Red Tearstone with Karmic?

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    Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by IceIfrit666 on Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:05 pm

    Jokanda's question got me thinking about Karmic Justice.
    How much damage does karmic do on average and would the red tearstone ring affect the damage karmic does?
    Because if it does, it could be a great anti ganker spell.


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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by BLA1NE on Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:14 pm

    From what I've read of Karmic Justice, though, it's extremely unreliable. To get it to work precisely when the RTSR activates would be really rare, I think.


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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by IceIfrit666 on Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:21 pm

    My thought process here is "Get high health, put karmic and tear on, invade gankers, gankers attempt stunlock, explode."
    No idea if it'll work so I'm just asking here, but oh god imagine if this does work.


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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by DamageCK on Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:22 pm

    You'd have to go in with the RTSR already procced, then turtle with the Grass shield or something. Probably only really viable with RTSR, 50 faith, DM talisman, Dusk Crown, and Firstborn ring. It'd need to be a one-shot setup, since you can really only afford to take one or two hits at the most.


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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:22 pm

    I might have to test this....

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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by IceIfrit666 on Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:26 pm

    I might try this tonight or tomorrow actually.
    If I try it, I'll tell you how it goes.


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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:26 pm

    Ok. Didn't test with tearstone yet but here's what I have so far. It will trigger just as easily with a grass crest (presumably any less than total physical protection shield) as it does eating the hit. Plus you live. There's a significant build up and loss effect. Unless you are getting hit fast it won't trigger. Against three balder knights my fastest trigger was five hits. Same with a hollow soldier with sword and one crossbow hollow. Against heavy weapons you better have stamina. Grass crest helped but that means lowering the shield. With dusk crown, ring of sun's first born and 40 something faith (canvas talisman) I did around 300 damage. Pretty close to exact. Wrath of gods with the same setup did 600. With no extra gear karmic did only in the 100s. One interesting note. Karmic seems way more dependent on what the victim is doing. Against those enemies wrath didn't see a difference in damage even if the victim blocked. Against the Balder trio my first trigger of karmic actually did three different amounts. A blocking one only took 200 and change. The one who sparked it took 300 while one who snuck to my side took over 400. I believe he was mid swing aka prone

    From a single enemy it wore off without triggering

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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:55 pm

    About 200 damage without ring of the sun / crown of dusk. 50 faith. Damage is so low it's just useless.


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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by IceIfrit666 on Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:00 pm

    Well, it's useless.
    I'm posting my results anyways.
    50 fth. normal talisman and the enemies were the hollows next to the burg channeler.
    Normal-239
    Dusk Crown-300
    Sun ring-300
    Dusk with Sun-375
    RTSR-394
    All-583 (559 against Petrus)

    I thought I might've had something good going. sad


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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:03 pm

    You shouldn't test it with monsters, try using it against another player.


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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by IceIfrit666 on Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:06 pm

    I probably should've, but being the lazy turd that I am, I'll leave that to someone else if they want to do it.


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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:53 pm

    I barely had any time this afternoon but might pvp test tonight

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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:04 pm

    I remember when i was a noob i was just getting into pvp and was a forest hunter. I started using karmic justice thinking it would help when they all ganged up and stated stunlocking me. It worked ONCE, cause this pack of gankers was basically trolling me, all three surrounded me with their shields up and just rapier poked me to death. I had pretty low vit, but as soon as it went off i died.
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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by ChizFreak on Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:09 pm

    ChizFreak in other post wrote:PRO TIP: Best way to trigger it is by using a shield that blocks less than 100%
    phys damage and blocking consecutive hits. It could also combine well if
    you're practicing parrying.

    Also it's suppose to be useful for the knockdown in provokes, not because of the damage. A WoG it's faster and more damaging.

    Detail: I believe it triggers only with phys damage.


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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:40 pm

    I'm pretty sure it doesn't have to do with the type of dmg, but i haven't tested so i cant say. I think its just consecutive fast hits that set it off, which makes me think that its purpose was intended for players who have zero or very little poise. If someone starts stunlocking you with a rapier or katana it would go off, i dont know that kinda sounds right.
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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:52 am

    I found me a little karmic secret tonight. Makes it VERY interesting at the right time.

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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by ICEFANG on Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:01 am

    So what is the secret then?


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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:13 am

    I'll give a hint, the key is what I discovered and posted earlier today. Also, any damage or PERCEIVED damage counts. Your life bar doesn't need to go down assuming a "hit" registered.
    Spoiler:
    Don't wanna guess? Rolling through homing or crystal homing soul mass will sometimes clip you without hurting you. Remember how I said five hits triggered karmic earlier. Ta da! Rolling through a soul mass cluster tonight I got an instant trigger of karmic, close to 200 damage with no ring or crown buff and absolutely flattened the guy. It happens so fast it's ridiculous. You can bet I was given more space after that

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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by ICEFANG on Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:19 am

    So it will destroy those Soul Mass users haha yes!

    Or do what I do and just run at them at an angle, they all shoot off and you laugh.

    Still doesn't sound worth it, its unfortunate that WotG really overshadows it, perhaps if it triggered on damage received in a short time, it would be better, or at least easier to understand.


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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:21 am

    The surprise element is hella fun. I also noticed a significant reluctance to approach me. So the power of phobos is nice

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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by ICEFANG on Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:24 am

    I know that Wolf Ring will overshadow (visually) Grass Crest Shield (or extra stamina regeneration). I know the Santus (or health regeneration will too). I also know that Karmic will overshadow them all. If there was a build that could hide the fact you have it on, it may work really well. Does the Red Tearstone or maybe Blue Tearstone cover it up?


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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:50 am

    No idea but can check tomorrow. Grass crest doesn't hide it completely but as a first hunter with green streaks from my chest, it's not as obvious as it could be. I was also flaunting the cast to instill fear.

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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by ChizFreak on Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:06 pm

    Sounds like a lag exploit.


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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:12 pm

    I-Frame exploit not lag if you're talking about my use of the thing.

    When I used it the fight had zero lag. Looked like it was a PvE fight. The trigger was because I was in an I-frame which is why I didn't take damage. It could actually be applied more consistently by raising your shield and making sure that there's contact since repeating can be difficult.

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    Re: Red Tearstone with Karmic?

    Post by Rynn on Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:23 pm

    FruitPunchNinja wrote:I'm pretty sure it doesn't have to do with the type of dmg, but i haven't tested so i cant say. I think its just consecutive fast hits that set it off, which makes me think that its purpose was intended for players who have zero or very little poise. If someone starts stunlocking you with a rapier or katana it would go off, i dont know that kinda sounds right.
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