All right, I'm sayin' it...

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    All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by DamageCK on Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:15 pm

    Fastroll i-frames BLOW. I've been coddled by the DWGR. There, I f*ckin' said it. Revamped my dex/pyro build, thinking everything was hunky dorey. But jesus christ, man. It's like, I thought I was pretty decent at PvP, until I realized I was just dodging everything all the time. The DWGR has so many i-frames, you could probably dodge the apocalypes.

    Fast forward to my new build and I'm eating hits all over the place. If the other player farts in real life, I take damage. I'm that sh*tty with fast roll. I made the build in a certain way so that it kind of forced me to up my game, while still being able to stomp *** if it's used properly, but I'm just getting pooped on without all my glorious i-frames. I don't know how people play exclusively with fast roll. Props to you guys.


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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by Maneater_Mildred on Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:20 pm

    Keep at it and you will get the timing down better... The fast roll means you can punish missed attacks faster than a flipper, so well worth the effort to get better.


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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by swordiris on Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:25 pm

    Try slow walk. Now THATS hard to do lol


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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by DamageCK on Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:27 pm

    swordiris wrote:Try slow walk. Now THATS hard to do lol

    That's like, double damage from real life farts.


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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by nsane32 on Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:28 pm

    I med roll you just need to get used to it


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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by Carphil on Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:29 pm

    lol, imagine medium or fat rolling.


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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by cloudyeki on Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:30 pm

    Wanna know what makes that worse? 0 poise so you get stunlocked to hell and back big grin

    Keep at it, show them that you don't need a flipping crutch to be awesome!


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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by DamageCK on Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:56 pm

    Actually, it is zero poise. Or technically 7 with the Iron Bracelets, which is effectively zero, since you can't tank anything, including farts. My mindset is that I'm going to learn to stop abusing poise and i-frames to HOPEFULLY become a better all around player. But man is it disheartening. It takes some serious commitment to keep playing this way.

    On the upside (maybe the only upside) I'm pretty god damn boss at toggle escape parries now. I figure if I just keep on losing over and over, I'll either rage quit forever or just be super ballin' with no poise/fast roll. I saw this dude on Sansvie's channel. Holy hell, the dude is going in for an attack, instantly notices he's about to get stunlocked (40ish poise), toggle escapes THE VERY FIRST HIT and parries the next. That's so f*ckin' boss it's crazy. That's how I want to play. It's going to be a long, LONG road though.


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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by Knight Alundil on Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:58 pm

    I don't know why everything's about fast roll and flipping. I've got mostly medium roll chars and one fat roll char who's actually a beast.

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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by Carphil on Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:02 pm

    @Damage
    thats a pretty cool techinique, but you see, he wants to be stunlocked in order to parry, so he must take a hit. Since all my builds have low vit, thats not an option for me.


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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by DamageCK on Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:02 pm

    Depends on your weapon. If you can stunlock, then it doesn't matter. It's a whole different ballgame with dex weapons. And like I said, I've been coddled by the DWGR. It's the ultimate easymode in PvP, and I'm just now realizing how important that is.


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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by DamageCK on Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:06 pm

    Carphil wrote:@Damage
    thats a pretty cool techinique, but you see, he wants to be stunlocked in order to parry, so he must take a hit. Since all my builds have low vit, thats not an option for me.

    Nah, the guys isn't just standing there waiting to be faux stunlocked. He goes in twohanding a GS, sees the other guys swing at the same time and immediately toggles. It's sooo sick. Just search Sansvie+Garo. The dude does it like eight times in the same vid. Probably the single coolest/super pro technique I've ever seen.


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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:06 pm

    lol, fast roll is too much effort for me.. Means I'd be constantly rocking havels/wolf ring combo and be even worse at PvP than I am now.. streuth! :|


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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by RANT on Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:12 pm

    you gotta get the timing right dude, of course it doesn have less iframes than the dwgr which pretty much makes you invinsible. ive only been using fast roll for the last month or two and its actually really good, maybe get a weapons with some reach, i find that very helpful. on my warrior build the halberd and garg hal are pretty awesome and hit REALLY hard.


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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by DamageCK on Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:34 pm

    I'm starting out with a katana. Can't make the learning curve TOO steep, my man. Haha. Iaito/pyro is pretty good to start out with. I'm just eating hits where I'm used to i-framing through everything. That's the biggest issue.


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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:51 pm

    I just started practicing a little more with my dueling guy. Fast roll is harder to gauge but I was surprised at how much easier it was to move at them. Made my Priscilla's dagger easier to use

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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:59 pm

    People really do underestimate the difference, im not using dwgr for the same reason dmg. I actually have a pretty similar build im using to practice 0poise(well i wear iron bracelets also, it allows you to tank one 1h rapier poke cheers). I have gotten pretty good with toggle escapes also, and im improving. My build uses hornets, which ive been getting TONS! of hate for. I was actually taking out these flipping giant mom tanks very successfully. Some of them were getting so pissed cause i used hornets....Dude, i have 0! poise and about half the i-frames as you. You have 77poise, mom mask,dwgr, and mlgs or buffed katana or w.e your easy mode build uses.

    I do have one build left that uses dwgr, its a shiva build. I used it today in the burg, i really did feel untouchable. I had almost 5 matches in a row where i lost 0hp. Once you get used to the fast roll after a few months of only using that the dwgr just feels ridiculous.

    Edit: Also another thing thats REALLY helped me improve, not using grass or grass crest to increase stamina regen. It forces you to be more aware of your stamina,
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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by Ghadis_God on Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:12 pm

    It is a real pain, I got pegged by a lot of attacks in fast roll I would have normally dodged with the DWGR on. That thing really needs to be nerfed. I've always defended it, but after trying fast roll I realized how broken it really was.


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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by Jansports on Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:56 pm

    How fast can you run a SL1 to four kings? I practiced fast roll for a bit by letting the last two spawn then trying to stay alive as long as possible.

    I still think the 50% Burden is more of a big deal than the i-frames on the flip. 20lbs. is a big deal.

    One thing that irks me is actually toggling stun locks, as much ire as greatswords of various natures has caused the fundamental prospect of one of their upsides being shirked is a little deflating. In much the same way DWGR makes the "Choice" of lighter faster movment or heavier more robust defence superficial as you can simply have both, toggling the intended stun of *hard* hits makes poise a non issue when choosing your armor sets. The stat exists for a reason and working around it while it'll help you win duels (And I'm being honest it is not an easy thing to do the frame window seems tiny) It really is no different in function to the DWGR.

    DWGR: Makes decisions about weight limits superficial to the player, Intended stat mechanic functionally negated.

    Toggle Escapes: Makes decisions about poise levels superficial to the player, Intended stat mechanic functionally negated.

    I'm not being judgmental, personally I think anything you want to do to win, almost, is fine. Tentatively I dislike glitches in duels but I am aware a lot of the community feels toggle escapes due to their hard execution level are fair game. I merely wanted to point out as a community perhaps we should hold back choice words when describing players who choose to use as much as they can to boost their chance of winning, whether it be toggles, MoM, or even the DWGR that draws a lot of fire.
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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by Ghadis_God on Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:12 am

    Toggle escape is indeed a bit of an exploit, but it doesn't stop me from feeling cheap during duels. It makes lucky hits match ending, like when I dueled this superbly skilled host in the forest who took down 90% of my HP without even getting hit once, using 0 poise, a Bastard sword, and fast roll. I caught him with a laggy Mura hit and stunlocked him to death. I felt like I lost the fight rather than won.


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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:58 am

    I never use it unless I feel I have to.... which is rare seeing as most of my builds are lightly armoured ones..... personally I find it hard to get used to dodging everything......


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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:06 am

    Show films tile

    "The Man who Dodges the Apocalypse."

    Panning out show of a man sitting on a bench with ashes all around him, cut to a close up shot from below revealing his face to be Morgan Freeman, cue voice over.

    "You know everyone thinks the want to live forever, to last longer than any other. To be the last rather than just another. Living always seems like such a grand thing, until other fall. When you are left alone you can't help but curse yourself for having those thoughts. As if it was all your fault, rather than that bastard you call luck. To think, I was just playing with my grandkids yesterday."

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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by Ghadis_God on Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:15 am

    ^A massive figure appears on the horizon, silhouetted red against the setting sun like some kind of phantom. Cloth flutters on the stale breeze as the figure folds to his chest a white talisman. "No!" thinks Morgan Freeman. He lunges for that ring which served him so well in the past, its worn laquer giving it a smooth dark hue. As a massive wave of white light swept over the land, laying all to waste, he slips it on his finger. Suddenly his body feels so light, as if his burdens had been made as nothing. He felt younger than he had in years, invincible even. He tensed himself for one last flip as the wall of force drew closer, and sprung into the apocalypse.


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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by DamageCK on Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:45 am

    This is good ****, man. Hahaha.

    As for toggle escapes being a glitch... meh. I'm not good enough yet to consistently toggle the first hit, and I don't think many players are complaining about catching me at the edge of their hitbox toward the end of my role and getting at least one additional free hit. Toggle escaping is fundamental to playing with low poise. I'm sure GS users would love to just run around stacking poise and stunlocking everything that moves, and I've got no beef with that. I'm just not going to fall victim to it.


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    Re: All right, I'm sayin' it...

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:49 am

    Given enough time, you'll eventually start getting it on the first hit. Realizing your limitation is a big part in advancing skill wise, but actively overcoming the limitation is a bigger part of course. As I always suggest, try out sparring with a friend to figure out the timing, have him use a weapon that breaks your poise on the first hit, and try to toggle out. Figure out the timing, then go into a full fight and see if you can toggle out of every first hit they land.

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