Any benefit of fast rolling?

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    reim0027
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    Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by reim0027 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:28 pm

    Ok, so I don't want to talk about the DWGR. Too many topics about that.

    The question I have is there any tactical benefits that fast rolling has over ninja flipping?


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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:31 pm

    Its faster. This means rolling attacks, especially for weapons like the large club that depend on them, are faster as well, which makes them tougher to dodge and easier to use as an offensive technique or punish than the beiber ring handspring would allow.


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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by Domassus on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:32 pm

    Faster roll bs too and I like it over ninja flip for that. Always go too far and whiff flipping.
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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by reim0027 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:35 pm

    Faster roll BS? That's good to know.

    Does this compensate for the lack of i-frames?


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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by Joichiro on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:37 pm

    the flip animation it's quicker and better, hands down. However, i prefer the fast roll animation because i don't like the dwgr and for stylish propose
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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:40 pm

    If you know where the iframes are, it does reim. Will take a bit of getting used to if you don't.

    @Chrio you're wrong. The animation is longer for the handspring, and it covers a greater distance compared tho the fast roll animation.


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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by reim0027 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:40 pm

    Forum and Dom are saying it is faster and better at roll BS. Jo, you are saying that it isn't?


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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:42 pm

    I didn't say better, as a dodge the handspring is decidedly easier to use, but as an offensive tool, the fast roll wins out.


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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:44 pm

    Ok seriously guys, its not better for roll bs. I get you dont want the dwgr changed, but thats just false. Honestly reim there isnt much of a benefit, the jump back attacks are a bit faster. As for the roll being faster, its not really that much of a benefit. It travels a shorter distance, thats why its shorter. I would say the major benefits would be the quicker jump back attacks and the way roll r1s tend to work a lot better with particular weapons.
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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by DamageCK on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:48 pm

    THESE ARE PERSONAL PREFERENCES STEMMING FROM A SUBJECTIVE ANALYSIS OF FAST ROLLING, Reim:

    Looks way cooler.

    Faster backstep R1.
    Faster rolling R1.

    Less i-frames WILL make you a better player. This is arguable if you use the DWGR, since you can i-frame anything, but it's not as though the DWGR=impervious to damage. I occasionally get caught by WoG even with the DWGR, but if you can fast roll dodge it, you can definitely DWGR dodge it.

    IN MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, when I run into a low poise/fast roll player, they tend to be more skilled in terms of purely technical gameplay than a poise/vit build. I do not fear the Giant/MoM because I AM FAMILIAR WITH THAT BUILD. But when someone is running around unlocked, clearly confident enough to play without the cushion that poise provides, that's when I choke up on the controller and really focus.

    Toggle escape parries. You WILL NOT expect low poise players to do this as most of them don't/can't/haven't even considered it. But when it happens, you'll understand just how misleading a no poise build can be.

    Now, I'll be the first to say that I could create a list of "no poise deficits" at least twice as long. But playing without poise, that is, to abandon the method of simply TRADING damage


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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:50 pm

    @friut I didn't say better. He asked for benifits, I stated them. Neither did the other guy say better. He said faster roll bs not better, and thats true as well.

    Which roll I prefer is dependant on my weapon.


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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by DamageCK on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:53 pm

    reim0027 wrote:Forum and Dom are saying it is faster and better at roll BS. Jo, you are saying that it isn't?

    You can execute a roll BS more quickly since the complete dodge animation is shorter with fast roll. As for the argument that the DWGR allows you to travel further, thus making it easier to roll BS is irrelevant since you can simply adjust your spacing and it becomes a non-issue.


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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:57 pm

    Exactly. I make no claim that either is better than the other. Thats not what the thread is about. Its about the benifits of the fast roll over the beiber ring, if present.



    Incidentally, the lower your equip burden below 25%, the faster the fast roll is, so a naked dragon with a rapier is going to be able to roll bs you faster than the guy in full knights with a washing pole.


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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by DamageCK on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:59 pm

    DamageCK wrote:THESE ARE PERSONAL PREFERENCES STEMMING FROM A SUBJECTIVE ANALYSIS OF FAST ROLLING, Reim:

    Looks way cooler.

    Faster backstep R1.
    Faster rolling R1.

    Less i-frames WILL make you a better player. This is arguable if you use the DWGR, since you can i-frame anything, but it's not as though the DWGR=impervious to damage. I occasionally get caught by WoG even with the DWGR, but if you can fast roll dodge it, you can definitely DWGR dodge it.

    IN MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, when I run into a low poise/fast roll player, they tend to be more skilled in terms of purely technical gameplay than a poise/vit build. I do not fear the Giant/MoM because I AM FAMILIAR WITH THAT BUILD. But when someone is running around unlocked, clearly confident enough to play without the cushion that poise provides, that's when I choke up on the controller and really focus.

    Toggle escape parries. You WILL NOT expect low poise players to do this as most of them don't/can't/haven't even considered it. But when it happens, you'll understand just how misleading a no poise build can be.

    Now, I'll be the first to say that I could create a list of "no poise deficits" at least twice as long. But playing without poise, that is, to abandon the method of simply TRADING damage

    I had some other things to say following the abrupt closing there, but.... I'm super drunk, guys. So, you know, cut me some slack. I think I was basically just going to say that fast rolling will help you to up your game for the simple fact that you can't i-frame any/every attack.


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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:00 pm

    It was worded as if you thought it was easier to preform. It is a bit faster, but one thing i really wish i could test which i cant cause its something thats kinda hard to see. Is if the speed reduces the more armor you wear.Is a naked fast roll the same speed as someone at 25%? Ive tryed to see if i could tell, and it honestly does kinda seem that way, but its hard to prove without some type of video testing where you slow it down and time it. I dont have the tools available to try that.. I know epicnamebro mentioned he might be doing a test video similar to the stamina one he did, on the different rolls. I'm excited to see what he comes up with, he is very thorough.
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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:01 pm

    you answered my question?! lol

    edit: i knew someone had to of tested that correctly at some point.
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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by Carphil on Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:04 pm

    You can fat roll through a WoG... actually you can fat roll and dodge everything, its just, timing is more necessary than just press O with your eyes closed.

    I agree with Damage, makes you a better player in terms of skill.

    The difference between the light roll and DWGR is mostly the backstep, and the roll is shorter.

    Mid roll ftw!


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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:08 pm

    It is faster as weight decreases, saw video proof. Posted here actually. I'll see if I can find it.

    I try not to use absolutes like better in reference to things like this. Better is a subjective term, so to state something is better is almost always incorrect.

    One could argue that the decreased i frames of the regular rolls only matter as long as you continue to use them, as timing is not terribly rellivant with the beiber ring, as far as dodging goes.


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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:11 pm



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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:13 pm

    I get what you mean forum, and i didn't mean to be negative towards your opinions. I've said this before, but i think we both just like to debate. I will admit i do like to debate, and you are always well informed so debating with you is interesting.

    I should have joined the debate team in high school xD too bad i have no hope for politics in my country xD
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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:15 pm

    Thanks, that was one of the things i always wanted to know. It seemed that way to me, but its so hard to tell you cant really prove it without a video like that.
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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:15 pm

    What it does appear to beat the ninja flip convincingly in is on the roll BS. It was made for that move.

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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:20 pm

    That's all I've got for benifits reim, and noones posted any others. It seems the choice is Iframes or speed just as far as the rolls are concerened.


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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by ICEFANG on Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:25 pm

    It makes me feel cool, perhaps you will too? (that is a benefit, before anyone says otherwise, state of mind is important!).


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    Re: Any benefit of fast rolling?

    Post by reim0027 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:36 pm

    Ok, so for roll BS, it is better, and is faster with lighter armor. That's perfect. Thanks.


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