Is this what PVP is about?

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    ShahrumbiMahraab

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    Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by ShahrumbiMahraab on Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:14 am

    It seems like people fight fair to an extent, until they know they are being outplayed. So they immedietly pull out their shield and start fishing for backstabs. It's getting rather ridiculous...

    It seems that this is what Dark Souls PvP is all about. Backstabbing. If you don't want to backstab and try to win legitimately, then you're in for a hell of a rough time. Every single person I've encountered has lowered themselves to backstab fishing tonight. Every. Single. Person.

    The thing that gets me is that they have the nerve to bow as if it was an honorable fight after healing and fishing in the BURG.

    I get that backstabbing is part of the game, but to really lower yourself to fishing and using divine blessings when you know you've lost is rather pathetic and frustrating. I honestly don't see how the game can be fun for these people.


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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:16 am

    This is what the game is now. The only options are to get better at counter BSing, dodging or BSing them first. And its true about people starting to fight unfairly once you outclass them. happens to me a lot and its annoying when they're one hit from death and suddenly they run behind some mobs to pop a humanity. Bows have basically lost meaning these days.


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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by RANT on Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:28 am

    yeah, that's pretty much it, there a few guys that never bs and really know how to fight.


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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by bloodpixel on Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:29 am

    Pretty much. It's practically backstab or die out there now.


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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:35 am

    which is why vit build have also become popular to resist this trend, im considering making a anti bs build... it'll have the usual giants armor +mother mask and will use a two handed curved sword (I've made a chain bs fail using the pgs, via the weird lag nick/bs fail thing) any other suggestions?


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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by Carphil on Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:40 am

    A lot of hosts in burg started to chug estus even after bowing. I getting upset, and now I must bring some loyds with me


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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by BLA1NE on Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:37 am

    @Sparkly

    Yeah: try wearing a piece of the thorns set. Since hitting your opponent at the same time as they try to backstab you cancels their bs, the thorns armor will save you from a lot of backstabs when you roll. In addition to regular cautious play and other anti-bs play-styles, the thorns set will drastically reduce the amount of times you get bsed.


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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by Gazman0169 on Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:38 am

    @Shah... No, but as it's a legitimate part of the game, do what I'm currently doing and learn to counter. I absolutely H8 back-stabbing (unless of course I'm the one doing it twisted ), and so I'm going all out to become a counter-back-stabbing master, or at the very least reach a level where I do not get OHK'd after being on top for most of the fight. :roll:

    @BLA1NE- Top tip with wearing the Thorns set, and one that I'm definitely going to try, when I get Kirk's set on this play-through that is. big grin


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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by La0bouchere on Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:03 am

    ShahrumbiMahraab wrote:It seems like people fight fair to an extent, until they know they are being outplayed. So they immedietly pull out their shield and start fishing for backstabs. It's getting rather ridiculous...

    It's actually you leaving yourself open to a backstab, then they punish you for it.

    If you don't want to backstab and try to win legitimately, then you're in for a hell of a rough time.

    If you dont use the best mechanics in a game, then of coarse it will be harder to win.

    The thing that gets me is that they have the nerve to bow as if it was an honorable fight after healing and fishing in the BURG.

    Honor? Stop pretending that people need to play according to how you think the game needs to be played.

    I get that backstabbing is part of the game, but to really lower yourself to fishing and using divine blessings when you know you've lost is rather pathetic and frustrating. I honestly don't see how the game can be fun for these people.

    The game isnt actually that fun playing against 50 people that just walk into backstabs. Also, well Estus and Divine Blessings are borderline game breaking, people often only use them (in the burg at sl 125) when they think that the opponent used some cheap tactic against them.

    Learn to counter them, it takes some practice but isnt that hard, or stop playing if it bothers you so much. Whining about them, and assuming that they're cheap wont do anything except waste time and hinder your progress at improving your play.
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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by Gazman0169 on Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:17 am

    @BLA1NE (or anyone else who's able to answer)- Question. Would you get the same degree of break from a potential back-stab if you wore only one piece of the Thorn Armor set, and does the size of the piece have any bearing?


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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by roanispe on Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:20 am

    Gazman, I believe I have it written down in the "Introduction to PvP", underneath Great Clubs. Chest is the most consistent, then: Legs, Head, Arms.

    EDIT: Oh yes, I disagree vehemently with the outlook portrayed by Shahrumbi. I do not think you can say you outplayed someone if they win, and my own view this entire issue is also outlined in the "Introduction to PvP".


    Last edited by roanispe on Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:28 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:23 am

    @La rather than make a massive quote Ill address your point by numbers
    1. There is a difference between being BSed for a mistake and as the OP said "They pull out a shield and fishing". Your statement has no relevance to what he said.
    2. Its only the best mechanic because of lag, and some people dislike taking advanatage of that.
    3. A while ago bowing meant you would have an honourable fight, no BSing, healing etc. The OP is annoyed that people are taking something that used to mean something and applying a new meaning to it. Your point is of little relevance.
    4. If people are walking it BSes and its boring how about not BSing them? Kick them or something. And remember what you see isnt what they see due to lag, so on their screen they arent walking into a BS.
    5. The OP was asking a question, as made obvious by the title, not just venting. By asking this question they learnt whether or not they need to learn to deal with these tactics. Once again your point has little relevance.


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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by dancash1808 on Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:41 am

    wait a second some parts of thorn armor are more effective than others...? I knew that legs>gloves but I didnt know the negate was scaled too. nice.
    also if someone bows in the burg it does set the tone to a degree. try going with a shield up and fishing and see how long before someone objects if you think honor is not intended.


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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by La0bouchere on Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:52 am

    DoughGuy wrote:@La rather than make a massive quote Ill address your point by numbers
    1. There is a difference between being BSed for a mistake and as the OP said "They pull out a shield and fishing". Your statement has no relevance to what he said.

    Fishing for backstabs is preventable. In other words, you can only get backstabbed if you place yourself in a position that allows it (excluding cases of extreme lag, ie teleporting).

    2. Its only the best mechanic because of lag, and some people dislike taking advanatage of that.

    Lag simply makes any action online harder to anticipate, and effects all actions equally. Players are free to not use backstabs if they wish, however they shouldn't expect everyone to conform to how they want the game to be played.

    3. A while ago bowing meant you would have an honourable fight, no BSing, healing etc. The OP is annoyed that people are taking something that used to mean something and applying a new meaning to it. Your point is of little relevance.

    The problem is people have different conceptions of "honor". The only thing that Bows are used consistently for is indicating the begining of a duel.

    4. If people are walking it BSes and its boring how about not BSing them? Kick them or something. And remember what you see isnt what they see due to lag, so on their screen they arent walking into a BS.

    Its not hard at all to compensate for lag, and as both players are affected, doesnt make back stabs easier for anyone.

    Not bs'ing them would be actively trying to play bad to give my opponent a better chance. Depends what you have more fun doing.

    5. The OP was asking a question, as made obvious by the title, not just venting. By asking this question they learnt whether or not they need to learn to deal with these tactics. Once again your point has little relevance.

    The OP's viewpoint on backstabs is completely clear. Pointing out that my points are pointless when in fact, are very pointed is pointless.
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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by H3adShotty on Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:53 am

    Pretty much the only real thing you can do is NEVER let them get out of your sight, never behind you, the ones with worse connections are harder to deal with.

    Geez... it's been a while since i've been here.


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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:05 am

    1. Yes they are preventable. But you are wrong in saying they are easily preventable. Its easy to roll away when you see an attempt and still get teleported back for a BS.
    2. Lag doesnt make BSing harder. If on my screen I rolled away from them while they wre in fron tof me, and on their screen they were behind me when I away that is lag making the BS easier.
    3. I would say the most common concept of honour is no BSig and no healing, at least it was back when I started.
    4. See my point 2. You apparently missed my point here, since you mentioned BSing people was boring, and I suggested to keep it fun yu try not BSing them. Not BSing them isnt playing bad, its placing a limitation upon yourself to get better, so you dont have to rely on one thing to win fights.
    5. Hi view point on BSes is he doesnt like them and doesnt use them. I fail to see how that invalidates my point. It does nothing of the thing.

    @Roan I can disagree with outplaying someone and then losing. When they heal/run behind mobs/change the rules of the duel midfight (albeit the last can be hard to judge) then it is easy to outclass them in said duel and lose.


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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by dancash1808 on Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:12 am

    Preventable. not easily so. if your fighting to prevent BS its very hard to also play aggressively.
    Lag doesnt make BS harder in most situations. it can make BS easier in some situations because if you are rotating around a point where i was a second ago its very easy to embed my weapon into your back.
    BS'ing is a perfectly natural thing to happen even in a duel. but if you sit there and fish you can expect some pretty pissed off play in response from me.


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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by roanispe on Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:22 am

    Read With a Hint of Sarcasm:




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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by dancash1808 on Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:28 am

    Dammit roan stop defusing my self righteousness with your amusing pictures!
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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by Rynn on Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:08 am

    PvP is about having fun. We've all forgotten this! I no longer feel angry when I get backstabbed, nor ganked. I laugh it off and fight the next opponent, because win or loose, I have a giant sword, and I'm a dangerous warrior.

    It is too easy to get sucked into a competitive nature, just play the game, don't worry yourself to death about winning.
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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:14 am

    The problem Rynn, is it can be hard to have fun when all your matchs involing rolling around trying to avoid BSes and getting what hits you can in.


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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by Rynn on Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:24 am

    DoughGuy wrote:The problem Rynn, is it can be hard to have fun when all your matchs involing rolling around trying to avoid BSes and getting what hits you can in.
    And what Prerogative makes such a match feel cheap? Is it that tactic, or is it that you wished to win the fight, and am now angry at what your opponent performs while trying to stop you from doing that? I found my win rate might have deflated, but the amount of fun I'm having has nearly tripled once I stopped worrying about victory and just played. I don't worry about winning anymore, and the game is now fun again.
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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:27 am

    My enjoyment from pvp comes from match length. The longer a match goes on, the closer it gets and the more I enjoy the battle. of course this applis to fights where damage is being dealt in hits, not BSing. Being on 10% of my hp and 1 hit from death is a much better experience than being on 50% of my hp and 1 BS from death. Its anoying to have to dodge BSing.


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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:27 am

    Rynn wrote:I have a giant sword, and I'm a dangerous warrior.

    Words to live by, my dear Watson.

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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

    Post by Rynn on Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:38 am

    DoughGuy wrote:My enjoyment from pvp comes from match length. The longer a match goes on, the closer it gets and the more I enjoy the battle. of course this applis to fights where damage is being dealt in hits, not BSing. Being on 10% of my hp and 1 hit from death is a much better experience than being on 50% of my hp and 1 BS from death. Its anoying to have to dodge BSing.
    Perhaps it's time to change tactics a bit?
    So, here is what I noticed when I stopped caring.
    Dead Angles are very likely to occur if a player is trying to backstab you. simple fight without lockon, and spam your R1's Backstab users will not get you with a parry. Parry users will not catch the parry unless you went full retard.

    I've found I've had a lot more fun. Light weapons might be fun to use sometimes, but really the msot fun I've had comes from swinging the Greatsword of Artorias, a +15 Zweihander, and a shotel at times c:

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    Re: Is this what PVP is about?

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