Discussion on PvP changes

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    mattyice47
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    Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by mattyice47 on Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:14 pm

    i wanted to get some other opinions on how PvP experience could be improved. Some of my opinions are :

    Backstabs:

    Now i think backstabs add an interesting element into any pvp battle. it reinforces the idea of never let your enemy get behind you. BUT i have been playing some recent games where the person either rolled THROUGH my character only to stab me in the back, or was to the side of my character and made a backstab animation without even touching my character. Now these arent glitches that happen every once in a while. these can happen everytime if you dont expect them. A more limited window backstabbing may solve that problem

    Hits that are misses:

    Im not sure what to exactly call this, but ive had games played where i KNEW i hit someone with a light Black knight great axe. I knew bc i saw the blood animation and the other player groan. Now these didnt register as a hit so no hit points were taken. Is this some kind of lag? idk for sure. but i do know its annoying.

    AoE spells:

    I dont think these should be removed completely at all. but some should. for example. i dont remember the name but the opposing player kneels and everything remotely close to the player slows down to a crawl. This is borderline cheating. there is nothing you can do about it and the other player can spam you with spells or backstabs.

    Battle leveling:

    i was under the impression that youo could only invade people that are 10% above or 10% below you. I am a memember of the darkmoon covenant. I invaded a world recently of a player that couldnt have been above level 50. I am level 124. I feel bad whenever that happens bc its not fun for anyone. i dont enjoy k.oing someone in two hits and the other person deff doesnt either.

    These are a few of my thoughts. WHat do you think? thanks.


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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by Tristan on Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:27 pm

    mattyice47 wrote:i wanted to get some other opinions on how PvP experience could be improved. Some of my opinions are :

    Backstabs:

    Now i think backstabs add an interesting element into any pvp battle. it reinforces the idea of never let your enemy get behind you. BUT i have been playing some recent games where the person either rolled THROUGH my character only to stab me in the back, or was to the side of my character and made a backstab animation without even touching my character. Now these arent glitches that happen every once in a while. these can happen everytime if you dont expect them. A more limited window backstabbing may solve that problem

    Hits that are misses:

    Im not sure what to exactly call this, but ive had games played where i KNEW i hit someone with a light Black knight great axe. I knew bc i saw the blood animation and the other player groan. Now these didnt register as a hit so no hit points were taken. Is this some kind of lag? idk for sure. but i do know its annoying.

    AoE spells:

    I dont think these should be removed completely at all. but some should. for example. i dont remember the name but the opposing player kneels and everything remotely close to the player slows down to a crawl. This is borderline cheating. there is nothing you can do about it and the other player can spam you with spells or backstabs.

    Battle leveling:

    i was under the impression that youo could only invade people that are 10% above or 10% below you. I am a memember of the darkmoon covenant. I invaded a world recently of a player that couldnt have been above level 50. I am level 124. I feel bad whenever that happens bc its not fun for anyone. i dont enjoy k.oing someone in two hits and the other person deff doesnt either.

    These are a few of my thoughts. WHat do you think? thanks.

    Backstabs do need to be changed.

    The AoE spells have already received a huge nerf and I feel they are counterable at this point. Technically I thought they were counterable before, but they have most certainly become less useful.

    WoTG's is easier to dodge.
    TWoP has less duration and a shorter range. (the one you mentioned)
    VoS has a shorter duration.
    Karmic Justice is just flat out loltastically balanced.

    Hit misses are probably lag which isn't patchable.


    Last edited by Umbassa Zealot on Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by Domassus on Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:34 pm

    The bs from the side are just lag stabs. They just happen sadly. Sometimes they aren't intentional. The problem are the people who fish for them all the time. I try to look for when people running at me who get close and look like they're running at you sideways. Generally means they're trying to circle you and you can actually quickly strafe into them for a counter bs. Hard to explain but check out YouTube.
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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:44 pm

    Most of those are just connection issues really, as well TwoP is the only one that is an issue. But that's if they are at your spawn, otherwise it is avoidable. Darkmoon invade downward, so that's because of your covenant. If you just want to invade your level and up, you'll want to be a Dark Wraith.
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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by Tristan on Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:47 pm

    Tolvo wrote:Most of those are just connection issues really, as well TwoP is the only one that is an issue. But that's if they are at your spawn, otherwise it is avoidable. Darkmoon invade downward, so that's because of your covenant. If you just want to invade your level and up, you'll want to be a Dark Wraith.

    How far down?


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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:48 pm

    SL 1.
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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by Domassus on Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:48 pm

    Tolvo wrote:Most of those are just connection issues really, as well TwoP is the only one that is an issue. But that's if they are at your spawn, otherwise it is avoidable. Darkmoon invade downward, so that's because of your covenant. If you just want to invade your level and up, you'll want to be a Dark Wraith.

    I hate when people camp with twop. Whenever I see anyone pull out a talisman and kneel I backpedal like mad til I see what they cast. If its twop I just run for the duration. If its karmic justice I joy gesture as its lulz.
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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:49 pm

    Twop is not terribly difficult to deal with because it's such a short duration, its actually my biggest weapon against spear using roll pokers.

    I don't think I'd change anything, except narrowing the backstab hitbox by 30%, but I'm not sure I would even do that.


    No limit down, but it searches for players near your sl first. In my experience, I rarely invade below 20% down.


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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by Tristan on Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:50 pm

    Tolvo wrote:SL 1.

    I don't think i've ever faced an opponent lower than 15 levels?


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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:51 pm

    As forum says, it tries to connect you with whoever is closest to your SL. So it's rare to invade such low levels, but possible.
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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:53 pm

    I invade more than 20% down very rarely. It searches for players within 10% of the dms sl before it searches down.

    Also, dms invade up as well, but its limited.


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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by Tristan on Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:55 pm

    This puts a whole new spin on my Dark Moon character. Wow! So I can technically level as high as I feel like it and there is literally nothing the guilty can do about it?


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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:57 pm

    Forest Hunting is a bit better for high level PvP. Because their invasion just has no SL limit, they invade SL1-713.
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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by ICEFANG on Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:00 pm

    I think the biggest issue isn't really backstabs, its rolling. When you roll you are invincible, if it was designed so that rolling didn't make you invincible, only to avoid being hit. I mean heck, if you got hit when you tried to roll through an attack, backstabs wouldn't be a problem (WotG would be though, as well as lagstabs, but you can't change that). I also think they could use a few protections against backstabs. Like, shields on your back protect you from it to a degree, only if their shield is up or if they attack or if they aren't moving or when they are running from you could you do it. I mean backstabs are really important, and I don't think extremely overpowered, but they are really overused because hitting someone head on is so unlikely when they handspring on to victory all the time. All spells should have a cooldown based on the spell. WotG is fine, Combustion is fine, every spell is just fine, as long as you don't get too spammy with it. All spells should have a cooldown, which could be modified based on your ATT, which would give it more purpose.

    The battle where you invaded a lower level happens sometimes, but its fairly common as a blue phantom. I wouldn't worry about that, you are punishing his sin!

    I also have to add, that as long as your shield is good, TWOP isn't bad unless they spam WotG at you, you can literally just keep your shield up and keep walking back and they cannot stop you.

    While I'm at it, I have other things I think should be changed...

    I think DEX should modify your rolling speed, to give builds the ability to poke and be fast, because DEX weapons are usually weaker than STR weapons are (at this time, without BS's, they are usually better, but...)

    I also think STR should modify your swing speed, to give STR weapon users the ability to hit their faster opponents.

    For both changes, the larger the potential change, the more it should happen, for example, a Painting Guardian's Sword already hits fast, it would hit faster with 99 STR, but in comparison to its starting speed, it wouldn't be too great, while a Demon's Great Axe attacks really slow, it would gain more as a percentage with 99 STR. Rolling would be the same way.

    I dunno about Resistance, in some ways, I want to make it like this:
    Increase your defense by 2 points for each level, flame by 3 (which would decrease over resistance, diminishing returns), and this value is independent of your SL, so it has value, it also increase bleeding and poison resistance, instead of END doing bleeding and RES doing poison.

    However, that would really water down PvP at 120, so for that reason I would rather just give END poison resistance (since RES does so little right now anyway) or perhaps VIT. If it was option one, I would nerf the bleeding on many weapons, and remove many weapons bleed effects so it was less common like poison. I prefer option one, but its really too hard on PvP 120 right now.

    I would probably remove Chaos weapons, and buff fire and lightning weapons, as well as give them scaling to your SL, to a maximum of 50. This would really reduce low level invasions effectiveness, but at 50 and higher, they have the same power they do right now. I would do this with Pyros too.

    I would remove Magic (+6-+10) weapons, and buffs Enchanted weapons (so they have some use), I would buff Divine and Occult by making they actually work on invaders or hosts. I would just remove Raw weapons cause they're dumb, even if they went to +10. I would Reduce Crystal durability to 5 or 10, but also make them repairable. I would change a lot of little things too, buff some rings, remove SOME OTHER rings...

    That's kinda it in a nutshell. But these are just my opinions.


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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:02 pm

    Umbassa Zealot wrote:This puts a whole new spin on my Dark Moon character. Wow! So I can technically level as high as I feel like it and there is literally nothing the guilty can do about it?
    You won't invade often, even by dm standards (they invade less frequently than wraiths) but you could yes. I wouldn't except to get more than 1 invasion every 10 minutes at 713.

    It won't save you anyways, a good sl 80+ build can/will win anyways, you'll just be more versatile and have more hp. An advantage for sure, but its not going to win you matches against better players.


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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by Tristan on Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:11 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:
    Umbassa Zealot wrote:This puts a whole new spin on my Dark Moon character. Wow! So I can technically level as high as I feel like it and there is literally nothing the guilty can do about it?
    You won't invade often, even by dm standards (they invade less frequently than wraiths) but you could yes. I wouldn't except to get more than 1 invasion every 10 minutes at 713.

    It won't save you anyways, a good sl 80+ build can/will win anyways, you'll just be more versatile and have more hp. An advantage for sure, but its not going to win you matches against better players.

    it's just that I want to use specific strategies that I would need to go slightly above the pvp cap to achieve. I don't necessarily op on someone. It's more about how I want to play.


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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:14 pm

    Your invasion rate will probably drop some, but if you invade in the burg or use the rss, you'll get invasions at or near your sl fairly frequently.


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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by Tristan on Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:28 pm

    Ah, I see. Thank you for all the help.


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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:35 pm

    I try. I'm dm exclusive so I'm pretty good with the mechanics.


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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:07 pm

    I found the darkmoons who just keep lvling up(i think most stop at like 225) invade in dark anor londo. It sucks when you get invaded by someone with 12 casts of wrath and 45dex with a katana buffed with dark moon blade +3 that can 1-3 shot most builds. I think they need to rethink the whole lvling cap for the next game, hopefully the arena in the dlc has some options for searching for matches. From some of the pictures it seems like there is no host, both players appear as if they're hosts. Here this is what i mean.
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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:29 pm

    In dark londo more than half my invasions at 120 are against sl 200+ players. Its the same as the forest, no rules, just war.


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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by mattyice47 on Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:19 pm

    yes. i agree with scaling weapon speed. it makes sense. You level up strength based weapons with more strength, maybe lessening the amount of stagger for a miss, and dex weapons with faster combos


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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by Jansports on Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:37 pm

    FruitPunchNinja wrote:I found the darkmoons who just keep lvling up(i think most stop at like 225) invade in dark anor londo. It sucks when you get invaded by someone with 12 casts of wrath and 45dex with a katana buffed with dark moon blade +3 that can 1-3 shot most builds. I think they need to rethink the whole lvling cap for the next game, hopefully the arena in the dlc has some options for searching for matches. From some of the pictures it seems like there is no host, both players appear as if they're hosts. Here this is what i mean.

    It's not the Level cap that's the issue (my friend is at 589 and plugging along in Ng+7 because PvE and completionism is his only joy in life) The issue is more with how invasion mechanics work
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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by mattyice47 on Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:46 pm

    another thing i thi nk should be added is a cool down period for sorcery and pyromancy, not too large, even like a few seconds, bc i cannot tell you how many times ive been going toe to toe with someone and they are one hit away from dying and just spam some sort of ice beam or the one where pillars of flame come out of the ground randomly.


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    Re: Discussion on PvP changes

    Post by RailBladerX on Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:26 am

    I want True Dual-wielding Combat.

    not the gimmicky utility it is now.

    don't say their is, you are only making fun of yourself or being a troll.

    and don't say it would OP.. when (just like everything) if done correctly it wont be.

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