the invisible statue "debunked"

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    the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by retro on Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:58 pm

    All the regulars here know about the missing statue, but just a quick introduction if there happens to be any new readers-

    In the Orstein and Smough boss room, there is a missing statue next to the statues of Gwyn and Gwynevere. From a lore perspective, it is widely believed to be the statue of the firstborn son of Gwyn. Because he had his status as a god revoked and was written out from history, it would probably make sense that they'd remove statues of him.

    However, it was discovered that the missing statue still had a 'presence', and was possibly just invisible, because you could shoot arrows at it and hit something.

    The 3D Map Viewer reveals that all the statues there have simple rectangular boxes for collision data, including the missing one:



    And a view of the single meshes shows nothing:



    What seems most likely: They probably designed the room to have three spots for statues and included rectangular blocks of collision data for whatever was going to be put in there. Then they only put in two statues and forgot to / didn't bother / didn't care about the collision data for the unused statue. I'm not saying the missing statue is unintentional from a lore perspective, but I am saying that there being an "invisible statue" with collision data is almost certainly unintentional.

    Without any in-game evidence to support theories of a possible meaning for the invisible statue or how it might reveal who that statue was supposed to be of, I think it's basically debunked and the burden of proof now lies on anyone who thinks it may still have a use or hidden meaning. Not everything in the game is intentional. happy

    screenshot credits go to Ellemennohpee and TheDarkLantern


    Last edited by retro on Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:45 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by BLA1NE on Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:50 pm

    The missing statue has an extra pedestal in its place, so it's unlikely From forgot about it. I don't think "didn't care" is a very plausible hypothesis either!


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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by retro on Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:12 pm

    BLA1NE wrote:The missing statue has an extra pedestal in its place, so it's unlikely From forgot about it. I don't think "didn't care" is a very plausible hypothesis either!
    Perhaps saying that it wasn't a big enough priority to worry about with the given time constraints is more accurate than 'didn't care'. happy

    I'm not claiming that the lack of a statue or the use of an extra pedestal is unintentional. I agree that it's likely they thought of a reason to have a missing statue (it being a missing firstborn statue seems like a very logical conclusion). However, I am saying that the statue being "invisible" and being able to be hit is what's unintentional.

    edit: It's more likely an artifact of designing the room to have three spots for statues and dropping in the collision data before perfecting the details. The game is far from perfect - it has mistakes in it, and without anything else going for it there isn't much reason to believe there's something like a magic spell keeping the statue hidden.


    Last edited by retro on Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:18 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by ublug on Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:16 pm

    Thanks. The full size collision box is probably unintentional, or leftover from a previous design, as you said. I'm not entirely sure the statue would show up as a mesh if it could be made visible, since it would probably be made as an object (like the gwyn statue in the darkmoon tomb, or the mimic chests). Also kind of strange that the collision for those statues are just a box, since most of the others have more detailed collision data, which corresponds to the shape of the statue.

    Since you are investigating the map and invisible statues, here's a few other observations:
    Of the other maiden statues, only the statue at the sunlight altar has a fixed (and detailed) collision box. The others (church, catacombs, firelink) appear to be empty, but your weapon will still bounce off if you attack them. The blacksmith's workbenches are also missing fixed collision data (beside Andre and by the petrified bs in the garden).

    Another thing that's bothered me since the game launched is the 'hatch' close to the firekeeper soul in Blighttown.

    There's not another area behind it, but it looks like it should be able to be lowered into the ground. If you look into the narrow crack between the 'hatch' and the grate, with binoculars or a bow, you can see what looks like a small box behind the hatch door. bounce
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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by retro on Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:28 pm

    That thing always looked suspicious to me as well. I've wondered if it's meant to have some kind of implied connection with the dead fire keeper.

    Baseless speculation: Perhaps the fire keeper used to keep another bonfire alive in the area. I can picture a fire keeper behind those bars like Anastacia. Maybe the thing to the left of it was something of use to the fire keeper, but without her it got covered up or became inoperable.

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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by User on Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:11 pm

    Firekeepers are bond to Bonfires. The difference between the ones you kill and the ones youharvest, is that they are located away from bonfires in general. If they held a bonfire before, the bonfire is now long disconnected and dead with their absence.

    All except for Velka's church has shown them being trapped in a location one reason or another. Even New Londo's Firekeeper.

    I am sure that they intentionally did not add a statue for a reason, which is probably that it is their for players to seek out and not so easily find by... Heh, 'cheating'.
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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by swordiris on Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:26 pm

    Anybody ever notice a really tiny door by the Sunlight alter? Always bothered me you couldn't enter the land of the dwarves by there or something.


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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:51 pm

    The news about the mesh is very sad indeed.
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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:52 pm

    Retro Tolvo pointed out the door in the catacombs has 2D writing designed to look 3D, so you cant change the textures to read it easier. Do you really think FROM would make a statue visible visible thorugh the collision data or the mesh? While Im not saying they did this on purpose, its likely. What Im saying is they left just enough clues in for us to know there should be something there, without giving us anything that allowed us to cheat findits identity.


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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:53 pm

    Hmm, I wonder if maybe it's just such a small amount of space in between, the letters could be 3d. I don't think so, but it couldn't hurt to check.
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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by BLA1NE on Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:56 pm

    It sounds like cut content to me. Like From intended to place statues of certain characters, or relating to their deities, or anything else. But because that character was cut, they cut their entire storyline and references. So instead of the statue of a deity, there's an empty placeholder collision box.


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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by Wilkinson3424 on Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:53 pm

    you guys do know that it was supposed to be gywndolins? and he probably purposely removed it when Anor Londo was abandoned, so no visitors would know he existed?


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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:03 pm

    Could have been the GoW, removed after his betrayal.
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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by mrbeckham87 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:27 pm

    Wilkinson3424 wrote:you guys do know that it was supposed to be gywndolins? and he probably purposely removed it when Anor Londo was abandoned, so no visitors would know he existed?

    This sounds pretty good...


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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:38 pm

    It's what I've been telling everyone (among other rumors)

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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by Buggy Virus on Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:00 am

    BLA1NE wrote:The missing statue has an extra pedestal in its place, so it's unlikely From forgot about it. I don't think "didn't care" is a very plausible hypothesis either!

    I doubt that. . .

    "Hey I furnished all of Anor Londo"

    "Dude, you forgot one statue."

    "Psh, I only painstakingly did the rest of it, down to the details of paintings on the walls, I'm sure no one will notice this."


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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by retro on Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:27 am

    lol. Again, I'm not saying the lack of the statue is unintentional, but leaving the collision data in probably is. Is it really that unlikely that they designed the room with three statue slots and included some basic hitbox data upfront, then while ironing out the details decided on a 'removed' statue but left the collision data in?

    -Miracle resonance doesn't work on PS3.
    -There are multiple typos, incorrect information on loading screens.
    -The boulders in Sen's glitch and double in co-op, or if it was intentional they overlap and look weird.
    -Rats and Frog Rays fall through the floor often.
    -In some spots, there are invisible walls in illogical places that make it difficult to use projectiles.
    -There is unused dialog and there were 'last second' changes made to the game.

    There was LOT of care put into Dark Souls, and the amount of detail is incredible. But not 100% of everything in the game is intentional and was crafted to have an explanation through lore. The missing statue could be planned to help imply a clever backstory, but being able to hit it with arrows means absolutely nothing. There are accidents and oversights.
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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:31 am

    For instance, the re-use of character models in regards to Black Knights and Dark Wraith, in fact Dark Wraith bleed ash like the Black Knights too.
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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by retro on Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:36 am

    Tolvo wrote:For instance, the re-use of character models in regards to Black Knights and Dark Wraith, in fact Dark Wraith bleed ash like the Black Knights too.
    That's pretty cool, never noticed that!
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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:38 am

    Silver Knights are similar, except they have white magic that comes out of them like ash, possibly hinting at the true state of Anor Londo.
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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:39 am

    What about the ones that dont disappear when it goes dark?


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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:39 am

    I think the same, but I'm not sure.
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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by raecor14 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:05 am

    ublug wrote:Thanks. The full size collision box is probably unintentional, or leftover from a previous design, as you said. I'm not entirely sure the statue would show up as a mesh if it could be made visible, since it would probably be made as an object (like the gwyn statue in the darkmoon tomb, or the mimic chests). Also kind of strange that the collision for those statues are just a box, since most of the others have more detailed collision data, which corresponds to the shape of the statue.

    Since you are investigating the map and invisible statues, here's a few other observations:
    Of the other maiden statues, only the statue at the sunlight altar has a fixed (and detailed) collision box. The others (church, catacombs, firelink) appear to be empty, but your weapon will still bounce off if you attack them. The blacksmith's workbenches are also missing fixed collision data (beside Andre and by the petrified bs in the garden).

    Another thing that's bothered me since the game launched is the 'hatch' close to the firekeeper soul in Blighttown.

    There's not another area behind it, but it looks like it should be able to be lowered into the ground. If you look into the narrow crack between the 'hatch' and the grate, with binoculars or a bow, you can see what looks like a small box behind the hatch door. bounce
    this thing has bothered me so much, its like its mocking me.


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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by Federally on Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:53 am

    Gwynevere has an amazing rack :face: wait what are we talking about?


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    Re: the invisible statue "debunked"

    Post by Federally on Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:55 pm

    retro wrote:All the regulars here know about the missing statue, but just a quick introduction if there happens to be any new readers-

    In the Orstein and Smough boss room, there is a missing statue next to the statues of Gwyn and Gwynevere. From a lore perspective, it is widely believed to be the statue of the firstborn son of Gwyn. Because he had his status as a god revoked and was written out from history, it would probably make sense that they'd remove statues of him.

    However, it was discovered that the missing statue still had a 'presence', and was possibly just invisible, because you could shoot arrows at it and hit something.

    The 3D Map Viewer reveals that all the statues there have simple rectangular boxes for collision data, including the missing one:



    And a view of the single meshes shows nothing:



    What seems most likely: They probably designed the room to have three spots for statues and included rectangular blocks of collision data for whatever was going to be put in there. Then they only put in two statues and forgot to / didn't bother / didn't care about the collision data for the unused statue. I'm not saying the missing statue is unintentional from a lore perspective, but I am saying that there being an "invisible statue" with collision data is almost certainly unintentional.

    Without any in-game evidence to support theories of a possible meaning for the invisible statue or how it might reveal who that statue was supposed to be of, I think it's basically debunked and the burden of proof now lies on anyone who thinks it may still have a use or hidden meaning. Not everything in the game is intentional. happy

    screenshot credits go to Ellemennohpee and TheDarkLantern

    Dude you've been duped. 2nd picture is all wrong, Gwynevere is in Gwyn's left, empty statue on his right. So I'll say /thread debunked


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