The weapon subtlety thread

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    Ghadis_God
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    The weapon subtlety thread

    Post by Ghadis_God on Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:11 pm

    Alright, so after discussing the Gargoyle halberd with Tolvo last night on the forums, I realized how we notice the little things about weapons we have tons of experience with, the nuances that make us more effective with weapons that we've devoted hours to, and I really want to archive this knowledge. So pick a weapon you have a ton of experience with and tell us a little thing about it we probably didn't know. I'll start:

    Pike: You probably know about the pike's charging attack, that deals three consecutive hits in a straight charge, but the hitbox changes when 1h or 2h. When 1h, the hits start shortly after you hit r1, specifically the moment you lower the weapon. When 2h, the hitbox doesn't start right away. Your character lowers the pike, hunches over in a double-step, then charges, starting the hitbox.

    Halberd: The 2h r1's animation ends a tiny bit faster if you connect with your hit, making a landed hit harder to punish than a missed one.

    GSoA: Due to its length, I think this is the only GS that this can be done with. The 2h (haven't tested 1h but the hitbox seems smaller to me) running r1 can hit twice when running past the opponent to your right. It hits once when next to them, and the very backswing, the very last tip of the attack, can hit the opponent again if you have the perfect angle and are facing the right direction. Note that I've only pulled this off against mobs and not very often.


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    Re: The weapon subtlety thread

    Post by Gaxe on Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:18 pm

    The Dragon Greatsword R2 2H attack can hit a person twice if your swing lands on them and the blast hits them.
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    Re: The weapon subtlety thread

    Post by cloudyeki on Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:27 pm

    All hit boxes connect via the whole weapon, from start to end animation. This includes special attacks, such as the mlgs' r2s (when you 2h it and fling a wave, you can use the swing to deter a backstab attempt and even start a stunlock). This gives weapons such as the mlgs and the dss more surprises at close range.


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    Re: The weapon subtlety thread

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:29 pm

    Sweeping weapons change their elevation based on camera angle. So when fighting at different elevations it's possible to miss based on camera angle issues. Alternatively, you can use this to your advantage to hit someone from a ledge or a lower point when they aren't expecting it.

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    Re: The weapon subtlety thread

    Post by Ghadis_God on Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:07 pm

    It works somewhat with poking weapons too. You can definitely change the elevation fighting locked off, but it doesn't really help much.


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    Re: The weapon subtlety thread

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:09 pm

    Reserved: Murakumo.
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    Re: The weapon subtlety thread

    Post by DamageCK on Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:12 pm

    Yeah, Tolvo? How 'bout this?

    Mura: it pwns. So hard.

    Done.


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    Re: The weapon subtlety thread

    Post by BLA1NE on Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:39 pm

    About the camera thing:

    - The camera angle will affect your attack's vertical alignment. This works for all unlocked attacks (melee, bows, spells, etc.).

    - Your character's facing will control your attack's horizontal alignment. Whatever you want to aim for needs to be precisely in front of your character (easiest way to achieve this is to walk toward your target, that way you can be sure it's directly in front of you).

    The inverse is also true: your camera's facing has no effect on your attack's horizontal alignment, and your character's facing has no effect on the vertical.


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    Re: The weapon subtlety thread

    Post by DamageCK on Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:46 pm

    Biggest example of that is probably untargeted pyro. To get a good understanding of how it works toss some fireballs around. Or MLGS R2. Same mechanics.


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    Re: The weapon subtlety thread

    Post by BLA1NE on Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:55 pm

    When I invade with my troll build in Sen's, I like to shoot pots without switching to 1st person view. The camera = vertical and character facing = horizontal aiming is surprisingly accurate.

    Also, a good example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYaQYNSt4cQ - notice how he doesn't center his camera on Orny, yet his shots always go on target. He never changes is character's facing, though. And he changes the vertical aim of the camera once in a while to accommodate for his character's movement after each throw.


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    Re: The weapon subtlety thread

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:02 pm

    Bla1ne, absolutely. I only added the elevation tip and with sweeping weapons due to the dramatic nature of how those are affected. For instance with my Great Scythe, if I angle up with the arc I will hit all the way from my ankles on the backswing and finishing point, all the way well over my head at the apex. With a rapier or thrusting weapon you're only going to hit the point of attack but you're right that this can be changed as well. Great additions to expand the tip. It seems impractical but imagine the forest and chaos. You can lead a group to an elevation change point and (with a sweeping weapon) get them split up high and low via good maneuvering and still hit all parties with one hit.

    In Demons more than Dark (but also in Dark) you could alter your elevation with bows dramatically. By using the reticle, to get centered horizontally and then exit the zoom view and go to town with vertical camera exploits. Used to be able to shoot all the crystal lizards at the bottom of the lizard pit from well above their surprise range.

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    Re: The weapon subtlety thread

    Post by Uparkaam on Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:23 pm

    You can use off-handed parrying dagger to dodge arrows aimed at your head.


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    Re: The weapon subtlety thread

    Post by DamageCK on Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:31 pm

    Uparkaam wrote:You can use off-handed parrying dagger to dodge arrows aimed at your head.

    Huh? How does that work? And when would you use it?


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    Re: The weapon subtlety thread

    Post by Uparkaam on Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:50 pm

    DamageCK wrote:
    Uparkaam wrote:You can use off-handed parrying dagger to dodge arrows aimed at your head.

    Huh? How does that work? And when would you use it?

    When you parry with the dagger your character bends a bit during the parrying animation and the arrow flies over your head. This works only when their aiming somewhere around your head. Try it with the crossbow hollow in the Burg.


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    Re: The weapon subtlety thread

    Post by befowler on Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:04 pm

    skarekrow13 wrote:Sweeping weapons change their elevation based on camera angle. So when fighting at different elevations it's possible to miss based on camera angle issues. Alternatively, you can use this to your advantage to hit someone from a ledge or a lower point when they aren't expecting it.

    This is actually what makes the BSS sing for me. Its R2 thrust automatically tracks upwards if you are locked on a target above you, so it's comically easy to get below someone such as on one of the Anor Londo stairs and just stab them in the feet until they die. It'll go under their shield blocks, while 90% of their return swings (even big sweeps like the BKGA) go harmlessly over your head. It's borderline broken actually. You can also see what I mean by going after that lone silver knight archer midway up the stairs inside the cathedral. Approach him from below and you can repeatedly R2 stab him in the feet even if he's blocking, while his sword and even DSB arrows miss you.


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    Re: The weapon subtlety thread

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:51 pm

    slower heavy weapons, the zweihander r1 and large club 1hr2 for instance, will stun just long enough, if you're close and quick about it, to allow you to run behind the opponent and backstab them. This is assuming you poise break, so some weapons and attacks work better than others, but it is a truly devastating, and nearly unescapable, combination that virtually garuntees 1300+ damage.

    Use it sparingly, if the opponent sees it coming they'll likely have an easy time parying your initial attack due to the closeness required for this to work.


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    Re: The weapon subtlety thread

    Post by Ghadis_God on Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:10 am

    Great info so far, thanks for the input!


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    Re: The weapon subtlety thread

    Post by Tolvo on Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:11 am

    I'll ad the Murakumo tomorrow, when I don't have a headache.
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    Re: The weapon subtlety thread

    Post by WarriorOfBenOwnage on Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:45 am

    As a quick one, the Balder Side Sword has great range, decent damage, and good speed. But none of that is very subtle. But did you know that it has one of the fastest recovery speeds after hits in the game? That means you can strike quick, roll away, then go back in for another hit, and so on, or you can swing and then quickly parry the retaliating strike, or you can swing and then kick to stop BS'ers. The list goes on.


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    Re: The weapon subtlety thread

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:55 am

    ^ Just like Priscilla's dagger. Often you can land a couple hits then get away and still have enough stamina to run a marathon if you please

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    Re: The weapon subtlety thread

    Post by cloudyeki on Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:57 am

    Especially if you have lighter gear and some sort of stamina regen item >_>


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    Re: The weapon subtlety thread

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:00 am

    My p. dagger night was black iron and no stamina boost. Not even the sticky icky. Still had stamina for days. Like one of those "enhancement"commercials they play late at night


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