Who is Gwyn's first born? I think I know....

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    Shkar
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    Re: Who is Gwyn's first born? I think I know....

    Post by Shkar on Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:57 pm

    JohnnyHarpoon wrote:I suppose he could be, but stripping somebody of deific status seems like it ought to have more repercussions than literally just you are not a God anymore. Considering how fearful Gwyn/everybody is of mere Humans, I doubt the GoW would be left with his power/memory intact - he'd just be too much of a threat if he ever sought revenge. Finally, literally every Undead in this game is immortal, so immortality doesn't matter - EXCEPT for the fact that the Gods couldn't kill him! This only leads me to believe more that he would be stripped of his power/memory, because they can't just up and kill him and be done with it.

    Now, this is purely my logical thinking, I'll admit...but if I had to exile a General in my army, I sure as sh*t wouldn't let him keep the nukes, ya know?

    The only source we have that the gods feared the humans is Kaathe, and almost everyone agrees that the serpents can't be trusted. Even if the serpents could actually be trusted, you NEVER trust someone's statements about their opponent. In politics, if yuo believe what the parties say, NEITHER side looks competent enough to run a 7/11, let alone a country. For all we know, Gwyn went to link the fire to PROTECT us. Hell, I'd trust the judgement of someone who has actual experience with something about whether that thing is good or not.


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    Re: Who is Gwyn's first born? I think I know....

    Post by JohnnyHarpoon on Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:56 pm

    I suppose, but even if they don't fear Humans, I think it's safe that they would fear the repercussions of a being who possesses all the knowledge/powers of the God of something typically characterized by extreme aggression, social disruption and/or vast death.

    Also, I still think the Gods do fear Humans regardless of what Kaathe says, because they do inherently fear the Dark and humans are inherently dark, because the Dark Soul is Humanity and Humanity = Death, which is a markedly human-and-not-God-like characteristic. This also leads me to believe Kaathe, though I still think it's a matter of perspective (the Gods see the Undead curse as ridding Humans of Humanity, or in other words, granting the mortal immortality).


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    Re: Who is Gwyn's first born? I think I know....

    Post by Shkar on Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:02 pm

    JohnnyHarpoon wrote:I suppose, but even if they don't fear Humans, I think it's safe that they would fear the repercussions of a being who possesses all the knowledge/powers of the God of something typically characterized by extreme aggression, social disruption and/or vast death.

    Also, I still think the Gods do fear Humans regardless of what Kaathe says, because they do inherently fear the Dark and humans are inherently dark, because the Dark Soul is Humanity and Humanity = Death, which is a markedly human-and-not-God-like characteristic. This also leads me to believe Kaathe, though I still think it's a matter of perspective (the Gods see the Undead curse as ridding Humans of Humanity, or in other words, granting the mortal immortality).

    It may not be the dark they fear, but whats in it. Too be quite honest, no person in the game knows what would truly happen if the flame went out, just like nobody knows what would actually happen if the sun went out. Sure, we can get so that we know what we think would happen (and that probably would BE what would happen), but they don't even know THAT. All they can do is speculate, just like we do. For all they/we know, the flame going out would lead to a revert to the old days when there was no life. That is a very SANE thing to fear.


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    Re: Who is Gwyn's first born? I think I know....

    Post by JohnnyHarpoon on Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:16 pm

    I don't see their fears as insane at all - I think it quite logical for the Gods to fear death.

    I just think the Undead Curse was a failed solution to that problem. I believe it is why all the other Gods abandoned Anor Londo - for they did not agree with the means by which their immortality was being ensured, and only Gwyndolin was left to carry on (who does seem to be more Velka-y than Gwyn-y).

    So, if the other Gods saw it as such a terrible/immoral thing that they abandoned Anor Londo, I'd say it's safe to say that 'linking the fire' is the last attempt to keep clinging onto an antiquated way of thinking, regardless of whether or not the consequences for such actions are known.

    In my mind, the atrocity of the curse made the rest of the Gods more afraid than the possibility of not linking the fire.


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    Re: Who is Gwyn's first born? I think I know....

    Post by Shkar on Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:06 pm

    JohnnyHarpoon wrote:I don't see their fears as insane at all - I think it quite logical for the Gods to fear death.

    I just think the Undead Curse was a failed solution to that problem. I believe it is why all the other Gods abandoned Anor Londo - for they did not agree with the means by which their immortality was being ensured, and only Gwyndolin was left to carry on (who does seem to be more Velka-y than Gwyn-y).

    So, if the other Gods saw it as such a terrible/immoral thing that they abandoned Anor Londo, I'd say it's safe to say that 'linking the fire' is the last attempt to keep clinging onto an antiquated way of thinking, regardless of whether or not the consequences for such actions are known.

    In my mind, the atrocity of the curse made the rest of the Gods more afraid than the possibility of not linking the fire.

    The undead curse wasn't an intentional result of linking the flame. Unless they deliberately decided to make it take a thousand (give or take a bit) years to pick up/it needed that long, then it's just a result of the fire dying.


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