Shieldless vs. Vit Gouging

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    Ciledaknuf
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    Shieldless vs. Vit Gouging

    Post by Ciledaknuf on Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:55 pm

    I have a 120 pyro dex build that I use without shield, dwgr or ring of favor. I'm getting a bit bored of maxing.

    Here's the build: http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=1954675615817832

    Anyhow, I'm not having too much trouble with greatsword users, normal katana users, or others, I'm having trouble with spear users who just poke me to death behind a shield. I can't punish them with the distance with my BSS r2 attack, combustion is too short distance, fire surge barely scratches them, and fireballs aren't that reliable against defensive players.

    I've tried keeping my distance, but that plays right into their hands. I've tried up close, but they just block + r1 or ninja flip until they are at a safe pokey distance. I also tried barefisted parrying up close,... not very smart.

    Are there any adjustments to this build (without changing stats, changing rings, left hand pyro) or play style that I'm overlooking? The only thing I can think of and which I haven't tried is getting a shotel, rushing and hopefully just going to town on them.

    A lesser challenging build I deal with is the BKGA with BK shield which dead angles and difficult to get away from with fast roll as opposed to ninja flip. It diffuses pyro and if used defensively is very difficult to punish. Perhaps this one is just as challenging as the first...

    Another is the crazy flippy chaos blade user as their little strikes stun and cut off whatever pyromancy it is I'm doing, although it's not a stun lock. The roll r1 attack with chaos (not really other katanas) seems to get me from 10 feet away. Against this style build I win about half the time by keeping them at a distance and punishing their rushing with pyromancy. Still, I'm getting roll backstabbed way too much fighting this brand of playstyle.

    Thanks

    edit: I just saw Wyrm's Spear discussion Look Skyward anyhow, what would you do given this... build? Don't say die, Gonnies never say die.


    Last edited by Ciledaknuf on Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:11 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : possible thread duplication adjustment)


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    Re: Shieldless vs. Vit Gouging

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:33 pm

    I have a similar pyro build. I would obviously benefit from the dusks crown, but pyro starting hood and pants+ chain mail chest & thorn guantlets looks AMAZING on female toons. If i wear the dusk crown i use chainmail chest,black sorcerer gloves, and crystalized leggings. Also looks amazing on female toons. Also spears are low poise characters worst enemy.

    Heres mine: http://tinyurl.com/cuaxo23
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    Re: Shieldless vs. Vit Gouging

    Post by WyrmHero on Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:39 pm

    Haha what's wrong with my thread? On topic, the build is good, you really don't have to worry about getting HP if you are aiming for activating RTSR. I really don't have much experience with RTSR, except on a glass cannon. Is it better to have RTSR with high HP or low HP? I could guess high HP....


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    Re: Shieldless vs. Vit Gouging

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:41 pm

    I would say it greatly depends on if you WANT it to activate, or need it to. I personally dont like the red tear stone cause its pretty much a matter of luck on if you get KOed or get the rings effect.
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    Re: Shieldless vs. Vit Gouging

    Post by Ciledaknuf on Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:44 pm

    Nice build! Very dangerous! I'm assuming you meant 28 att and 45 dex.

    Yeah mine's female, I aso like the thorn leggins with chainmail too.I'm gonna try your clothes set up when I get home later. Is there a pic generator that works with the stats gen? That would be fantastic.

    My lady toon has golden skin with green hair... I thought it was cool at first, now she just looks like he has liver disease or something. Oh well... haha


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    Re: Shieldless vs. Vit Gouging

    Post by WyrmHero on Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:45 pm

    High HP (+1800) would mean getting it activated with at least 300 HP, meaning you could take at least 1 hit before you die. Low HP would mean it would get activated faster than high HP. Right?


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    Re: Shieldless vs. Vit Gouging

    Post by Maneater_Mildred on Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:55 pm

    @op if you get in and they are shield up spear poking try kicking, it will help a little against your average spear user.
    @wyrm yes lower HP's will activate faster, if it activates at all... As with low HP's you will sometimes get killed from above the activation point in 1 hit. High HP's are best for rtsr.


    Last edited by Maneater_Mildred on Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Shieldless vs. Vit Gouging

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:01 pm

    yea i meant 28 lol. My toon has white skin and a grey ponytail.
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    Re: Shieldless vs. Vit Gouging

    Post by Spife on Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:14 pm

    To further support higher hp vs lower hp, let's go beyond the limit of hp for a second. At 10k hp it would activate when you have 2k hp left, giving you a lot of room to use the ring. But at 1k hp, it would activate at 200 hp left, which is a very small margine to land in.

    Unless you were self inflicting the damage to pop the ring, high hp is the way to go.



    And now I want to toy around with a low vit invader build that either uses power within, or dung pies, or that mimic helm, like real low vit.


    Last edited by Spife on Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Shieldless vs. Vit Gouging

    Post by Ciledaknuf on Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:27 pm

    Thanks for the input!

    @wyrm, I felt that my thread almost was too close to yours so I felt like a dummy. So no, nothing wrong at all.

    @mildred, I suck a kicking. Thanks for the suggestion, that gives me something to work on.

    So, if no red tear stone ring, what should I have instead. I had wolf ring, but when I guess I got addicted to that crazy pyro damage with Dusk Crown, Bellowing and RTSR. Still I see the logic, high hp with RTSR trumps. I should changee.

    Any other possible alternative to wolf ring/RTSR other than the DWGR and RoF, or havels?

    Steel protection? Is that one very useful?


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    Re: Shieldless vs. Vit Gouging

    Post by WyrmHero on Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:30 pm

    You should get wolf or fap. I would choose wolf so that your pyros don't get interrupted. Or DWGR for some additional poise and i frames. Or fap if you don't mind having low poise and would prefer high HP.


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    Re: Shieldless vs. Vit Gouging

    Post by WyrmHero on Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:42 pm

    Oh yeah I didn't noticed you were talking abput spears here, I read too fast. Yes they are a pain, specially againt small range swords such as the BSS and kats. But BSS has good range, try rolling always close to them and use the roll poke attack and then the thrusting R2 attack. If they are turtling the best way is to 2 hand your BSS and spam R1 so that you break their guard. Poise backstab also works. 21 poise minimum for that.


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    Re: Shieldless vs. Vit Gouging

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:56 pm

    I usually just have a SKS or demons spear ready for spear users, its annoying having to switch though. If i have a spear as a main weapon in one of my builds its usually one of the normal +15 ones. Really though the best thing to beat a spear user is a spear, which is a pain.
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    Re: Shieldless vs. Vit Gouging

    Post by WyrmHero on Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:58 pm

    Exactly fruit. Keep a spear handy.


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    Re: Shieldless vs. Vit Gouging

    Post by RailBladerX on Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:06 pm

    not sure if this was stated, or even possible with the BSS, nor am i sure this advice will be of any help, but have you tried to dead-angle them?


    ive always hated shield users (even in real life S.C.A) but when i learned how to dead angel (if only you could dead angel in real life lol! ) i found most dedicated shield/pokers became much more manageable.



    For the BKGA turtle'rs i would just wait for an opening when they attack, and dodge counter attack them, or beat them after they swing. as someone who does like to use the BKGA i have noticed the lag time after an attack is much slower(when used 1 handed) after an attack since shield canceling isn't as effective as if used with 2 hands.


    Last edited by RailBladerX on Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:23 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Re: Shieldless vs. Vit Gouging

    Post by DamageCK on Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:16 pm

    This is probably the sixth version of my pyro build. Think I finally got it right. http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?b=cHlyb21hbmNlciw1MCwxOSw0OCwxNiw0NSwxMiwxMCw4LDk5LDIzLDAsMTQsMTEsMzEsMTQsNCw0NywxMTMsNTQsbm9ybWFsLG5vcm1hbCxub3JtYWwsbm9ybWFsLDAsMzMsMzAsMzgsMzEsMCwwLDAsMCwwLDAsMCwwLDAsd29vZGVuLHdvb2Rlbix3b29kZW4sd29vZGVu

    Clearly I don't know how to shorten links. Anyway, the reason I cranked end up to 48 is because (a) I don't need the points anywhere else, and (b) I can equip the Black Iron gaunts and greaves for 36 poise and still fast roll with my BDCR. That setup drastically improves defense, gives me at least the katana/spear breakpoint, and I don't have to sacrifice pyro damage by swapping the BDCR for Wolf. I just prefer the look of my Bruce Lee gear, so I really only switch to the BI gear for spears exclusively.


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    Re: Shieldless vs. Vit Gouging

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:32 pm

    I have found the 31 poise break point is just as viable as 53, cause toggling out of greatsword swings is rather simple. Dex/pyro and 30str/40dex builds are by far my favorites, no other builds have really worked as well for me. I'm personally just not into faith and magic although very viable is just not my style. Heres my two favorite builds, which i dont see changing unless dlc offers some really cool gear/spells. Oh and damage you click "minify" at the bottom to make the link small.

    http://tinyurl.com/chtusja (Blind Swordsman)Male

    http://tinyurl.com/bmsbq2d (Chaos Witch)Female....this isn't my exact build, but i might have to redo mine xD, they are all so similar but i like to try and perfect them.
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    Re: Shieldless vs. Vit Gouging

    Post by DamageCK on Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:48 pm

    We went in really similar directions on our pyro builds. I've found I really don't need more than 5 slots in a 1v1 though, especially if you can also melee. The only breakpoint you really need to worry about is at 31. Beyond that, like you said, it's simple enough to get out of.


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    Re: Shieldless vs. Vit Gouging

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:06 pm

    Yea i know i dont need so many att slots, but its really nice not running out after two fights. I'm lazy like that, plus if say im an invader in a world where someone is hosting fights i dont want to lose after 2 fights cause i ran out of casts. Plus sometimes i like to cosplay as a chaos servant and wear the full gold hemmed set and use only chaos pyro. Thats fun, but extremely challenging if facing skilled players.
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    Re: Shieldless vs. Vit Gouging

    Post by DamageCK on Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:10 pm

    I guess you could have an FC version for multiple fights and a "try-hard" optimized version for randoms.


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    Re: Shieldless vs. Vit Gouging

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:13 pm

    I do xD . Well i have the version i posted and then another with more str and less att, which i change often cause i dont need to go into ng+ for extra castings. Thankfully dex pyros are easier to make then say a faith build, where you need to plant the lord vessal and kill nito ext.
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    Re: Shieldless vs. Vit Gouging

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:16 pm

    I corner them. I'll straight flee from open areas (anything bigger than the burg "arena") untill I find a better spot, then keep right on them untill they try to dodge out of the corner, i hit them with gc as they exit the roll. In random invasions, i use fire tempest from around corners.


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