The oldest covenant , lore wise

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    ZikoLogiKa NL
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    The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by ZikoLogiKa NL on Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:57 pm

    I've been wondering ,

    since Nito was the first pygmy to consume the flame , or his flame ,

    would that also make it so that the Gravelord Servant covenant was the first of covenants of Lordran to be formed, or does the lore somewhere specifically state otherwise ?


    Last edited by ZikoLogiKa NL on Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:37 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:22 pm

    The Everlasting Dragon is, well, everlasting right?

    Maybe it's the Dragon covenant, although the Gravelords are a solid bet as well.

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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:24 pm

    The stone dragon is not an everlasting dragon.

    So, yeah, I guess Nito's covenant was the first.


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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by Yukon on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:31 pm

    The way that the crestfallen warrior at firelink talks about the dragon covenant makes it sound like it is something that is rather new, or atleast just recently grew in popularity in his time.

    But, in a way all the covenants work around the advent of hollowing ( or atleast I am assming due to the tangled up time distortion, aka invading other worlds/times) .. So its difficult to say which came first.


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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by VinheimProfessor on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:32 pm

    Since Allfather Lloyd is the head of the Way of White Church, and he is Gwyn's uncle, maybe the Way of White is the oldest.


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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:33 pm



    He is definitely called the Everlasting Dragon.

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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:33 pm

    The gravelord may not be first, as its unlikely they existed before Gwyn left to link with the fire. The WoW on the other hand would have been pre-dragon war most likely, or at least formed soon after. Just look at Havel.


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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:34 pm

    @Pendant regardless of name the covenant is relatively new. It would have had to hide for centuries after the war before it could risk revealing itself again.


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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:35 pm

    Pendant, you pray to the Everlasting Dragons, but the one you pray to is a Stone Dragon.

    "This sword, one of the rare dragon weapons, came from the tail of the stone dragon of Ash Lake, descendant of the ancient dragons."
    "Its great mystical power will be unleashed when wielded with two hands."


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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:37 pm

    Eh, I don't really know. I was just saying that that is the sub-text that always appears whenever I talk to that dude.

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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:40 pm

    Joe the stone dragons are the everlasting dragons. The everlasting dragons had stone scales hence the name.


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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:40 pm

    stone dragon of Ash Lake, descendant of the ancient dragons.

    Not the same, mangz.


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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:47 pm

    Descendants of something are that thing. You are descended from humans. The fact its invincible (for now) proves its an everlasting dragon.


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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by Yukon on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:47 pm

    Dough, if the way of the white was made to hunt the undead/hollows how would it have been made after the fall of the dragons?

    If anything I think the Chaos covenant may be the oldest, since I believe the timeline is Dragons, Chaos demons, undead plight, gwyn seeing defeat links the fire. This is the impression I have from the game.. but maybe I got the timeline wrong.


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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:51 pm

    Dough, they're clearly separating the terms Stone Dragon and Everlasting Dragon. They aren't the same. I just can't see them being the same, even though I said they were in my Lore Video. It went right past me until I finished it.


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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:51 pm

    I always took that to mean it is direct lineage from the ancient ones though. Meaning the covenant could be passed to to it too. I think a good question to start would be which leaders in game are likely the founding one, implying they are newer. My guess there is darkmoon, princess guard, gravelord, Forest Hunters are founder ones. However it all goes to Hell because Kaathe probably founded the darkwraiths and he is "primordial"



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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:53 pm

    Ok, lol, had my fun. That assumes the covenant predated humans. I think it did but that's open for debate meaning we're back where we started

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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by RaynexFall on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:53 pm

    i would have to say the everlasting dragons, which are technically the only dragons, discounting drakes, wyverns, and undead. and because of how the lore states that they had scales of stone.

    on another note i'd have to say the chaos servants would have to have been first, if not close to it.


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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:54 pm

    Yukon wrote:Dough, if the way of the white was made to hunt the undead/hollows how would it have been made after the fall of the dragons?

    If anything I think the Chaos covenant may be the oldest, since I believe the timeline is Dragons, Chaos demons, undead plight, gwyn seeing defeat links the fire. This is the impression I have from the game.. but maybe I got the timeline wrong.

    Problem is that it wasn't the witches who started that covenant but rather those eggheads (Engyi)/some dedicated DW's (Kirk) who just started worshiping the Fair Lady after she sucked out the Blightpus.

    So the foundation may have been there, but the intent wasn't as such. It took the devotions of others to create that covenant.

    I'd say it's hard to pin-point its official start as a covy.

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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by Yukon on Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:08 am

    Okay, heres how things break down in my mind..

    ---Dragons are killed perhaps the dragon covenant starts after their destruction, but I assume it occurs later, I honestly do not think their leader was one of the surviving dragons but instead someone seeking immortality like seath or big hat... personally I would place it closer to the wow covenant..
    ---Fighting the chaos demons, possibly the birth of the Chaos servents closely follows their transformation, not sure what the life span of eggheads are.
    ---I assume that Gwyns first born *** up before the hollows.. lets say Sunlight warriors go here.
    ---Undead plight leads to the hunting of hollows... way of white is made
    --- as a counter measure nito makes the gravelords.
    ---Advent of hollows leads to an importance of humanity. Gwyn's knights were fighting darkwraiths
    ---Artorias fell, forest hunters are made
    ---Gwyn leaves to link the fire, Princess guard and Darkmoons are born. Possibly this is also where the gravelords come in, but I think they came instead as a response to the wow covenant.


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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by RaynexFall on Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:12 am

    that actually sounds kind of plausible to me. i mean i don't think Gl's came near last, but it's all still a possibility.


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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by Yukon on Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:15 am

    Personally I think they came after the wow covenant, but someone before mentioned that nito could have gained power with the absence of gwyn, so thats why I mentioned it could have been made at that point.

    I think GL are an older covenant, but probably not the oldest seeing as nito is mostly a neutral leader, I can't see him making a covenant to do anything but protect himself.


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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:16 am

    @Yukon do you have proof the WoW were made to fight the undead? Im pretty sure they were a church group before they hunted undead. I forgot about the sunbro's, they may have been early. The chaos servants may have come early, but I feel like the dragon cov, they wouldve been in hiding a bit before they risked human contact.


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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by Yukon on Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:22 am

    Loyds talisman was my main proof that they hunted hollows, also the covenants reaction, the pendant also mentioned as a gift to hollows is found on a wow member. Many of the miracles are meant for hunting hollows or are meant for "clerics on undead missions", the rite of kindling etc..

    Its less a proof of their establishment to hunt hollows and more of a lack of proof that they had been established before the advent of hollows that convinces me in my mind of their purpose. Its just my opinion.

    edit: also a if it was an established religion before, it would not be considered a covenant I do not think.. but rather a commonly held set of beliefs. it would only have become a covenant when alfather loyd began seeking clerics to hunt the undead.


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    Re: The oldest covenant , lore wise

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:31 am

    You make a good point. So WoW didnt come first. I'd say it was between sunbros and chaos then.


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