURDERING Lautrec.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Azran on Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:45 am

    I think I would stop playing the game after Anor Londo if there were not BB glitch. The only thing that makes me overlook the lack of effort the Lord areas show is the fact that I can kinda skip them for the most part, since I already have the items in there.

    Would I play a game without BB? Sure, but I'd rather play a game where there isn't rushed content.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Cantankerous_Flood on Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:02 am

    Thank you everyone for your valuable opinions. Ok we got a lot of good feedback here and like I mentioned before, I completely see where both sides are coming from. Let me just mention a couple of things since I was away from my computer tonight after my second post here:

    First, I'm not crying over spilled milk, I would like to at least draw attention to the mess From left behind so maybe it'll get cleaned up.

    Secondly, I would have prioritized my glitch/patch rant if I even knew that the dragon stone glitch was still usable even after 1.05. I was under the impression that it was patched. Now I'm a bit leary about playing at all at least until the DLC comes out. But even still...


    Now that thats off my chest, stay a while and listen...

    All I'm saying is that Dark Souls is an amazing game that should be played how it is meant to be played. I understand there are always going to be griefers and people that'll take advantage of certain techniques but let's at least level the playing field. The game is hard enough for newcomers to the soul series as it is, let alone Dark Souls. Let's not ruin it for them. I was there when I bought the game the day after release date. I bought it because I was sick of getting ganked on FPSs and I wanted to try something new. I purposely stayed away from Skyrim because of the glitches and framerate issues. And I'm sure we've all been the newbies in our gaming chairs amidst a mixture of frustration, intrigue and awe at the level of pure satisfaction that came from the brutal difficulty of the game. That's the excitement and integrity I am trying to speak for.

    Agreed, i will stop playing altogether when i get bored of the game. By keeping the BB glitch, you remove the hunt. With that, you also remove the joy of the hunt. I myself have spent countless hours in PVE as well sometimes practicing and experimenting with different weapons and most of the time in New Londo farming for chunks. However, many of those hours were spent avoiding playing online. You're right, you cannot assume people are abusing the glitch specifically to massacre you unless they outright tell you, but like Serious and a few others have mentioned before, these glitches shouldn't even be a part of the game.

    I'm not sure if some of you remember this or if this is even new to you, but back before Dark Souls was released, some copies leaked and From actually invaded their accounts and ganked those players because they did not want anyone having an unfair advantage. As a result, i doubt From doesn't care about patching something like this (but my faith has taken a hit after learning that the dragon stone glitch is alive and well). Here's a link to the article for you non-believers:

    http://www.gamesradar.com/dark-souls-developer-has-nasty-shock-early-players/

    I like the convenience of the BB glitch, but there should be a PVE hour cap or ranking system that would make the glitch's abilities available to veteran players. Or have the folks that have arrived at said cap and keep them on a separate playlist so they can enjoy the benefits comfortably with each other as they test builds weapons armor etc. They could make the same thing but for only new players that have played under 5 to 10 hours (sum of all builds' time) but that would defeat the purpose of the game's "tough love" principle.

    That's all the argument I have without repeating myself. I look forward to seeing what everyone else thinks.


    Last edited by Cantankerous_Flood on Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:24 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Leeroy_Jenkins on Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:23 am

    this opinion may be outdated but i've always seen glitches to be somthing that adds replay value or makes the game more fun after you have played for a while or beat it I feel that the bb glitch does this well since you have to get the items first legitemently before you can bb them to a new character, and I think that the fact that bb glitching easier is not a problem at all they are obviously having fun griefing.
    dragon glitches not so much.
    ps: all threw ds and my first couple of dks run troughs i had no idea what greifing was i always just figured they were higher level and farther into the game I didn't know about lvl matching it wasn't until I joined the forum that I knew about these things. And in my own completely speculative opinion I don't think the bb glitch is a glitch.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:25 am

    It does deserve to be played the way it was ment to be, hence my refusal to help people who haven't beaten the game yet on the forums.

    But I've beaten the game a good 30 times. I'm no longer interested in playing pve at all most of the time, but in invading questers at sl 40 in sens and hunting players who venture into the pw. I can just bludgon my way through pve, no bb required because I know where to get everything. I'm only hunting in invasions, which the bb lets me do faster.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Bloodios on Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:25 am

    @Cantankerous_Flood
    I don't know, man. FROM probably only did that because the game was still fresh then. I mean, it's been a whole year since the last update. From that time until now, various exploits have been discovered, and videos detailing how to take advantage of them are literally all over YouTube. And yet, FROM didn't budge an inch...


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by isthefridge on Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:53 am

    BB is an easy way out for many. If I had known about it early on before a couple of my first playthroughs it wouldve definitely ruined the experience. I know a few players that havent gone pass O&S yet have multiple SL 120 builds and have no idea where to find key items. Not knowning how to get the Blue titanite Slab, or where the Great Scythe is located but having a fulling muled toon is shameful. It just truly spits in the face of those that fell off the crystal walkway several times, missed the steps to get the GScythe, explore half of ToTG before using a light source.

    Knowing the game as I do now. BB is so help full. I wanted to make a build based off DMB and SLB. In under 5 hours I completed NG and went far enough in NG+ to get the RSS, Dried finger, Lordvessel, rejoin DM +3 rank. couldnt be done that quickly if i had to worry about weapon and armor upgrades, farming.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by isthefridge on Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:08 am

    Heroez Blade wrote:Well whenever i bb glitch i always get my toons to 120 or higher so i have no problems with griefers or people that dont want to level up for some reason. I also agree with icefang, it takes forever to level up in some covs so i would wrather save the time of collecting 30 scales/medals/reprisals and just be able to get what i need and move on with my toon.

    @ icefang

    I agree. If someone wants to play online than they should be ready to face whatever will come their way.

    How is a first time player supposed to prepare for a BKGA Giants mother DWGR user? They can't.



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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by isthefridge on Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:19 am

    I think it should be patched, but I also think that in the patch, From should make some sort of way to create builds a little bit easier, maybe even make an option to reset your skills so you don't even need to make a new character
    [/quote]


    This is an interesting solution. but could also be exploited in the same fashion. maybe if the cost was greater to reset and even more so to lvl back up.


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    Re: BB Glitch must be patched

    Post by Gazman0169 on Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:59 am

    I haven't used it myself, but I can see the benefit of keeping the BB glitch, as it's value clearly lies in the realms of PvP, simply because we can now all create an exclusive PvP toon in minutes using the glitch that would of taken us days, and in some instances even weeks, of intensive play without it.

    I therefore say a resounding 'NO!' to the patch, simply because I fear doing so would pretty much kill off the PvP community as we currently know it.

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